pinetag
Well-Known Member
Definitely! As much as I like the visibility of mature timber for hunting, I actually prefer the “messy” look even more because I know the wildlife will be there.
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Pinetag's Plot - 43 acres in Virginia
- Thread starter pinetag
- Start date
Definitely! As much as I like the visibility of mature timber for hunting, I actually prefer the “messy” look even more because I know the wildlife will be there.
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
When I way young, I hated pines and clear-cuts. Pines seemed like deserts to me with little wildlife using it. Clear-cuts were thick and you couldn't see any distance at all. I loved hardwoods. They were beautiful, you could watch birds, squirrels and were used by deer for acorns in the fall. When I got to the point where I was looking for land, I was always excited when I found a candidate that was hardwoods. As it turned out, I ended up going in with other folks and buying a pine farm.
As I learned more and more about habitat, I found pines are a great resource. With proper timber management keeping different management areas in different stages of succession, you can benefit wildlife and create great hunting for deer, turkey, and other species. Food plots and most other management tools require on-going cost and time but are a important parts of a management plan. Pine timber management generates revenue and has a much larger positive impact on wildlife because of the scale.
I've evolved over the years from a 2-bottom plow and tiller with high inputs of commercial fertilizer to no-till. My clover plots have gone from magazine cover monocultures with regular spraying and mowing to a mix of clover and weeds. In the summer you wouldn't even know it was a clover plot if you did not get on your hands an knees. I haven't used fertilizer in about 7 years. Deer are using my ugly plots more than ever. And we are supporting more deer and turkey than ever. Prescribed fire has been an important tool in timber management. Our land is not producing much more native quality foods than ever.
It was a long, slow evolution for me. It is hard for man to accept messy versus groomed. Keep up the good work!
pinetag
Well-Known Member
You guys sped up the learning curve for me. Without forums like this, all the various podcasts, books, and YouTube videos available, I would probably still be of the mentality that open hardwoods and manicured food plots were the only way to go. As it is I have created a diverse mix of habitat types. I have an 8 acre cutover on my lower 20, a couple of small man-made bedding pockets on my northern 20, and a few micro plots strategically positioned throughout. Like your plots, all of mine are no-till with weeds, but the wildlife use them consistently. The creek and river that first attracted me to the property just add to the diversity.
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Yes, I love creek bottoms. We have several riparian buffers that are largely white oak. My camera system has taught me a lot. My cams are wireless with solar and run 24/7/365. I have many cameras throughout the property including in some of these hardwood buffers. I have found that I get fewer overall pictures in the hardwoods. I get a flurry of activity when acorns fall and then very little activity through the rest of the year. These creek bottoms are a key for turkey. We have good nesting and brooding habitat near by. Turkey use all of the property, but in the spring, gobblers love to roost on the hillsides where their gobbling echoes through these bottoms.
With these creeks, I never have to worry about a lack of water. I know that in some places guys have to create water holes to hold game.
weekender21
Well-Known Member
A few nice ones!
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Yes, but is shows the potential this property has with 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 year old deer in these pics.
pinetag
Well-Known Member
Here is a different angle with one ear extended and I’m guessing he’s about 15”. Probably get a pass this year
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pinetag
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure the one in the top pic and the two in the bottom pic are 3.5, but the others are likely 2.5. The buck in the background of the bottom pic had the exact same rack last year. I thought he was just busted up on his right side from fighting, but it is growing exactly the same way this year.
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I'm in central VA as well. Our target for experienced hunters is 3 1/2 and older on our place. We have been in DMAP since about 2006 so all our jawbones are aged. In the early years we killed quite a few 2 1/2 year old bucks by mistake thinking they were older. Field judging can be tough. We have found the best rack differentiator is mass. That is hard to judge in velvet. We can have 2 deer with similar width and height racks, one being 2 1/2 and the other being 3 1/2 with the only difference being mass.
I have also hunted some spots in VA where some older deer have narrow but tall racks with mass. You could be right about age. It doesn't take a lot of distance between properties to show a difference. I'd recommend getting into DMAP if you are not, or at least pulling jawbones from the bucks you harvest and have them aged.
I have also hunted some spots in VA where some older deer have narrow but tall racks with mass. You could be right about age. It doesn't take a lot of distance between properties to show a difference. I'd recommend getting into DMAP if you are not, or at least pulling jawbones from the bucks you harvest and have them aged.
pinetag
Well-Known Member
Yea, using jawbones is for sure the way to go to get a good age estimate. I actually did my internship with the game dept (many years ago) and aging jaw bones was a part of it, which is why I say estimate. Even the biologists said it was not exact as there are multiple factors that can affect tooth wear. I was surprised at how many decent bucks were aged at only 2.5 at the time of kill though.
My age conclusions from these pics are solely based on the past few years of camera observations for my area. I would be happy with any 3.5+ buck!!
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Yes, aging jawbones is as much art as it is science. Probably the biggest factor in tooth wear is diet. I think when you've seen enough jawbones from the same area over time, you get better at age estimation. It is clearly an estimate. I've seen some studies. Experienced jawbone readers are pretty accurate up to about 3 1/2. Beyond that, accuracy drops off quickly.
pinetag
Well-Known Member
I’ve been working on fall preparations as the VA season is right around the corner. I sprayed and seeded my plots and cutover trail, I set up my poor man’s elevated blind (with flooring), I hung some mock scrapes, and am currently cleaning up access trails and moving a couple stands.
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I'm doing my fall plant this week as well in central VA. I have a glass tractor cab and the design of the AC was so bad and cost so much to replace compressors that I finally had them take it out. So with our highs this week, I'm only able to work early in the mornings. Nice bucks.
pinetag
Well-Known Member
I hear ya. I was gonna take this Fri off to do some more work, but changed my mind when I saw the forecast for the week. Next week is looking more promising though.
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I braved the heat this week and finished my fall plant. It has been fairly dry lately. It looks like there are chances of rain for the next week. Hopefully we'll get rain at least one of those days.
pinetag
Well-Known Member
Good deal! Cooler temps and rain are predicted for this weekend/next week (little faith in meteorologists though). I was watching the radar last night and every little storm cell that was headed toward my property just fell apart before it got there. Hopefully the rains come soon! I might do some additional seeding in a week or two (including rye for insurance).
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I have about 24 hours of faith in meteorologists. Beyond that, I trust them about as much as a psychic. If you don't live at your property, I find this site much more useful: https://water.weather.gov/precip/ While it doesn't predict anything, I find it pretty accurate. Looking back for a week or so gives me clues about my soil moisture without traveling to the farm.
