J-birds place

[j-bird]

Hey, at least they're collecting the data. Amazing you have any deer at all considering 10 deer per square mile of habitat are being harvested. My property in MN, we can't get a solid number on anything going on in deer management. We didn't find out until July how many deer were killed in 2016.

This was the first time my DNR has made that much info available to us in the roughly 20 years I have been deer hunting. We typically only get the actual harvest numbers and that is it. Also keep in mind that "10" you refer to is actually 8.6 and is per square mile of habitat.....that number drops to roughly 2 deer harvested per physical square mile county wide.....think about that the lack of habitat and thus deer numbers to the point that on average only 2 deer are harvested every square mile (640 acres). All while ANY hunter can kill as many as 7 deer in that same county if they so desire. Seems like a "kill every one you see if you want" sort of management message to me........

 

[OkieKubota]

Well I had a great firearms opener weekend. Went hunting with my little girl and we shared some memories.....although they didn't result in a deer - she missed cleanly.....twice. But I ended up with a pick-up of deer all the same.

First morning of opening weekend I took my daughter to a shooting house because it was cold. I set up a decoy and about mid morning a pretty 2 year old buck comes trotting across the field. He stopped about 50 yards out and she shot. Missed cleanly and he trotted about 20 yards and turned back to look over the decoy again. Emma shot yet again - and again missed cleanly. Buck fever had not only showed up but had consumed her. She was in tears because of the miss but I used the moment as a learning experience. I explained that we all have missed and how I would prefer a clean miss vs a bad hit. She explained the emotions involved and I just smiled.....because we have all been there. I was still able to get a smile out of her on the walk back home. View attachment 4517 We still went out later and she chose not to shoot again because of the nerves but I talked to her about how to try to calm down and relax and how to breath and the like with the deer being close. Even without a gun in her hand she was physically shaking - so we just watched......I was tagged out in the antlerless deer department at that point.....more on that below.

The times she didn't hunt - I still went and had some success myself. I got a full freezer now ......now I need one for the wall!
View attachment 4518

As much as I was against the use of high powered rifle - I decided to give it a chance and my 30-30 was great. I didn't extend my range any more than I would have had with my slug gun, it delivered clean kills and was far easier to shoot on me than my 12 gauge. I'm still not sure we need to be able to kill deer at 200 or 300 yards (some other legal cartridges like 30-06, 308 & 300).

We had seen decent deer activity and now it's to get warm again - not real happy about that, but I have the next 2 weeks off for vacation so I got time. I want to get Emma a deer yet and I need to track down old mossy horns!

This was the first time my DNR has made that much info available to us in the roughly 20 years I have been deer hunting. We typically only get the actual harvest numbers and that is it. Also keep in mind that "10" you refer to is actually 8.6 and is per square mile of habitat.....that number drops to roughly 2 deer harvested per physical square mile county wide.....think about that the lack of habitat and thus deer numbers to the point that on average only 2 deer are harvested every square mile (640 acres). All while ANY hunter can kill as many as 7 deer in that same county if they so desire. Seems like a "kill every one you see if you want" sort of management message to me........

I guess I am confused...

 

[MarkDarvin]

If you've got 30+ deer per square mile, you might be able to survive that. It'd be interesting to know how many deer per square mile of habitat they think you have.

You're right on schedule to have a CWD discovery and immediate move to sharp shooters and extended seasons. Southeast MN had ridiculous tag allotments for upwards of a decade+ and that didn't get it down to where the lords wanted it. Suddenly CWD was discovered and the gates were opened. Now they have 13 deer limits, sharp shooters, and a brand new January hunt.

 

[j-bird]

If you've got 30+ deer per square mile, you might be able to survive that. It'd be interesting to know how many deer per square mile of habitat they think you have.

You're right on schedule to have a CWD discovery and immediate move to sharp shooters and extended seasons. Southeast MN had ridiculous tag allotments for upwards of a decade+ and that didn't get it down to where the lords wanted it. Suddenly CWD was discovered and the gates were opened. Now they have 13 deer limits, sharp shooters, and a brand new January hunt.

