Upstate Obsession

[Elkaddict]

To help keep the cameras around check out cam lock boxes. Pretty cheap insurance and they make them for just about every camera out there. You can lag screw them to the tree and lock the cameras in the metal boxes. I use treated deck screws with extra large heads on them. Even if they see the camera they wont be able to get them out.

I have 8 of the lock boxes which are located where most of the trespassers come in. The problem is with all the cameras we have it slows things down too much. It's a trade off..... We haven't had a cameras stolen this far into the interiour in several years. They'll be hell to pay when I catch the perps. We set up a number of camera traps...none of which were messed with.

 

[Elkaddict]

Dave, I hadn't thought about the apple angel. We only have a 1/10th of your apples but the argument is the same. I need to come up with a day lilly equivalent.... I've had mixed feelings about our local DEC. They've been woefully slow responding to trespassing complaints and multiple calls still took 3 weeks to get a response. Troopers on the other hand have been very responsive.

Do you know if nuisance permits are given for turkeys? I'd guess the 60 I've had in my corn/beans and really done a number on the grain.

No My experience is not different. The DEC does not give permits for crops meant to feed deer. I did receive nuisance tags the one time I "applied" and that was for deer eating my daylilies. The deer actually picked out the single, one of a kind best daylily I have ever produced in years of hybridizing(the only one in the world); it was the top plant out of 200,000 plus seedlings and they destroyed it, destroying the culmination of years of work at the same time. My bad--should have had that plant separately fenced and protected like Fort Knox rather than just the double perimeter electric fence. I didn't kill any deer with that permit but it allowed me to legally sleep in the garden with my rifle and scare the daylights out of them when ever one dared to step ft. in the garden. A couple of days of that did it for that year once the farmers crops germinated and drew them away from the daylilies.

Actually though I was referring to the DMAP tags which are given when deer are over populating a property and doing damage to crops grown for agricultural purposes ie; resale and/or people/animal consumption. My property meets three criteria for that with any one of them being ample to fit the program. I have found the DEC to be a huge help in managing our property in many ways. Regarding doe tags, here are the reasons we qualify.

1. The two thousand plus wild apple trees we released were released to save the apple trees and encourage apple production. While it does benefit the deer and our hunting, the core reason for releasing them is to have apples for cider making during ample apple years. Wild apples actually can make way better ciders than commercial varieties can. And I plan on being a direct user of the apples for making cider for resale. And we also eat them day and night and every day we can. The apples are an important product of this property for us.

2. My daylily garden though I enjoy it also fits the Ag requirements definition. It is a Plant hybridizing operation intending to show a profit. We have taken every reasonable effort to keep the deer out (including double electric fencing) but still when the deer population is too high on this property there are breaches in our efforts to keep them away from the daylily plants.

3. We rent forty acres of tillable to a dairy farmer who grows crops to help feed his herd. Renting land to a viable AG business for growing crops to feed cows and experiencing unacceptable deer damage to said crops also qualifies property for the DMAP program.

There are many other reasons to be included in the DMAP but these are the ones that apply to us. It is important to note that they are not loop holes in the system but are some of the reasons for the system. We do not abuse the privilege it affords us but simply use it to keep the deer population on this property in line within a tolerable amount of deer damage to our various enterprises. Some years the winters control the population for us but surprisingly not so often as one would think.

 

[Chainsaw]

Dave, I hadn't thought about the apple angel. We only have a 1/10th of your apples but the argument is the same. I need to come up with a day lilly equivalent.... I've had mixed feelings about our local DEC. They've been woefully slow responding to trespassing complaints and multiple calls still took 3 weeks to get a response. Troopers on the other hand have been very responsive.

Do you know if nuisance permits are given for turkeys? I'd guess the 60 I've had in my corn/beans and really done a number on the grain.

A big no on the turkeys. They will help you document the problem but I don't see anything else they do on it. Be careful not to judge the DMAP program by the local DEC response you may be getting. The DMAP program is run by wildlife specialists that have specific goals. I've found them to be very helpful. You don't contact your local DEC for the program.

The trespassing response is specific to particular DEC officers. Here they take it very seriously. Definitely the state police do as well.

 

[farmhunter]

enjoyed reading your recent posts. We've been able to keep on our does without any DMAP application. Its taken years to get our family and friends to enjoy taking does over little bucks - but most have now. We DO however have too much pressure to consistently see the older bucks - with all our hunters coming and going - especially in gun season. Our core group hunts with bow, blackpowder and rifle. Since DEC let us sign over Doe tags a few years back - we have no problem taking as many does as we have a use for.

