A Soil Test

[Crimson n' Camo]

Specie #12: Pigweed

I hear some folks panicking already…… This is one of those times when I’m testing a theory. I’m betting that the biodiversity will keep the pigweed in check and it’ll only be one component of the mix. We’ll see if that turns out to be a good bet or not. One thing positive about pigweed from my understanding is that it has a lot of root structure with a deep tap root. To me that sounds like good soil building characteristics. There are definitely a couple different types of beetles that like to eat on it.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Here’s our larger shot of the field as of today….The old rye crop is pretty well on the ground and covered over with growth now. See how the clover in the foreground is suppressing the other grass and broadleaf growth……that is what I’m shooting for next year across the whole field. I'm still good with those other components coming in later on in the summer but the clover should balance things out a little more with a much larger legume component. Also, I’m wondering if I can delay the emergence of the other broadleafs until the clover goes dormant.....which should make them young and palatable during the latter summer months instead of having them grow tall and tough by that time. All the seed heads on the left is the yuchi seeding back out after the mowing and the clover to its right is the durana.

 

[Jason Broom]

Improved fertility, timely mowing and selective broadcasting of seed...there are many ways of managing a "food plot".

Over time, it seems to me what you're creating is a brand new "old field". If you could go back 5 or 6 years, broadcasting lime and fertilizer as indicated, spraying if needed, discing but lightly, seeding for diversity...could you have achieved this end result much sooner? Thank you very much for helping us all to understand how the goal should never be a monoculture, and how achieving success is mostly about understanding nature and working WITH it.

By all means, continue to think deep and express those thoughts. We're all learning right along with you, now that you've opened our collective mind to the possibilities.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Improved fertility, timely mowing and selective broadcasting of seed...there are many ways of managing a "food plot".

Over time, it seems to me what you're creating is a brand new "old field". If you could go back 5 or 6 years, broadcasting lime and fertilizer as indicated, spraying if needed, discing but lightly, seeding for diversity...could you have achieved this end result much sooner? Thank you very much for helping us all to understand how the goal should never be a monoculture, and how achieving success is mostly about understanding nature and working WITH it.

By all means, continue to think deep and express those thoughts. We're all learning right along with you, now that you've opened our collective mind to the possibilities.

The biggest mistake I feel like I made in the beginning was not recognizing the important role that crabgrass was playing. When the things I tried to plant struggled and the field was eventually taken over by the crabgrass….I guess I thought my soil building process was over until I could plant something else. I should have still been pampering the field with small, periodic doses of nitrogen the whole time…..I should have gotten small doses of lime on it a litter sooner as well. I was learning about “cover crops” and I had my mindset focused on fixing everything through buckwheat and daikon radishes, etc……I didn’t appreciate how truly bad my soil conditions were and what it needed to get it out of the hole. Really sandy soil in the deep south makes for a perfect storm of really BAD conditions.

If I could go back, I think I could be where I’m at now a little sooner but not a whole lot....it's still a long term process no matter what you do. Keep in mind that I could have a much different looking field of clover growing already this year if the drought we had last fall wouldn’t have kept me from reseeding my clovers. It was nothing but straight rye last year. I’m gonna make a much more diverse fall mix this year with some type of brassica also added in.

 

[IkemanTx]

I'm going to be putting together a seed order soon for a first time throw and mow plot. I am planning on the standard LC mix of Rye and clover, and have thought of doing some brassicas and chicory.
When doing throw and mow, with a blend like that, how would I decide upon quantities of each seed? I don't want to overcrowd the plot and stunt growth, but also don't want it too thin. Any poundage recommendations?


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[Jason Broom]

I'm going to be putting together a seed order soon for a first time throw and mow plot. I am planning on the standard LC mix of Rye and clover, and have thought of doing some brassicas and chicory.
When doing throw and mow, with a blend like that, how would I decide upon quantities of each seed? I don't want to overcrowd the plot and stunt growth, but also don't want it too thin. Any poundage recommendations?


