Urban flight to rural land

[dogghr]

Without getting political , may not realize that tariff was placed on softwood imported from Canada about 3 years ago. Canada subsidizes softwood logging on their public land allowing sales to US at undercut prices of domestic. That’s great.

On the flip , most red oak timbered in US is shipped to China for furniture construction to be sold back to us. With the China issue ,red oak has been tariffed by the Chinese which depressed that market , which was lifted about 6 mo ago. But w surplus of RO it will take a while to drive those timber prices back up early next year. That is why species such as whit oak sales higher than RO at the moment.
My land is mostly all RO and WO. You know what I’m waiting for. Patience.


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[PineSapJunky]

We clear cut 80 acres of pines 2 years ago. I plan on replanting with a variety of oaks in the hopes of reestablishing an oak savanna this winter. Maybe 30-40 years we'll talk about timber. Most pine plantations that are being harvested in my area that aren't owned by a timber company is being turned back out into pasture/ag land. More money in it. Its interesting to watch the wildlife adapt.

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[THE LLC]

Buddy of mine that lives in ATL just closed on a piece of property bout 20 minutes from my place. Ended up offering more than asking price after losing another tract a few weeks earlier due to an offer above asking price. The realtor he used is someone I referred who also serves as my consulting forester. He's been selling rural land for many years. Told me never in his career has he seen higher demand for rural land from folks wanting a place to escape, to the point that tracts are now being bid over asking price. At the time, he had 8 tracts under contract. I've never known rural land in our area sell for even asking price...always below.

Seems between the Covid lockdown and the meltdown of law and order in urban cities, folks down here are looking for an escape to their own little sanctuary. Just curious if you guys are seeing the same in your area?

Dang buddy, sounds like time for me to sell the farm! No doubt people are fleeing Gwinnett County. Including me when my term ends Dec 31. However, just remember, wherever these “city folk” go, they take their crazy-ass political views with them that shit-canned the places they are leaving. Personally, I’m going to a rural area, as far from an interstate as I can get, and with as bad of schools as I can find. Good schools destroy a rural community because the libtards will find it.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Dang buddy, sounds like time for me to sell the farm! No doubt people are fleeing Gwinnett County. Including me when my term ends Dec 31. However, just remember, wherever these “city folk” go, they take their crazy-ass political views with them that shit-canned the places they are leaving. Personally, I’m going to a rural area, as far from an interstate as I can get, and with as bad of schools as I can find. Good schools destroy a rural community because the libtards will find it.

I worry about the politics bleeding over to where they're going as well. I wonder if there is any hope of that not being the case for those that came from the worst of places. The only example that comes to mind that gives me a little hope is Cuban immigrants. They seem to be vehemently anti-communist after what they went through in Cuba.

I was listening to the latest Rogan podcast yesterday, and he's even changed his tune since he moved to Texas. He specifically mentioned not diluting out the politics that made his new place what it is.

 

[Deadeye]

I harvested loblolly pines that were planted in the seventies when the loblolly craze was going on around here, and I'm not replanting them, it's way to expensive to justify with the low rate of return and nothing to offer for wildlife, especially with the current low prices and the future prices in limbo. Our native tree species like oak, cherry, poplar and white pines are worth way more anyway.

It appears in several of our WMA's here there is a push/move towards removing the Oaks n Such and allowing the Pine to flourish.

Why? Well Pine grows fairly quick here and the demand for it is high, whereas the Oaks and Other Hardwood grow slow and they usually don't grow into Big Strong Trees like the ones in Pa do. It is a sad thing to see an entire Oak Flat or Ridge burnt off with repeated fire until the die off and scrubby Pine gets to replace them.

No real value for the long term of the wildlife (yes they do provide cover, some food, and such) compared to Oaks producing mass, but they produce $$$ for the Land Managers.

 

[Deadeye]

The Bring Along Politics is REAL.
Here we have massive influx from the NY and NE States Areas. Within a few years they are pushing for the same crap they moved to get away from.

Even the TV Channels cadre to them. They make sure to show the NY Teams and NE Teams when they play almost anywhere over the In State Teams. They claim they get a bigger rating on Views when they show them.

 

[THE LLC]

Yep, then they demand if YOU don’t like it YOU can LEAVE.

 

[Mennoniteman]

It appears in several of our WMA's here there is a push/move towards removing the Oaks n Such and allowing the Pine to flourish.

Why? Well Pine grows fairly quick here and the demand for it is high, whereas the Oaks and Other Hardwood grow slow and they usually don't grow into Big Strong Trees like the ones in Pa do. It is a sad thing to see an entire Oak Flat or Ridge burnt off with repeated fire until the die off and scrubby Pine gets to replace them.

No real value for the long term of the wildlife (yes they do provide cover, some food, and such) compared to Oaks producing mass, but they produce $$$ for the Land Managers.

Is there still $$$ in growing pines in the south? We're at $4 per ton for pulp wood prices here. At those rates you can't afford to spend any money on planting and thinning or burning.

 

[THE LLC]

$12/ton.

 

[Deadeye]

Is there still $$$ in growing pines in the south? We're at $4 per ton for pulp wood prices here. At those rates you can't afford to spend any money on planting and thinning or burning.

I honestly don't know.
But there seems to be a move towards them.

 

[Triple C]

$25 per ton for saw timber in 2015. $23 for saw timber that will be cut in 2021. Price depends on how far loggers have to travel to mill. I'll be replanting the section I'm clearcutting with the assumption that over time, pine timber prices will improve, particularly if we get a new mill in the area which should happen. I'll add that we chose one of the most reputable loggers in this area for our timber harvest this time around rather than the highest bidder from the last time.

