KSQ2
Well-Known Member
I used to add gly to our clethodim and it worked great. Since adding hairy vetch and chicory to our annual fall throw and mow though, we can no longer use gly.
Now is the Time for Clover Plot Maintenance
- Thread starter Mennoniteman
- Start date
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I've had great success with this mix, and guys will holler foul for using this light dose on clover, but glyphosate is actually labeled for 16 oz per acre for uses like this.
However, I had one plot with clumps of grass that was very stubborn in resisting this mix for several years. Last summer I switched it up and hit it with 16oz of clethodim, and it cleaned it up with several weeks. My point is, if weeds are stubborn, often switching herbicides makes a huge difference.
P.S. I forget what all I posted already as to spraying clover, my bad if I'm repeating myself.
I never noticed that fact in the label. Upon closer inspection, it does mention it can be applied overtop clover for "renovation". This is from the brand name book. I'm assuming the generic label isn't as complete.
Roundup Original Product Label (pestlogbook.com)
Renovation USE INSTRUCTIONS: This product may be applied as a broadcast spray to renovate existing stands of alfalfa, clover, and other labeled forage legumes. If the crop is to be grazed or harvested for feed, use up to 2 quarts per acre in alfalfa and up to 3 pints per acre in other labeled legumes. For complete removal of established stands of clover, it may be necessary to use the higher treatment rates listed in the “PERENNIAL WEEDS RATE TABLE” in this label booklet.
I did spray with clethodim last year, but it didn't work nearly as well as I'd hoped. The grass was likely too tall. We also have a few problem spots on the edges of some small plots. The edges are wet, and the grass there tends to be stubborn.
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Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
When the grass is too tall or in established clumps it is necessary to mow first. If the thatch is too thick it's best to wait a week after mowing to spray.
Yeah. When you don't live at camp, and get there infrequently, you just have to go with best effort and wish for the best.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
My March 25th oats that I drilled into existing clover for food plot maintenance are up nicely on April 30th.A rite of spring; March 25th, out on the tractor no-tilling 100 lb oats per acre into my existing clover plots. Last year I sprayed herbicide for grass on the clover plots in the early spring, so this year I'm skipping that step because I killed most of the early grasses last year, but I do have a bit of cattails and other late season grasses, so this year I will move my seasonal spray to late summer for these late season grasses, sometime after the oats mature. I'll probably let the oats ripen and the turkeys and deer will eat the seed heads. A little known fact is that deer love eating oat heads.
Last fall I drilled oats into this clover, which winterkilled, the remnants of those oats can be seen in the picture. The fall oats and clover combo was a huge hit with the deer, but I'm still asking myself why I didn't drill fall rye instead, because I wouldn't need to be out here drilling oats right now, because the rye would still be growing. As I recall, it had something to do with price and availability...
I also threw a bag of Regal Graze clover into the small seed box, set at 4 lb per acre, just as insurance to keep my clover plots in good population.
Notes: broadcasting these oats would take 200 lb per acre, when drilling, every seed grows, when broadcasting, half the seeds grow.
Also, as you can see by the soil on the closing wheels, it was a bit wet, to wet to plant corn, but early oats will do just fine in this moisture.
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
That is cool as hell! There's a definite advantage to drilling oats. I've tried many times broadcasting, and it's a coin flip if it ever works.
KSQ2
Well-Known Member
Looks great!! I have a buddy who purchased a no-till drill last winter for tax purposes. He’s storing it in our barn and said I could use it whenever. But he hasn’t used it yet and I’m not going to be the one to “break it in” after he dropped some major cash getting it. Next spring though look out!! Barley and oats will be put in at the Massey for sure!!
My March 25th oats that I drilled into existing clover for food plot maintenance are up nicely on April 30th.
That looks great MM!