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A total of about 80lbs/acre of winter rye, 6-8lbs/acre of clovers, 5lbs/acre of radish and 1 pound/acre of chicory.

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[Crimson n' Camo]

When deciding what seeding rates to use, I think you need to take into account the size of the plots and the deer density...... LC recommended 150 lbs of cereal rye because his mix was tailored toward heavy grazing pressure…..therefore he increased the stocking density of his cereal grain. I use 100-150 lbs on my 2 acre plot, feeding a relatively high deer density at the peak of winter. If I were planting a 15-20 acre field though…..I may decrease that rate a little because the total amount of forage would be so large at that point. I’d go 10-12 lbs for clover depending on varieties used and 2-3 lbs on a brassica component….like turnips, rape, or radish.

Poor soil conditions in the beginning may also call for increasing seeding rate at first.

 

[dogghr]

Specie #12: Pigweed

I hear some folks panicking already…… This is one of those times when I’m testing a theory. I’m betting that the biodiversity will keep the pigweed in check and it’ll only be one component of the mix. We’ll see if that turns out to be a good bet or not. One thing positive about pigweed from my understanding is that it has a lot of root structure with a deep tap root. To me that sounds like good soil building characteristics. There are definitely a couple different types of beetles that like to eat on it.

No worries here. I use to worry of this stuff till I saw how deer, birds, and bear love it for cover and food. Browse heavy by deer on stems and berries when they show. I have several thickets and always jump young and old deer out of them. Walked to within 20 yards of momma bear and her 3 cubs last year. Huge taproot, and good screening until late Dec. Better than EW.

 

[IkemanTx]

A total of about 80lbs/acre of winter rye, 6-8lbs/acre of clovers, 5lbs/acre of radish and 1 pound/acre of chicory.

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When deciding what seeding rates to use, I think you need to take into account the size of the plots and the deer density...... LC recommended 150 lbs of cereal rye because his mix was tailored toward heavy grazing pressure…..therefore he increased the stocking density of his cereal grain. I use 100-150 lbs on my 2 acre plot, feeding a relatively high deer density at the peak of winter. If I were planting a 15-20 acre field though…..I may decrease that rate a little because the total amount of forage would be so large at that point. I’d go 10-12 lbs for clover depending on varieties used and 2-3 lbs on a brassica component….like turnips, rape, or radish.

Poor soil conditions in the beginning may also call for increasing seeding rate at first.

The soil conditions are very similar to the original field conditions in your sandy plot, CNC. It is VERY sandy, drains quickly, almost zero OM, and fortunately low deer densities.
Total plot is just about 1/3 of an acre so I should probably over plant at least a little to overcome the browse.


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[Rickey]

Crimson,
I don't think I am much farther from where you started. I am going to get another soil sample next spring to compare against my last one. I have steadily planted and put small amounts of pelletized lime down. So far I have not added a lot of fertilizer though I have added some. When I first started I thought I could just plant away. Then I found you guys and changed my philosophy. This is going to take time and I have now accepted it though my patience is always thin wanting more.

 

[Rempump870]

like the others on this thread and working to take my very sandy soil and improve it with the WR/Clover/radish LC mix

Checked the plots over the weekend and the clover and rye are going pretty good. The combo has seemingly kept the weeds to a minimum. The farmer had his brush hog out and offered to mow the plots, so they are mowed down. The soil test came in at 5.7 this past spring. I added 400 lbs per plot (1/2acre) and putting down another 1,000lbs per plot of pel lime this weekend.