It is amazing what kind of weather these deer will live through - and with available food - thrive even. The weather isn't a problem for them if food is available. I found a very small dead fawn on my corn/beans field edge this week - no doubt the coyotes know where the deer are right now as well. If not for a back bone, skull and a patch of hide -i'd not even noticed it.

 

[Elkaddict]

Quick Update: got back up to our place after 3 weeks. After checking the complex nearest the house (6 acres of corn/beans, brassicas and grain/clover), I was alarmed to not see a single deer track in the snow. As I walked towards our next plot complex, I did note the browse showed little use. Here is picture of what remains of a brassica plot in the first complex.

 

[Elkaddict]

As I approached our next plot complex (6 + acres of corn/beans, brassicas and grain/clover), I was apprehensive about the health of our herd given the declining food and cold weather. To my delight, there were 27 deer in the plot digging for rutabagas and turnips! They were so intent on eating, none had noticed my approach. After looking them over, it was clear most of the bucks had dropped their antlers, and the herd looked healthy. While the deer are in good shape today, our green up doesn’t start most years until late April. I’m crossing my fingers we get lucky and avoid heavy snows. I’m also adjusting my plans to up my brassica planting’s from the present 5+ acres to 7. This will be in addition to 4+ acres of corn/ beans.

 

[Chainsaw]

View attachment 11111 View attachment 11110 As I approached our next plot complex (6 + acres of corn/beans, brassicas and grain/clover), I was apprehensive about the health of our herd given the declining food and cold weather. To my delight, there were 27 deer in the plot digging for rutabagas and turnips! They were so intent on eating, none had noticed my approach. After looking them over, it was clear most of the bucks had dropped their antlers, and the herd looked healthy. While the deer are in good shape today, our green up doesn’t start most years until late April. I’m crossing my fingers we get lucky and avoid heavy snows. I’m also adjusting my plans to up my brassica planting’s from the present 5+ acres to 7. This will be in addition to 4+ acres of corn/ beans.

Great report Tom. Your first picture had me worried; the back of the second picture was a welcome sight. Winter has returned here after a two week vacation. The deer look good but we are still on pins and needles. Luckily here we have some south slope rye patches that kick in pretty early with a little weather break. I will continue the beans also but will add to the turnip patch as well next year.

 

[Elkaddict]

Dave, our last forecast suggest 18” of snow this week and continued colder than normal temps. If I can break through the drifts with the front end loader, I’ll fire up the chainsaw and put a couple dozen treetops within reach.

 

[Chainsaw]

Sounds like a good idea; this is optimum tree dropping time for the deer on both of our properties for sure. There aren't many trees if cut now that they wouldn't benefit from. I like to use the poplars this time of year for many reasons. The driving reason though is in deep snow I've always felt a bit vulnerable to cutting trees as there is the problem of having adequately safe escape paths for when the tree begins to fall. With the poplars I just hinge cut them halfway or so and walk away; on the first or second wind they all come down and maybe half of them stay connected, even the larger ones on this property(note larger ones here are eight to twelve inches DBH).

If you haven't hinged poplars before, use the leans to determine their likely eventual fall but skip the ones that lean too much as they are just too unpredictable as to when they will split and barber chair (cutting even halfway on those heavy leaners can even be too much). Poplars are heavy splitters when hinged so it is best to not be in close proximity to them when they fall . Of course they can dropped conventionally with better control but then we lose the advantage of some of the future browse and cover the fallen tree provides and protects.

Stay safe..

 

[Elkaddict]

Time for a brief update. We made it up for the long weekend. I was surprised to see our south facing plots were largely snow free so spent some time in the Brassica plots looking for sheds. After 3 passes through, I came across 5 sheds. I’d passed each of these bucks multiple times and looking forward to seeing them in another year. Interestingly, as in past years, they were found in the Rutabagas/Winfred and not the LC or GRO plots. My continued search for additional sheds will have to wait as we got 6” of snow last night.

 

[Elkaddict]

I was able walk all over the property and am quite upbeat about all browse that is available to sustain the deer. Trail cams show some fat healthy critters including a large bodied buck who looks to be in outstanding condition. These deer are digging for clover.

 

[Elkaddict]

Always look forward to predator photos to add spice to pulling cards.