Added the 1q of glyphosate/acre to our usual Imox/nitrosurf/surfactant regimen per MM's suggestion. It made a significant difference over just the Imox, significantly wiping out the pesky grasses. It did stunt the clover some, but it's about ready to take off now(3 weeks later), and the results will likely be significantly better than previous years.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Getting good results from adding 16oz of gly with the imox or cleth hinges on doing the application only during periods of strong growth, ie. spring or late summer/early fall. This is when the clover quickly shakes off the effects of the chemical, and the weeds are the most susceptible to it. In hot dry weather weeds are semi-dormant and difficult to kill, and clover is very fragile.
If weeds are taller than 3" it's a good idea to mow before spraying.
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
Mennoniteman, how are those oats looking? Will you let them go all the way to seed and mow them down? What comes next after drilling? I think that's cool as hell you can get oats up in your clover like that. I'd love to be able to punch in a high mass forage oat in the spring.
I was out looking for my rye residue last week, and it's about gone already. Need more duff.
I was out looking for my rye residue last week, and it's about gone already. Need more duff.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I will let the oats go into seed heads to feed deer, birds, and turkeys. At that stage I will spray clethodim or imazethapyr, then on Labor day I will drill rye and mow the clover after drilling. The quality of feed makes these plots a destination plot for deer year round. The doe groups eating in these plots seem to have everything they need, they bed right beside the the plots, feed every morning and evening, and I never observe them leaving the area for other food sources.
jlane35
Well-Known Member
I can’t remember, do you alternate rye and oats every other year? Or will you terminate the rye early next Spring to plant oats again?
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I always primarily rely on planting fall rye into clover, and then always let it grow to maturity in the spring for fawning cover, straw, and grain for wildlife food. Since rye can't be planted in the spring oats is a bandaid fill-in in the spring if I have a plot that I don't have my normal fall planted rye coming in the clover for reasons such as; there was no rye seed available the fall before, or the available seed was too expensive, or, I had enough of acres in rye and didn't plant it in all my clover, or, I just plain down forgot and neglected to plant fall rye in a particular plot.
Bin run oats is my year round go-to whenever I'm baffled with what to plant next if I don't want an empty field. The cost of bin-run oats is so cheap that the nutrient benefits of the oats make buying oat seed cheaper than buying fertilizer.
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
That's my fallback too. I figure the broadleaves that hitch a ride in bin run are bonuses. Couple weeks back I got 50lb sacks for $14. I thought that was pretty good.
Out of curiosity, why can't you spring plant rye?
George
Well-Known Member
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
As George noted, after fall planting and germinating, rye needs to go through a cold spell (winter) going through a process called Vernalization and Photoperiodism before it can flower. If rye is spring planted it will pop right up, but then it stays stunted and never really grows much, eventually maybe reaching a height of a foot or so, sometimes with a small seed head, sometimes not. Don't feel bad not knowing this,, my dad explained this to me when I was ten, but I had forgotten by the time I was forty, so I learned the hard way all over again.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
4 years ago a locally renowned forester told me that I have the nicest plot of Ladino Clover that he has ever seen. My heart was filled with pride, and I decided that growing clover was the easiest plot species that there is. In fact, growing clover was so easy that I just totally stopped buying fertilizer for several plots, since it seemed like a waste of money if clover is such an easy crop to grow. My thought process followed a popular food plot myth that no crop is being removed from a food plot because the deer are replacing the nutrients they consume with deer droppings.
However, after 3 full years of growing those clover plots without fertilizer I have been brought to my knees and humbled in the worst way possible. After three years of no fertilizer, what was my best number one award winning clover plot before, is a total failure now, even though I have applied my best efforts to keep it alive, other than applying fertilizer of course, since I was doing this as a test to see if fertilizer is really necessary, and how long I can keep clover going without fertilizer, and I admit that I was totally convinced that i could keep these plots going indefinitely without applying any fertilizer.
Well, the end result has come in. In spite of my best efforts, this plot is totally up in weeds with very little clover. So I have to admit that I will have to change my philosophy on growing clover, since, on the first post of this thread I stated: fertilizer for clover is important, but not my top priority. (edited now to say top priority)
My new philosophy for growing clover reads like this: #1; Anyone can grow clover if they have 0-20-20 fertilizer.
