New observation, don’t know what to make of it

[Baker]

Also, back to your original question:I wouldn't make anything from the results that this year bucks were 20-30 lbs heavier than historical. I think that is meaningless. Weights can fluctuate a lot year to year and will fluctuate a lot depending on the time of year of harvest. I see bucks drop from 250-275lbs down to 180 lbs every year from the rigors of rut.

Your antler performance is completely independent of that. The bell curve of antler development in a herd is a function of long term nutrition [ good or bad ] and age. Its that simple.

 

[Baker]

I can’t be hurting on nutrition with deer weights jumping up like that??

No kidding, we shot a 160lb dressed doe this year. My biggest in 12 years prior to this year was 140lb

Yes you can. Nutrition may be insufficient at the critical fawning and antler growing periods.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Hum, I quit doing spring/summer plots to not attract too many does. It’s been working till this year with no acorns

Anyone doubt doe factory should read my log. Does doubled, bucks cut in 1/2 per sit this year

The deer move to neighbors after my corn/beans are gone

Like you said not to base decision on one year.

Antler growth down all around me. Biggest in neighborhood 160”. Normally we have some 180-200”

 

[Baker]

Hum, I quit doing spring/summer plots to not attract too many does. It’s been working till this year with no acorns

Anyone doubt doe factory should read my log. Does doubled, bucks cut in 1/2 per sit this year

The deer move to neighbors after my corn/beans are gone

Like you said not to base decision on one year.

Antler growth down all around me. Biggest in neighborhood 160”. Normally we have some 180-200”

I can't go down the whole 'doe factory ' rabbit hole with you. Not a reality I can relate to.

That the entire neighborhood is down may explain a lot. That can frequently be explained by a nutritional dip in the key months of April/ May and on thru the summer. Late winter conditions last yr. can also play to that. If you don't have a way to even out the nutritional cycle thru ag or supplemental feed then you are at the mercy of what nature provides.

A parallel example is the semi desert area of the south Tx. brush country. Without supplemental feed rain fall greatly impacts annual antler growth. Get rains at the right time and the entire area has fantastic antler growth. Let here be a drought and antler growth plummets. However, ranches that supplementally feed even those cycles out and have more consistent results.

 

[Terrific_tom]

I can't go down the whole 'doe factory ' rabbit hole with you. Not a reality I can relate to.

That the entire neighborhood is down may explain a lot. That can frequently be explained by a nutritional dip in the key months of April/ May and on thru the summer. Late winter conditions last yr. can also play to that. If you don't have a way to even out the nutritional cycle thru ag or supplemental feed then you are at the mercy of what nature provides.

A parallel example is the semi desert area of the south Tx. brush country. Without supplemental feed rain fall greatly impacts annual antler growth. Get rains at the right time and the entire area has fantastic antler growth. Let here be a drought and antler growth plummets. However, ranches that supplementally feed even those cycles out and have more consistent results.

I have land 30 miles away. We had a very mild winter, early green up, and good precipitation. The rest of central Wisconsin had above average antler growth. Actually the whole state had really good antler growth this year. What could be different in Waupaca county? Too high of DPSM? Stress?

 

[OkieKubota]

DPSM is too high...

 

[Bullwinkle]

This year, there are too many deer for my liking

What I don’t understand is increased body weight and too many deer.

These are the biggest deer by far I’ve had in 12 years. Doesn’t make sense

 

[SwampCat]

I dont know about your area, but our bucks typically reach their peak score at 4.5-5.5. Usually, at 6.5, they have lost quite a few inches - they gain mass, but loose both points and tine length. Dont have to worry too much about declining antlers - they are usually dead by 6.5.

 

[Terrific_tom]

This year, there are too many deer for my liking

What I don’t understand is increased body weight and too many deer.

These are the biggest deer by far I’ve had in 12 years. Doesn’t make sense

Stress

 

[SwampCat]

We didn’t have much acorn production and the deer flocked to the farm. Way too many does for my liking. We’ve gotten 16 so far and hope to get 10 to 15 more.

I did have too much social pressure - saw it big time. I can’t see how that made them stress eat???