 

[farmhunter]

Nice updates!! And congratulations on finding the three buck sheds you passed on. They will be great motivators for next season. This February thaw will go a long ways to getting all out deer trough March. I know we don’t have an ounce of extra food on our property this winter - curious to see if the deer target the rye when it melts off this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Deer Hunter Forum

 

[Matt Galati]

I find on all three properties we plant food plots on the mixes that have included Winfred brassica and rutabaga have outdrawn all of the other forages planted on our property from july to today...

 

[Elkaddict]

That combo is a rockstar. I have to thank Nutritionist for the recommendation.

 

[Matt Galati]

My favorite mix of his is Fall Draw, its Winfred rutabaga with a heavy portion of annual clovers. I saw a lot of buck activity for some reason in his fall draw plots from august on...

 

[Elkaddict]

If GRO would market a 50/50 mix of Rutabags/Winfred, they’d sell a bunch. While I’ll still plant other brassica mixes to provide variety, this will continue to make up the bulk of my brassica planting’s. I’ve got 6+ acres in clover mixes so I don’t need more. In any event, I feel like a perennial clover would make more sense if shit happens and you can’t replant the field the following spring. Perhaps I don’t appreciate the draw of annual clovers (I’ve never tried them). Thoughts?

 

[Matt Galati]

You'd be hard to get John to advise planting only two forages in any one mix. With so many different factors that mother nature throws there way John likes to blend mixes together that will both compliment eachother and improve the likelihood of plot success.

You know better than anyone else with your buffet that deers palate changes throughout the year. Like LC taught us all variety is key. But john doesn't only blend to accommodate the ever changing pallete of a deer but he mixes forages to improve the likelihood of plot success. Maybe we have a dry year, maybe we have a wet year. Maybe a quarter of the plot is more shady than the rest.

the annual clovers grow much more rapidly then the perennial clovers. The big tops of rutabaga / Winfred would shade out the slow starting perennial clovers before they could ever take off. The annual clovers act as a nurse crop, relieve browse pressure off of the establishing Winfred and also fixate nitrogen in the soil to help the plant thrive. Lastly, frosty berseem, balansa and crimson clover have great cold tolerance.

This past year on the same property I planted 1 acre of fall draw and 2 acres of rutabaga / Winfred mix (50/50), the one fall draw had more pictures and outlasted the 50/50 mix. I attribute it to the annual clovers.

Hope I'm not coming off like a salesman....i just really believe in GRO

 

[Elkaddict]

As the longest winter in my life inches toawards a close, I thought I’d give an update. Enough snow finally melted that I was able get on the mountain for the first time in more than a month. We’ve lost quite a few deer but still managed to see 3 different groups. They need spring bad.... Assuming we don’t get anymore serious snow accumulation, the rye and triticale should pop this week. Presently, green pickings are pretty slim. They’re still chewing on Winifred stalks and the abundant browse.

Most of camera batteries on the mountain gave out. However, a couple predator pics were worthwhile. Bears finally made an appearance—40 days later than last spring which is incidentally how far behind we are weather wise. Unlike last year, there’s no corn left this year.

 

[Elkaddict]

It looks like spring is finally here to stay. While we will continue to have freezing temps at night for a while, daytime temps are forecast in the mid 40s-60s. As the pic shows, green up has started and the deer are hammering the triticale and rye plots. The clover plots are all popping and being mowed lip high. I woke up to 5 deer in front yard working on the clover in our home plot. They are thin but not dangerously. I saw 3 different doe groups on my morning walk on the mountain. I’m a bit worried that of does which survived this brutal winter, few will drop twins. Browse remains in pretty good shape given the deep and prolonged snow. Still I’m upbeat there are some survivors. Nature finds away....and hopefully we can help a bit.

It looks like our turkey population also took a hit. Pics are showing a small number are on the place. That’s a bit of a disappointment but we had way too many on property last fall (60+). Turkey season starts on the 1st and I’m hoping there’s a long beard or two that’ll have their freak on.

I had had a fair amount of left over berseem clover. I got abot 20lbs spread in the spent brassica plots that were dry enough. Ive not had good luck frost seeding it even though it is the “frosty” variety. Deer love it and it grows quickly, and is easy to kill when it’s time. Still, by the time you pay for shipping, medium clover from the local ag store makes more sense—-this will probably be the last I plant.

I’ve got lots of work to do cleaning up my corn stalks to prepare for planting. Unfortunately, all of the ground I need to work is still too wet for equipment.