POST PLUS - no luck

[buckhunter10]

Ok all I have post plus, I bought 2.5 gallons of it a couple years ago. I have used it to spray a half acre twice, with crop oil.

I sprayed around 2 gallons, believe I followed the label that was 2oz per gallon and .5 oz per gallon of crop oil (whatever the label states it is something similar).

I just havent been able to get a great grass kill - am I doing something wrong? Do I need to just use CLETH? Anyone else have this experience?

 

[Goldentriangle]

I can't really comment on the Post herbicide but I use Cleth for all my grass applications and it works like a charm every time. It does take it awhile to work but it does work.


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[shawn cox]

are you spot spraying with a back pack sprayer. If so the label says use a solution of 1.5-2% of Poast plus and a 1% solution of the crop oil.
if you are using a big tank and boom you have to follow the pints per acre for the poast plus.

 

[FarmerD]

When I was "spraying", Clethodim was my go to. In a tank mix, 10 ounces/acre along with 1 quart of crop oil. See below for hand pumps sprayers. Also a clethodim "kill" will take 3 weeks and when you can pull the center, out of a blade of grass, like this, the grass is dead and just doesn't know it.

 

[Mennoniteman]

For clover plots I suggest that you switch to Clethodim, most guys that have used both preferred Clethodim to Poast. I use AMS in my tank mix to make the active ingredient more potent (always add the AMS to your water first before the herbicide) and have mostly had good results. 25 gallon ATV sprayer, 13' boom nozzles, I generally spray 2 acres with one tank, depending how fast I drive, 4 to 7 mph according to how bad my weed problem is. Mix as follows; 64 oz spray grade AMS & 16 oz of crop oil per 25 gallons of water, then add 10-16 oz Clethodim (Volunteer $23.00 a gallon) per acre for grass control. If I have a lot of broadleaf weeds I will add 4- 6 oz of Thunder (Pursuit/Slay) but at $270 a gallon I am starting to experiment with 2 quarts per acre of Butyrac 200 for broadleaf control in clover, it's only $23.75 a gallon, but there's different opinions about whether it's labeled for clover. Sometimes I will add 2 quarts per acre of AlfaPower MP micronutrient fertilizer to the tank mix as well. I have already added 10 oz. per acre of Powermax for clover but I have burned clover in the past by adding to many things to one tank mix, if you do Powermax it is best to apply it separately. Some guys will have a fit about using 10 oz. of Powermax on clover but it works. Call Daniels farm store 717-656-6982 and get it ups'd for these prices plus shipping.

Note; a lot of guys don't realize that herbicide labels recommend killing weeds at 1-3" tall. If you are trying to kill 2' tall weeds it's not going to work well. If your crop can be mowed like clover for instance, mow the clover high then wait until new grass growth has just started emerging and spray with herbicide, this will get much better results than trying to spray something like mature cattails in seed heads already.
Also, don't spray when it's too hot or cold, the plant leaves close their pores and you have poor results.

 

[dogghr]

^^^^^ Right there is some good advice and accurate amounts and mixtures. I have used in past both Cleth and Sethoxidim/Poast but Cleth is typically cheaper and esier to buy so thats all I use any more. Some might disaggree but I've tried various times of spraying ,and midsummer is almost a waste of time. Best kills will happen early to mid May and second best islate Sept. Summer will give some kill but not nearly as effective for me. Either spray with grass just growing or mow short , allow 2 wks for new growth and then spray. I've also used gly, and it works great but you have to have big cahoonas as the clover looks like it is toast for a while before it bounces back better than ever.

 

[buckhunter10]

HMM

Interesting. I suppose I can continue to try the POST but I will be buying CLETH in the future. I had bought like 2.5 gallons of POST a couple years back and just never had a great kill with it.
I have a 25 gallon tank and I plant to spray next year as the plantings are new this year. This year I think I will just bush hog them and let them get well established. Plenty of time next spring to spray them down.

So a 25 gallon sprayer typically will cover about 2 acres for me as well. Again depending on drive speed.
25 gallons water
20-32oz per tank assuming 2 acre coverage
AMS or Crop oil? Both?
AMS is in a pellet form at Rural King correct or is there a liquid form you all use?

Thank you for help!

 

[dogghr]

Use AMS and crop oil. I sometimes only use crop oil, it is the most important to me. I just bought 2,5 gal of liquid AMS at RK this week. My sprayer is 15 gal/ ac so I put 12-16 oz of Cleth. Add AMS first if you using it and mix good. Crop oil doesn't make much diff. Old timers will swear by few drops of dish soap instead of crop oil.