My deer density isn't near as bad as some counties and we had a BTB issue last year in a nearby county that caused quite a stir. Statewide harvest is showing the herd is in decline but the DNR won't identify what the "goal" is. I have no idea what the DNR thinks my density is. To be honest with the decline in the state wide numbers I don't think my area has seem a significant decline and the amount of habitat is the limiting factor so until we really start shooting more than we should I look for my county numbers to remain fairly stable.

 

[j-bird]

I guess I am confused...

Explain Okie..... I can't clear it up without some clarity of what is causing the confusion. And maybe I am looking at something incorrectly - sometimes a different perspective allows us to see things we are too close to personally.

 

[OkieKubota]

Explain Okie..... I can't clear it up without some clarity of what is causing the confusion. And maybe I am looking at something incorrectly - sometimes a different perspective allows us to see things we are too close to personally.

I quoted a post where you killed 3 antler less deer in one day last fall and that 3rd one you shot you were trying to quickly look it up on your phone to see if you could kill it and then stated technology literally killed that deer...
This was all absolutely legal and fine and you even got a buck a few days later.

If the deer herd is in decline and I am concerned about the numbers my way of trying to fix that is to limit the harvest on my ground. Talk to neighbors and see if they are noticing the same thing. If I am reading your post right you are concerned about the low deer numbers and amount of tags issued. Having the ability to kill that many deer doesn't mean you have to.

Our deer herd in Oklahoma was peaking in the early 2000's and I used to count 10 - 20 deer a day on the way to and from work. Not agricultural land just see them standing in the woods or edge of a cow pasture. Hunting was great and we had a bow season that began in October and ended last day of December and a muzzleloader and rifle season that each lasted 9 days and the only day you could take a doe with a firearm of any kind was the last day of firearm season. Our wildlife department decided we needed to really thin the herd so they put a new campaign in place called "Hunters in the know, take a doe"...they opened up the doe days to initially just weekends of the gun seasons and then decided they either needed to sell more tags or we needed to kill more deer so they opened the gun seasons up to kill a doe any day and then gave us a special 10 day doe gun season as well...that must not have been enough either because now we have a 16 day rifle and 9 day muzzleloader and a 3 day youth gun and a 10 day antlerless gun season and now our bow season also runs to the 15th of January. We can take 7 deer including the special antlerless season. 2 does can be taken in muzzleloader and 2 can be taken in rifle and 1 "holiday" antlerless and then we can take 2 bucks...

Now I drive all the same roads and absolutely never see a deer. I don't know what the goal of our wildlife department is as far as numbers because a good hunt for me is seeing a couple of deer in a sitting...I have many sittings with no deer seen. I assume their goal is tag sales and maximum opportunity to kill any deer...

 

[j-bird]

I quoted a post where you killed 3 antler less deer in one day last fall and that 3rd one you shot you were trying to quickly look it up on your phone to see if you could kill it and then stated technology literally killed that deer...
This was all absolutely legal and fine and you even got a buck a few days later.

If the deer herd is in decline and I am concerned about the numbers my way of trying to fix that is to limit the harvest on my ground. Talk to neighbors and see if they are noticing the same thing. If I am reading your post right you are concerned about the low deer numbers and amount of tags issued. Having the ability to kill that many deer doesn't mean you have to.

Our deer herd in Oklahoma was peaking in the early 2000's and I used to count 10 - 20 deer a day on the way to and from work. Not agricultural land just see them standing in the woods or edge of a cow pasture. Hunting was great and we had a bow season that began in October and ended last day of December and a muzzleloader and rifle season that each lasted 9 days and the only day you could take a doe with a firearm of any kind was the last day of firearm season. Our wildlife department decided we needed to really thin the herd so they put a new campaign in place called "Hunters in the know, take a doe"...they opened up the doe days to initially just weekends of the gun seasons and then decided they either needed to sell more tags or we needed to kill more deer so they opened the gun seasons up to kill a doe any day and then gave us a special 10 day doe gun season as well...that must not have been enough either because now we have a 16 day rifle and 9 day muzzleloader and a 3 day youth gun and a 10 day antlerless gun season and now our bow season also runs to the 15th of January. We can take 7 deer including the special antlerless season. 2 does can be taken in muzzleloader and 2 can be taken in rifle and 1 "holiday" antlerless and then we can take 2 bucks...