What’s weird is how fat all the deer are. No question the population is too high right now for my liking (and I like having a lot of deer) but it sure doesn’t look like it he deer are out eating their habitat.

More deer than ever, no acorns, biggest deer I’ve ever had,- doesn’t fit - very wet summer???

How many acres do you control?

 

[Bullwinkle]

I dont know about your area, but our bucks typically reach their peak score at 4.5-5.5. Usually, at 6.5, they have lost quite a few inches - they gain mass, but loose both points and tine length. Dont have to worry too much about declining antlers - they are usually dead by 6.5.

Not my experience. Our biggest buck was tooth aged at 7.5 and second biggest 6.5. No 150”+ under 6.5

 

[Bullwinkle]

How many acres do you control?

Roughly 350 but in a great area that’s getting more people on board every year. This year I only know of two 1.5 year olds shot in neighborhood. Way more does shot than bucks

 

[swat1018]

This year, there are too many deer for my liking

What I don’t understand is increased body weight and too many deer.

These are the biggest deer by far I’ve had in 12 years. Doesn’t make sense

There were too many last year too. You ignored it and the does had twins and triplets on a mild winter, now you start to see the light. I don't know a thing about your property, but remember some of your questionable positions from years past.

 

[Bullwinkle]

There were too many last year too. You ignored it and the does had twins and triplets on a mild winter, now you start to see the light. I don't know a thing about your property, but remember some of your questionable positions from years past.

Didn’t think so at time. The difference is no acorns and limited guys with plots by me. I had insane doe numbers this year. Seriously, they are almost done with 18 acres of plots

I am seriously trying to make an adjustment. I think we and the neighbors have shot about 50 dpsm of does already and we are not done

The productivity in Waupaca County is absolutely amazing

 

[SwampCat]

One of the most interesting things I find on these nationwide forums is the differences between areas and properties. I have 300 acres and we have killed one doe in the past five years. Our doe/fawn ratios average .5 fawns per doe.

We try not to kill more that two or three deer off my 300 acres - no does.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Have you thought about epigenetics? Maybe your herd's lack of survival opportunities over the yrs have turned off genes for larger antler production and a couple of mild winters hasn't been enough time to turn them back on.

Epigenetics? That's some seriously big words! Maybe his deer have been eating plastic and the BPA is responsible for the weight gain and small antlers? Research paper: "Plastics Derived Endocrine Disruptors (BPA, DEHP and DBP) Induce Epigenetic Transgenerational Inheritance of Obesity, Reproductive Disease and Sperm Epimutations", and there you've got it"obesity".
Time to clean up the plastic trash in our food plots.

 

[Bullwinkle]

One of the most interesting things I find on these nationwide forums is the differences between areas and properties. I have 300 acres and we have killed one doe in the past five years. Our doe/fawn ratios average .5 fawns per doe.

We try not to kill more that two or three deer off my 300 acres - no does.

True. I think Baker made a good point also. There is so much variability. The last 2 years I felt everything was balanced and in control. Deer were aging well and does were stable. Then bam, does everywhere, deer got fat, antlers quit growing???We’ve got a spectacular group of young bucks if I can get the antler pop I used to have back

 

[Gravel Road]

I think you might be over thinking the results of such a small sample size (2 bucks). Deer are individuals and some just don't get big. I have a mature 10 pt on camera for the last 3 years that hasn't put on an inch of length or any mass. It's not environmental since plenty of other bucks are growing fine, he just is what he is. Not every deer has super star genetics, just like not all of us can play in the NFL.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Start weighing your does. If you're taking that many off your property, you should be able to come up with some comparable data in a couple seasons. I'd seriously check your soil for missing nutrients and then plug the gaps in your forage calendar. If your plots are getting completely wiped out, there may be more getting carried away than is being put back on.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Start weighing your does. If you're taking that many off your property, you should be able to come up with some comparable data in a couple seasons. I'd seriously check your soil for missing nutrients and then plug the gaps in your forage calendar. If your plots are getting completely wiped out, there may be more getting carried away than is being put back on.

I do weigh all does. Weigh is up 20lb or so. Fawns look like 1.5 year olds. All the deer are fat butterballs.