Ammonium sulfate (AMS) enhances phytotoxicity and overcomes salt antagonism for weak-acid herbicides formulated as a salt including glyphosate, growth regulators (not esters), ACCase inhibitors, ALS inhibitors, HPPD inhibitors, and Liberty. The antagonism may be overcome by increasing the glyphosate concentration relative to the cation content or by adding AMS and some water conditioners to the spray solution. Effective water conditioners include EDTA, citric acid, AMS, and some acidic AMS replacements. Of these, AMS has been the most widely adopted. When added to a spray solution, the ammonium (NH4 +) ion complexes with the glyphosate molecule and reduces glyphosate interaction with the hard-water cations. The sulfate (SO4 2-) ion complexes with the hard-water cations (e.g. calcium sulfate), causing the salt to precipitate from solution. This combined effect increases absorption and efficacy. Natural sulfate in water can be disregarded but can reduce antagonism if the sulfate concentration is at least three times the calcium concentration.

Petroleum oil concentrates generally are used at 2 pt/A or 1 gal/100 gal of spray solution depending on herbicide and adjuvant label. Oil additives increase herbicide absorption and spray retention. Oil adjuvants are petroleum (PO) or methylated vegetable or seed oils (MSO) plus an emulsifier for dispersion in water. The emulsifier, the oil class (petroleum, vegetable, etc.), and the specific type of oil in a class all influence effectiveness of an oil adjuvant. Oil adjuvants enhance POST herbicides more than NIS and are effective with all POST herbicides, except Liberty, and will antagonize glyphosate. The term crop oil concentrate (COC) designates a petroleum based oil but is misleading because the oil type in COC is petroleum and not crop vegetable oil.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I sometimes use Hot MES instead of crop oil, it's the same price and more effective. It's a blend of emulsifiers, surfactants and methylated seed oil for use in maximizing leaf penetration and absorption. Designed to enhance pesticide performance at 50% of the recommended rate of standard (MSO) or (COC), and it also reduces antagonism in Glyphosate tank-mixes, and generally improves the efficacy of a variety of pesticides. Be sure to always add Hot MES or crop oil to the spray mix last.

In answer to your question, use AMS and crop oil. AMS can be liquid or granular. If granular use spray grade only.

I'd suggest spraying it once this summer after mowing to get a head start on your grass kill. Grass will only establish better and suppress your new seeding more if you wait.

 

[buckhunter10]

I sometimes use Hot MES instead of crop oil, it's the same price and more effective. It's a blend of emulsifiers, surfactants and methylated seed oil for use in maximizing leaf penetration and absorption. Designed to enhance pesticide performance at 50% of the recommended rate of standard (MSO) or (COC), and it also reduces antagonism in Glyphosate tank-mixes, and generally improves the efficacy of a variety of pesticides. Be sure to always add Hot MES or crop oil to the spray mix last.

In answer to your question, use AMS and crop oil. AMS can be liquid or granular. If granular use spray grade only.

I'd suggest spraying it once this summer after mowing to get a head start on your grass kill. Grass will only establish better and suppress your new seeding more if you wait.

Unfortunately I am running out of time. Do you think I would have any luck with a kill if I mowed and sprayed the same day?

 

[Mennoniteman]

Yes, that's better than not at all. Spraying in midsummer can have mixed results from great to not so good. Rule of thumb; in hot weather mow clover high, so that you are just barely clipping a few of the tops, because in hot weather it will struggle to grow back if you cut it short. Then spray right away with a grass killer, because the existing grass blades will be very exposed. You won't notice anything for several weeks, but if you have the spray mix at the correct strength per acre after three weeks your grass should be turning yellow to brown. Good luck!

 

[dogghr]

I sometimes use Hot MES instead of crop oil, it's the same price and more effective. It's a blend of emulsifiers, surfactants and methylated seed oil for use in maximizing leaf penetration and absorption. Designed to enhance pesticide performance at 50% of the recommended rate of standard (MSO) or (COC), and it also reduces antagonism in Glyphosate tank-mixes, and generally improves the efficacy of a variety of pesticides. Be sure to always add Hot MES or crop oil to the spray mix last.

In answer to your question, use AMS and crop oil. AMS can be liquid or granular. If granular use spray grade only.

I'd suggest spraying it once this summer after mowing to get a head start on your grass kill. Grass will only establish better and suppress your new seeding more if you wait.

The chit you learn on here is amazing. Guess I'll go buy some Hot MES that I've never used. Hope they don't misunderstand and send me home with a hot stripper/hot Miss!!

 

[Mennoniteman]

The chit you learn on here is amazing. Guess I'll go buy some Hot MES that I've never used. Hope they don't misunderstand and send me home with a hot stripper/hot Miss!!

My supplier was out of crop oil which made me unhappy with him. Then he asked me why I'm using crop oil anyway, since Hot Mes is a better product for the same price. So, I stumbled on it by accident, if he hadn't been out of crop oil I'd still be using it.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Ok all I have post plus, I bought 2.5 gallons of it a couple years ago. I have used it to spray a half acre twice, with crop oil.

I sprayed around 2 gallons, believe I followed the label that was 2oz per gallon and .5 oz per gallon of crop oil (whatever the label states it is something similar).