Now I drive all the same roads and absolutely never see a deer. I don't know what the goal of our wildlife department is as far as numbers because a good hunt for me is seeing a couple of deer in a sitting...I have many sittings with no deer seen. I assume their goal is tag sales and maximum opportunity to kill any deer...

I will try to keep this brief. I will provide data if needed, but my specific area and county is not a significant concern. We lack cover which in turn keeps deer numbers fairly low. It has always been that way, but I see far more deer now than I did when I first hunted the place back in 2002. I have specific harvest data from my place since 2010 and on my county since 2000. My county shoots 750+/-80 deer every year and has for nearly a decade. That's pretty stable in my book.

My concern about low deer numbers is on a state wide basis. We have counties (23 of 92) that have seen their harvest numbers of 2016 drop by over 25% or more from their 2012 figures (my county has only dropped 4% in that same time). Now some of those areas needed it....but how much is enough? This is where I take issue with my DNR. There is no published plan. They don't know how many deer we have. They don't know how many hunters we have, and they surely will not publish target levels of what they want. They are going to ride some of the counties to the tune of 5 to 10% harvest reduction every year until enough people look up and ask where did all the deer go!

I will adjust my harvest plan as things change....that is part of the game. First of all my "need" for venison will change as my kids grow and move out and secondly things will change as hunting pressure/harvest mounts around my property as well. I don't kill every deer I see. I shoot a number that so far history has shown me that I am not negatively affecting the population in my immediate area, but I am not under harvesting and seeing signs of too many deer either....

 

[OkieKubota]

I use fawn sightings and camera surveys to tell me whether I can take any does...again this year only seen 3 fawns and 6 does total...no does will be shot again...never have killed a doe here on the hollow.

Grandson and I took a doe apiece on Home 10 last year. Saw 12 deer and had seen 8 fawns on the property.

Our deer lease we never kill does with any firearms. 10 hunters and 1500 acres. If we kill a doe it is bow only and we only take one. Maybe 2 does a year killed...low numbers...

All 3 places in the same county...

Keep on your game department...see what goal is...I try to attend every public meeting!

 

[j-bird]

I use fawn sightings and camera surveys to tell me whether I can take any does...again this year only seen 3 fawns and 6 does total...no does will be shot again...never have killed a doe here on the hollow.

Grandson and I took a doe apiece on Home 10 last year. Saw 12 deer and had seen 8 fawns on the property.

Our deer lease we never kill does with any firearms. 10 hunters and 1500 acres. If we kill a doe it is bow only and we only take one. Maybe 2 does a year killed...low numbers...

All 3 places in the same county...

Keep on your game department...see what goal is...I try to attend every public meeting!

I figure my hunting will reach that point at some point. The need for meat in the freezer will diminish (I can only take a single antlered deer per season). Then it will be hunting for one for the wall and helping my kids and grandkids get a deer. My focus this year is my daughter getting her first deer ever!

 

[j-bird]

Well it's been an interesting weekend thus far. Friday night I had to play parade dad as my middle daughter represented her class in this years homecoming parade. She was not up for "queen" but she had a blast all the same. She is the "social butterfly" I never was in high school. We borrowed a friends '92 firebird convertible (I don't want to talk about why my GTO isn't done....) I kept telling her I was going retro - I graduated high school in '92!!!!


Saturday I was out with my youngest and prepping stands for her youth hunt coming next weekend in our efforts to get her her first deer. I also showed her the "secrete pawpaw patch" and we had a rock skipping session as well. Trying to teach a lefty while I'm a righty has its challenges!

