New observation, don’t know what to make of it

[Bullwinkle]

This year we got 2 bucks dressed over 200lb and a 160lb doe. Deer size was up 20-30lb. We’ve never had a buck over 200lb dressed before. I sent in teeth. One I think was 6 and one 5. Sent in teeth from doe too, never did this before

Antler pop was very poor. Nature put the energy of my food plots into weight instead of bone

Don’t know what to make of it

 

[HB_Hunter]

What did the bucks score? Any history with them?

I've been fortunate to have several years of history with several bucks on the farm. Some of them don't seem to add more than 5-10" inches of antler score year over year. Other add much more. My buddy has seen similar results too.

I think it has a lot to do with genetics and maybe a little less to do with nutrition where I am. We don't have bad winters and generally have an abundance of food.

It sounds like they are well fed healthy deer that reach maturity. I'd be happy with that.


Sent from my iPad using Deer Hunter Forum

 

[Bullwinkle]

One was in mid 130’s the other mid 140

Just weird how body weights jumped up. My 18 acres of plots are almost gone

 

[Terrific_tom]

Bull there is definately something wrong. Your bucks should have put on tremendous growth with back to back mild winters in Wisconsin. I had no problem shooting a 160 plus buck on my place this year. All the bucks were carrying better head gear and more weight. Time to get a better deer plan, stop worring about all your food plots feeding your deer and worry more about natural browse as that makes up a lot of a deers diet. Shot this big boy on 1st sit. 161 3/8. Field dressed at 217. Live weight about 275. Still chasing the other big boy that is bigger than this one.

 

[SwampCat]

Each deer is different. For the most part, if our deer arent anything special in the antler dept at age 3.5 - they arent going to be at 5.5, either. They will continue to add weight. In our case, buck body weights are little indication of antler size. Our antlers peak at 4-5 years. Body wts peak at six - usually. This is in the south where late summer food is probably more important than a winter food source.

 

[MN Slick]

18 acres almost gone already? Sounds like social stress might be in play or perhaps that is all they had in them genetically.

 

[Chainsaw]

That's very interesting Bull. Congratulations on harvesting two tremendous deer on your property. As we all know but sometimes forget a free range property will likely hold only so many mature deer; you have removed two with antlers evidently considered not overly exciting for your property. Now two different ones can live there. They may or may not be of outstanding antler growth but at least your property now has two more chances. If tags are available we try to shoot our 3 1/2 year old deer that are not showing promise towards better antlers than what is considered very good for this area. It is not uncommon for 3 1/2 year olds to score less than 100.I don't know for a fact but expect that if they score 100 or less at 3 1/2 they won't ever hit the larger antlers for this area. We aren't attempting to change our gene pool but simply making space for new contestants. Still a 3 1/2 year old is a tough deer to harvest here. And five and six year olds-WOW! That is quite a feat.

Congratulations on breaking the 200 lb mark twice. Those deer must have had quality food to reach those sizes. We see 200lbs. dressed here on and off but usually it is in the early to mid part of the season by November 6 or so. After that the bucks loose weight quickly here.

And Terrific Tom, congratulations that is a tremendous animal as well. You and Bull have some extra special properties.

 

[Mennoniteman]

View attachment 10532 Bull there is definately something wrong. Your bucks should have put on tremendous growth with back to back mild winters in Wisconsin. I had no problem shooting a 160 plus buck on my place this year. All the bucks were carrying better head gear and more weight. Time to get a better deer plan, stop worring about all your food plots feeding your deer and worry more about natural browse as that makes up a lot of a deers diet. Shot this big boy on 1st sit. 161 3/8. Field dressed at 217. Live weight about 275. Still chasing the other big boy that is bigger than this one.

Nice buck. Good luck with the other one!

 

[catscratch]

Have you thought about epigenetics? Maybe your herd's lack of survival opportunities over the yrs have turned off genes for larger antler production and a couple of mild winters hasn't been enough time to turn them back on.