I just havent been able to get a great grass kill - am I doing something wrong? Do I need to just use CLETH? Anyone else have this experience?

BTW, you didn't let that stuff freeze did you? You can freeze roundup but a lot of other herbicides coagulate when they freeze and don't work well after that.

 

[buckhunter10]

BTW, you didn't let that stuff freeze did you? You can freeze roundup but a lot of other herbicides coagulate when they freeze and don't work well after that.

No sir. This has always been stored in a cool dry place.

 

[X-farmerdan]

Ok all I have post plus, I bought 2.5 gallons of it a couple years ago. I have used it to spray a half acre twice, with crop oil.

I sprayed around 2 gallons, believe I followed the label that was 2oz per gallon and .5 oz per gallon of crop oil (whatever the label states it is something similar).

I just havent been able to get a great grass kill - am I doing something wrong? Do I need to just use CLETH? Anyone else have this experience?

I'm going to propose something here and I can find no evidence that what I'm about to say has any merit.

Clethodim and sethoxdim (Poast) are in the same family of chemicals, cyclohexenones. The literature finds them virtually indistinguishable. A gallon of 18% Poast contains 1.5 pounds of sethoxidim. A gallon of 26.4% clethodim contains 2.0 lbs of active, concentrated ingredient per gallon.

And, am I hearing correctly we are using ounces of Poast and quarts of clethodim? Then we wonder why cleth works better than seth?
I didn't re-read either of the labels and will let you take it to a logical or illogical conclusion. Remember, one is a generic and so far as I know the other is still under patent. Yes? No?

I have to add a P.S. >> I think you all are way over infatuated with all the additives. If you don't have your herbicide concentrations right and in proportion to the need spray volume to cover the mass of plant material needing killed, ain't nothing going to happen - except for your crop oil to burn the daylights out of everything.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I'm going to propose something here and I can find no evidence that what I'm about to say has any merit.

Clethodim and sethoxdim (Poast) are in the same family of chemicals, cyclohexenones. The literature finds them virtually indistinguishable. A gallon of 18% Poast contains 1.5 pounds of sethoxidim. A gallon of 26.4% clethodim contains 2.0 lbs of active, concentrated ingredient per gallon.

And, am I hearing correctly we are using ounces of Poast and quarts of clethodim? Then we wonder why cleth works better than seth?
I didn't re-read either of the labels and will let you take it to a logical or illogical conclusion. Remember, one is a generic and so far as I know the other is still under patent. Yes? No?

I have to add a P.S. >> I think you all are way over infatuated with all the additives. If you don't have your herbicide concentrations right and in proportion to the need spray volume to cover the mass of plant material needing killed, ain't nothing going to happen - except for your crop oil to burn the daylights out of everything.

I'm absolutely infatuated with additives. If you do your online research and your own hands-on testing with accurate record keeping like I have you will also discover that you can get the same results while using less active ingredient when using the correct additives and mix them in the correct order (recommended by the manufacturer). When is using less of a hazardous and expensive chemical not a good thing? During my testing I badly burned a clover field by not reducing my active ingredient to the correct amount in correlation to the additives I had added. The two main additives are AMS and crop oil, both which are cheap and relatively harmless. Oh yes, to real farmers additives are a big deal.

 

[X-farmerdan]

I'm absolutely infatuated with additives. If you do your online research and your own hands-on testing with accurate record keeping like I have you will also discover that you can get the same results while using less active ingredient when using the correct additives and mix them in the correct order (recommended by the manufacturer). When is using less of a hazardous and expensive chemical not a good thing? During my testing I badly burned a clover field by not reducing my active ingredient to the correct amount in correlation to the additives I had added. The two main additives are AMS and crop oil, both which are cheap and relatively harmless. Oh yes, to real farmers additives are a big deal.

Your right. Well said.

 

[shawn cox]

I sometimes use Hot MES instead of crop oil, it's the same price and more effective. It's a blend of emulsifiers, surfactants and methylated seed oil for use in maximizing leaf penetration and absorption. Designed to enhance pesticide performance at 50% of the recommended rate of standard (MSO) or (COC), and it also reduces antagonism in Glyphosate tank-mixes, and generally improves the efficacy of a variety of pesticides. Be sure to always add Hot MES or crop oil to the spray mix last.

In answer to your question, use AMS and crop oil. AMS can be liquid or granular. If granular use spray grade only.

I'd suggest spraying it once this summer after mowing to get a head start on your grass kill. Grass will only establish better and suppress your new seeding more if you wait.

yes Hot MES is great. I always use it now. My cleth that I used with it looked like it worked as fast as Gly.

 

[shawn cox]

The chit you learn on here is amazing. Guess I'll go buy some Hot MES that I've never used. Hope they don't misunderstand and send me home with a hot stripper/hot Miss!!

Try it you won't be disappointed.