Also had to have a little chit-chat with a neighbor about his boys and their ATVS and the property line.....that will be interesting to see how that progresses.....he is a county sheriff....I really just want them to stay on their property....they can run the ATV's all they want....on their side of the line!

My plot beans are still green, but I think I have one of my 3 chestnut burrs just starting to open! Looks like a single bur on another tree was aborted as it isn't near the size as the others and just looks sort of "sick".

I anticipate being out getting more stands ready tomorrow.... I hopefully get some pics!!!

 

[j-bird]

Well I got out sunday a bit as well. The chestnuts are just starting to open. Trying to keep close tabs on the three I have as I would really like to collect these and grow them if possible.


The water hole is very low....I will either need to add a liner or some clay......and maybe some rain! It has a lot of deer tracks around it which is good.....I just wish it had more water in it!


And the boy has decided he wants to go "old school" this year for gun season this year and was shooting a rifle that was my grandfathers. Its a sporterized mid 40's British 303 Enfield.......not exactly a known deer slayer, but if he is happy....go for it!


Nothing deer wise of interest on the vine cam, other than the deer continue to visit it and I have really noticed how the deer eat almost anything green along he logging path where the sun reaches. I did find a bur oak dropping some acorns but not much evidence of deer. The acorns are small for what I normally see so maybe these are stressed or something....not sure.

Also noticed this guy on a sycamore leaf as well. Not sure what he turns into but, sometimes we miss the small things.....

 

[CTM1]

My father's hunting gun was also a sporterized British 303 Enfield, he even made his own stock. The first time he went hunting with it he placed it on the hood of the truck as he got ready. My Uncle slammed the door to the truck and the gun slid off and hit the pavement. It cracked the back end of the stock that he had just finished a few weeks before.

This year marks 30 years since Dad passed. I have not taken his rifle out for at least 23 years. Your post and your sons desire to go old school makes me think it is time to take out Dad's old 303 for a few sits this season. The last deer it took was the only deer it ever took and that was a little 6 point in 1986. My Dad's only buck in his entire life.

Good luck to your son and nice that he is going "old school".

 

[j-bird]

My father's hunting gun was also a sporterized British 303 Enfield, he even made his own stock. The first time he went hunting with it he placed it on the hood of the truck as he got ready. My Uncle slammed the door to the truck and the gun slid off and hit the pavement. It cracked the back end of the stock that he had just finished a few weeks before.

This year marks 30 years since Dad passed. I have not taken his rifle out for at least 23 years. Your post and your sons desire to go old school makes me think it is time to take out Dad's old 303 for a few sits this season. The last deer it took was the only deer it ever took and that was a little 6 point in 1986. My Dad's only buck in his entire life.

Good luck to your son and nice that he is going "old school".

Get that gun out and re-connect. If nothing else just get it out and clean it real good...... I bet it puts a smile on your face an a tear in your eye. And that's OK...... As long as those folks are alive in our hearts and our minds.....they are never really gone!

 

[Familytradition]

This was the first time my DNR has made that much info available to us in the roughly 20 years I have been deer hunting. We typically only get the actual harvest numbers and that is it. Also keep in mind that "10" you refer to is actually 8.6 and is per square mile of habitat.....that number drops to roughly 2 deer harvested per physical square mile county wide.....think about that the lack of habitat and thus deer numbers to the point that on average only 2 deer are harvested every square mile (640 acres). All while ANY hunter can kill as many as 7 deer in that same county if they so desire. Seems like a "kill every one you see if you want" sort of management message to me........

IDNR seems in no hurry to change. Ruined my home county with urban/reduction/slaughter zone. How dare I want to hunt where I live with my family.


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[j-bird]

IDNR seems in no hurry to change. Ruined my home county with urban/reduction/slaughter zone. How dare I want to hunt where I live with my family.