 

[cutman]

If your body weights increased that much, that’s all the data you need to know that your program is working. I’ve found that increased liveweights is the best indicator of overall herd health.

Too many individual factors influence antler growth for me to base any long term decisions off of short term observations. I watched one buck for years plateau around 110-120”. I passed him up one year thinking he was gonna be huge the following year, and his rack didn’t increase at all the next season.

 

[MarkDarvin]

You have a sulfur and boron deficiency in your soil affecting your uptake of calcium and phosporus in your plants. I'd bet my hat on low copper too. The deer are eating lower protein foods that are still packing on weight, but not transferring minerals to the antlers.

 

[Reagan]

Maybe it is karma.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bullwinkle]

18 acres almost gone already? Sounds like social stress might be in play or perhaps that is all they had in them genetically.

We didn’t have much acorn production and the deer flocked to the farm. Way too many does for my liking. We’ve gotten 16 so far and hope to get 10 to 15 more.

I did have too much social pressure - saw it big time. I can’t see how that made them stress eat???

What’s weird is how fat all the deer are. No question the population is too high right now for my liking (and I like having a lot of deer) but it sure doesn’t look like it he deer are out eating their habitat.

More deer than ever, no acorns, biggest deer I’ve ever had,- doesn’t fit - very wet summer???

 

[Bullwinkle]

You have a sulfur and boron deficiency in your soil affecting your uptake of calcium and phosporus in your plants. I'd bet my hat on low copper too. The deer are eating lower protein foods that are still packing on weight, but not transferring minerals to the antlers.

Interesting

I don’t put down boron or copper but put a lot of calcium and potassium sulfate down every year. I don’t think my soil test calls out boron or copper

 

[Baker]

Couple other things to consider. A jump in body weight for one fall doesn't necessarily make a trend. Bucks typically fatten up for the fall after velvet shed and seem to be able to add pounds licking a rock. Its possible there was something environmental that helped them add pounds this particular fall that may be different from other falls.

Also, for 5 and 6 yr old bucks the antler potential was mostly set at birth. Weight changes this late in life are unlikely to have commensurate jumps in antler growth. Indeed much of a bucks potential is determined at conception based on parental genetics of course but also greatly influenced by environmental conditions including the nutrient density of the environment and its effect on both the mama and baby.

I'm willing to propose that if you knew these bucks from previous seasons they were unimpressive then as well. The reciprocal is that really big deer are big even when they are little.

 

[dogghr]

Relatively mild winter with just few bouts of nasty allowed my deer to roll into spring with more body weight than the previous two bad winter years. That allowed their starting point to be fatter/healthier as they began to add on even more weight. And I bet similar situation in that area. Antlers? ...who knows,,, those are always anyones guess on free range deer. You may see them explode next year or they may be just genetically under performing. One year does not a pattern make.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Baker

Here is the one I think is 6

2015 picture



2016 picture

2017 picture



Bet he didn’t grow 10” between 3-6 years old. Just under 200lb dressed shot during gun season after rut

I didn’t see any signs this deer wouldn’t have much potential. Just glad we got him

 

[Bullwinkle]

Here’s a summer picture of the other buck we shot. 203lb dressed

Big blocky body. Can’t ID from last year but my guess is 5 year old based on body. We’ll see what the tooth analysis says

Glad we shot. Bet it will struggle hitting 130”

 

[Baker]

Agree it looks like same buck. Looks like from 4 to 6 he changed very little. I'd find that disappointing. At the end of the day antler growth is a function of nutrition and age....free range or whatever. Seems you are able to get some bucks to the older age classes. 2 questions to ask...Are the best bucks getting shot young leaving subpar bucks to age? And What can be done to improve the year round nutritional plane especially in the critical months from April to August.

 

[Bullwinkle]

I can’t be hurting on nutrition with deer weights jumping up like that??

No kidding, we shot a 160lb dressed doe this year. My biggest in 12 years prior to this year was 140lb