#2; Even expert farmers will have difficulty growing clover if they don't have 0-20-20 fertilizer.
I have over a dozen clover plots on 5 different properties in 3 different counties, and I only did the no fertilizer experiment on some of them, and there is a clear pattern of connection between the lack of fertilizer application and the planted clover fading out.
I tried alternating multiple different herbicides, but the weeds still took over. Out of desperation to get ahead of the weeds and save the one plot I tank mixed several clover herbicides together, and killed everything! I frost seeded and interseeded fresh seed, but the bare spots persisted.
I drilled small grains into the plots to scavenge nutrients and smother weeds. This actually worked to a degree on one plot and shows a lot of potential, but it needs to be very intensive, done at least twice a year, and the failed plots were only seeded with grain once a year or less. I don't think that seeding small grain into clover can be a total replacement for fertilizer, but I believe it can be a valuable tool to reduce the amount of fertilizer needed, and the cost of the small grain seeding can be recouped in the dollar value of the fertilizer savings, plus getting the soil building properties and wildlife feeding values of the grain for free as a bonus.
So, along with a yearly dose of herbicide, lime to keep the ph around 6.8, and a twice a summer mowing, 200-400 lb per acre of 0-20-20 fertilizer (or whatever the soil tests call for) is VERY important to have a good stand of clover.
In the attached picture below there are three beautiful gobblers, standing on an ugly plot with no clover. This is still prime turkey habitat, but there's very little here for a deer, and the deer voiced their displeasure to me by going elsewhere for lunch. So, by default of no grazing vs intensive grazing when my plot was good, fertilizer does have a direct input in growing big antlers.
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However, after 3 full years of growing those clover plots without fertilizer I have been brought to my knees and humbled in the worst way possible. After three years of no fertilizer, what was my best number one award winning clover plot before, is a total failure now, even though I have applied my best efforts to keep it alive, other than applying fertilizer of course, since I was doing this as a test to see if fertilizer is really necessary, and how long I can keep clover going without fertilizer, and I admit that I was totally convinced that i could keep these plots going indefinitely without applying any fertilizer.
Well, the end result has come in. In spite of my best efforts, this plot is totally up in weeds with very little clover. So I have to admit that I will have to change my philosophy on growing clover, since, on the first post of this thread I stated: fertilizer for clover is important, but not my top priority. (edited now to say top priority)
My new philosophy for growing clover reads like this: #1; Anyone can grow clover if they have 0-20-20 fertilizer.
#2; Even expert farmers will have difficulty growing clover if they don't have 0-20-20 fertilizer.
I have over a dozen clover plots on 5 different properties in 3 different counties, and I only did the no fertilizer experiment on some of them, and there is a clear pattern of connection between the lack of fertilizer application and the planted clover fading out.
I tried alternating multiple different herbicides, but the weeds still took over. Out of desperation to get ahead of the weeds and save the one plot I tank mixed several clover herbicides together, and killed everything! I frost seeded and interseeded fresh seed, but the bare spots persisted.
I drilled small grains into the plots to scavenge nutrients and smother weeds. This actually worked to a degree on one plot and shows a lot of potential, but it needs to be very intensive, done at least twice a year, and the failed plots were only seeded with grain once a year or less. I don't think that seeding small grain into clover can be a total replacement for fertilizer, but I believe it can be a valuable tool to reduce the amount of fertilizer needed, and the cost of the small grain seeding can be recouped in the dollar value of the fertilizer savings, plus getting the soil building properties and wildlife feeding values of the grain for free as a bonus.
So, along with a yearly dose of herbicide, lime to keep the ph around 6.8, and a twice a summer mowing, 200-400 lb per acre of 0-20-20 fertilizer (or whatever the soil tests call for) is VERY important to have a good stand of clover.
In the attached picture below there are three beautiful gobblers, standing on an ugly plot with no clover. This is still prime turkey habitat, but there's very little here for a deer, and the deer voiced their displeasure to me by going elsewhere for lunch. So, by default of no grazing vs intensive grazing when my plot was good, fertilizer does have a direct input in growing big antlers.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