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All I know is the state as a whole seems to be following in the footsteps of some other states that are in real bad shape right now and I want to avoid that. As such I am trying to stay as active and be a part of positive change for the entire state. My specific county isn't bad.....but it was never great to begin with. I like the fact the DNR has shared more actual data, but now it's time to develop a true plan and use data to define that plan and monitor the success or lack of it. The pilot CDAC's are great, but I think we need one for every county AND the need to be given some actual credit. Right now I think the DNR pretty much ignored them. The DNR is too much of a political tool right now and until hunters organize and essentially force the issue things are not going to change.....

 

[Familytradition]

It has been several years since we have had a governor that listened to hunters. Quail, pheasant, and grouse are gone. Deer numbers are the lowest that they have been in my lifetime, but we might get to trap a single bobcat. I want my son to be able to hunt, not just take strolls through the woods. I'm educated as a scientist and I'm telling everyone that IDNR has no idea how to manage game animals. If they mess it up terribly, I can fence the farm and start a shooting pen.


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[j-bird]

It has been several years since we have had a governor that listened to hunters. Quail, pheasant, and grouse are gone. Deer numbers are the lowest that they have been in my lifetime, but we might get to trap a single bobcat. I want my son to be able to hunt, not just take strolls through the woods. I'm educated as a scientist and I'm telling everyone that IDNR has no idea how to manage game animals. If they mess it up terribly, I can fence the farm and start a shooting pen.


Sent from my iPhone using Deer Hunter Forum

Unfortunately the IDNR is a political tool now....... If I wanted to shoot something behind a fence I would have cattle. Not sure if you do the facebook thing or not but there is a group or two there that is trying to push for some change that may be of interest to you.

 

[j-bird]

Well it's the free youth deer hunt weekend here in the Hoosier state. As such I headed out this morning with my youngest in our continued efforts to get her her first deer.

We started off the morning with a traditional deer hunters breakfast. She had oatmeal and I have strawberry pop-tarts and milk....I also had to make sure nobody would let the dogs outside while we hunted....because they would eventually find us and disrupt the hunt.


We walked out to the shooting house and had a bit of a late start and bumped 2 deer off the food plot....

Below is facing east as the sun comes up over the soybean field.....


This is overlooking the plot and hour or so later.....


Somebody was n pretty good spirits for not seeing any deer during shooting light.... We gave up after about 9am as the temp started to rise over 70.


We did check my chestnut trees in the plot as they had burrs that had started to open last weekend and I wanted to beat the critters to them.....I was thrilled to be able to get my first actual chestnuts. These trees where planted as 3 gallon trees in 2014. Not sure if the small bits of them will become much, but I plan on putting the larger ones into the fridge and plant come spring!

 

[j-bird]

With hunting season here....I need to focus on that, but I also need to plan for projects for next year as well. So I have a few things in mind that hopefully I can get accomplished next year and get started on as soon as season closes.

#1 - post season scout the follow tracks in the snow, find bedding areas and scrapes and rubs to learn/confirm how the deer are using my property. (winter)
#2 - Cut the woody brush out of one of my CRP areas as part of it's on-going management. (winter)
#3 - address the johnsongrass in my native grass plantings (spring/summer)
#4 - Tree planting and care (spring)
a - plant and cage my SWO acorns & my few chestnuts
b - plant and protect my 6 crab apples coming from Turkey creek
c - put tree tubes on my sawtooth/catscrath oaks
#5 - make water hole deeper and line with clay or liner or replace with "pool" (spring)
#6 - north triangle project.....orchard or perennial plot? Maybe both. (winter/spring)
#7 - expand my MG screen planting. (spring/summer)

Fall is for hanging stands and hunting....no habitat work in the fall other than prepping for the habitat season....

 

[Native Hunter]

For #3 check out outrider herbicide. I don't have any JG in my NWSGs but I'm killing it in a neighbors C3 grass field. I remember seeing on the label that it can be used in NWSGs but didn't look at the details.