 

[Mennoniteman]

$25 per ton for saw timber in 2015. $23 for saw timber that will be cut in 2021. Price depends on how far loggers have to travel to mill. I'll be replanting the section I'm clearcutting with the assumption that over time, pine timber prices will improve, particularly if we get a new mill in the area which should happen. I'll add that we chose one of the most reputable loggers in this area for our timber harvest this time around rather than the highest bidder from the last time.

There's a technological shift from using as much paper for communication and literature, and using wood chips to make power. However, the world population is increasing and all those people will need toilet paper. So how this balances out pulpwood prices in the future is difficult to guess.

 

[Triple C]

There's a technological shift from using as much paper for communication and literature, and using wood chips to make power. However, the world population is increasing and all those people will need toilet paper. So how this balances out pulpwood prices in the future is difficult to guess.

Spot on. When I replant I'll be replanting for the kids after I'm gone.

 

[massey]

There's a technological shift from using as much paper for communication and literature, and using wood chips to make power. However, the world population is increasing and all those people will need toilet paper. So how this balances out pulpwood prices in the future is difficult to guess.

If my household is any indication, paper use has gone WAY up. I have 6 cardboard boxes on my porch every day.


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[Triple C]

It appears in several of our WMA's here there is a push/move towards removing the Oaks n Such and allowing the Pine to flourish.

Why? Well Pine grows fairly quick here and the demand for it is high, whereas the Oaks and Other Hardwood grow slow and they usually don't grow into Big Strong Trees like the ones in Pa do. It is a sad thing to see an entire Oak Flat or Ridge burnt off with repeated fire until the die off and scrubby Pine gets to replace them.

No real value for the long term of the wildlife (yes they do provide cover, some food, and such) compared to Oaks producing mass, but they produce $$$ for the Land Managers.

Deadeye...Well managed pine stands thinned to a basal area of 50 or less provide great habitat for deer and actually produce more food over the course of a year than oak stands that have canopied over. I always love hunting oak flats because I could see so far. Still love them when the acorns are dropping. I'm about 60% pine and 40% mature hardwoods. But for year round forage, particularly forbs, aggressively thinned stands of pine along with prescribed fire every 2 to 3 years will support many more deer than a mature oak stand over the course of a year.

I recall in 2012 when I bought the adjoining 73 acre tract to my original 214 acre tract. It was 90% 22 yr old pine at the time and had it not joined me I would have passed on it as it was mostly all in planted pine. Didn't take me long to find out that the deer density on the 73 acres exceeded that of my 214 which is comprised of 50% hardwoods and 50% planted pine. Most sits, it's a parade of deer meandering thru the pines browsing on forbs and bedding in cover.

 

[Jeff H]

Deadeye...Well managed pine stands thinned to a basal area of 50 or less provide great habitat for deer and actually produce more food over the course of a year than oak stands that have canopied over. I always love hunting oak flats because I could see so far. Still love them when the acorns are dropping. I'm about 60% pine and 40% mature hardwoods. But for year round forage, particularly forbs, aggressively thinned stands of pine along with prescribed fire every 2 to 3 years will support many more deer than a mature oak stand over the course of a year.

I recall in 2012 when I bought the adjoining 73 acre tract to my original 214 acre tract. It was 90% 22 yr old pine at the time and had it not joined me I would have passed on it as it was mostly all in planted pine. Didn't take me long to find out that the deer density on the 73 acres exceeded that of my 214 which is comprised of 50% hardwoods and 50% planted pine. Most sits, it's a parade of deer meandering thru the pines browsing on forbs and bedding in cover.

That's great info Triple C and one of those things that I would have never considered. I don't live in pine country but I might one day.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Deadeye...Well managed pine stands thinned to a basal area of 50 or less provide great habitat for deer and actually produce more food over the course of a year than oak stands that have canopied over. I always love hunting oak flats because I could see so far. Still love them when the acorns are dropping. I'm about 60% pine and 40% mature hardwoods. But for year round forage, particularly forbs, aggressively thinned stands of pine along with prescribed fire every 2 to 3 years will support many more deer than a mature oak stand over the course of a year.

I recall in 2012 when I bought the adjoining 73 acre tract to my original 214 acre tract. It was 90% 22 yr old pine at the time and had it not joined me I would have passed on it as it was mostly all in planted pine. Didn't take me long to find out that the deer density on the 73 acres exceeded that of my 214 which is comprised of 50% hardwoods and 50% planted pine. Most sits, it's a parade of deer meandering thru the pines browsing on forbs and bedding in cover.

Not to contradict but to point out that you are comparing well managed pine stands to oak stands that have not been managed. An oak stand that has canopied over is long overdue for a thinning/ harvesting. A forester with a degree will tell you that well managed oak stand will have similar or better deer browse than well managed pines.
Of course, there's a lot of difference between PA and GA. I have attached a video of how a well managed oak stand in PA looks.

 

[Elkaddict]

It is a true privilege to participate on a site with such a broad knowledge base, and likeminded people who are willing to share and mentor. Thanks!

 

[Jeff H]

It is a true privilege to participate on a site with such a broad knowledge base, and likeminded people who are willing to share and mentor. Thanks!

Could not agree more.

 

[Drycreek]

It is a true privilege to participate on a site with such a broad knowledge base, and likeminded people who are willing to share and mentor. Thanks!

I will agree and add that virtually all do so without animosity or condescension. That is indeed refreshing and well above normal for lots of forums. This is a great bunch of folks and I’ve learned a bunch by being here !