I am not sure if you can see in the picture but there is a fair amount of debris on the field and I am sure there will be a lot more now that is mowed. I am thinking of dragging the plots with a spiked tooth drag when I plant in late July to help loosen that layer up and increase seed to soil contact for when I roll it. Will the drag hurt the OM layer like disking would? I am guessing the drag might also stir up some weed seeds in the soil bank, witch could be a bad thing.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

like the others on this thread and working to take my very sandy soil and improve it with the WR/Clover/radish LC mix

Checked the plots over the weekend and the clover and rye are going pretty good. The combo has seemingly kept the weeds to a minimum. The farmer had his brush hog out and offered to mow the plots, so they are mowed down. The soil test came in at 5.7 this past spring. I added 400 lbs per plot (1/2acre) and putting down another 1,000lbs per plot of pel lime this weekend.

I am not sure if you can see in the picture but there is a fair amount of debris on the field and I am sure there will be a lot more now that is mowed. I am thinking of dragging the plots with a spiked tooth drag when I plant in late July to help loosen that layer up and increase seed to soil contact for when I roll it. Will the drag hurt the OM layer like disking would? I am guessing the drag might also stir up some weed seeds in the soil bank, witch could be a bad thing.

View attachment 7801 View attachment 7802

Short answer: You need to think BIOMASS and root structure right now......and quit worrying about “weeds”. Welcome to the club……..

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Specie # 13: Horsenettle

Some would say wildflower some would say noxious weed . It’s known for a deep root structure…..again a quality soil building characteristic. It has been browsed slightly on a couple stems but not heavily. Only a few of these present right now.......

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Specie # 14: Ragweed

A good bit of ragweed is coming in. I’ve got a buffer around the edge of my field that’s full of it so I’m sure that’s helped it to encroach. I forget the exact numbers but if you’ll look back in that link on the nutritive value of field weeds I think you’ll find it to be one that’s pretty high on the list from a protein and digestible matter perspective.

Check this one out that’s growing near a common entry trail. This part of my field really gets hammered hard and makes it even that much tougher to get things growing in this particular part of the plot.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Specie # 15: Horseweed or Marestail


This one you’ll really hear cursed a lot. Remember….we don’t have to be farmers……we’re deer & habitat managers. I’ve found this one to get browsed a good bit. It’s not hard at all to find a browsed plant when walking around my field. Again, go back and check out the nutritive value. The deer eat the tops out of the plants but don’t browse it heavily enough to really stunt it. Most of the time it’ll bush out from the browsed stalk. I don’t know for sure but I would bet the roots may also tiller when this happens. It’s probably the most prolific broadleaf in my field right now. If I had any concerns about on single plant right now it might be this one. I think things will work themselves out though as the soil building continues.

 

[Rempump870]

Short answer: You need to think BIOMASS and root structure right now......and quit worrying about “weeds”. Welcome to the club……..

Ands it a good club! Love working with the dirt to improve it! Do you think dragging the spike tooth drag will disrupt the biomass too much? If I don't drag it, not sure how I get the seeds to contact the soil!

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Ands it a good club! Love working with the dirt to improve it! Do you think dragging the spike tooth drag will disrupt the biomass too much? If I don't drag it, not sure how I get the seeds to contact the soil!

If you need to do that this time then go ahead....you'll be fine. Long term the way you get rid of that biomass on the soil surface is by putting a thick canopy of new vegetation over it and allowing a very active microbial community to consume it before your fall planting. It will take some time for your microbial community to really get going. They need a home to live in first.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Specie # 16: Goldenrod

I’m pretty sure this is goldenrod but someone correct me if you think I’m wrong. A classic wildflower with very showy yellow flowers in the late summer. I’ve seen it readily browsed but this one has not been. It’s not very prevalent in the field right now and just getting a foothold here and there.

 

[Baker]

Lots of goldenrod on my farm. Beautiful in the fall and great for bees. However I see very little and rare use. Then again my deer are spoiled.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Lots of goldenrod on my farm. Beautiful in the fall and great for bees. However I see very little and rare use. Then again my deer are spoiled.

I found a patch of some goldenrod last year on the other side of my property that was hit pretty hard but it was later in the summer. I'll keep on eye on what's growing in the field and see if they eventually browse it. They seem to like some plants at certain stages of growth. The teaweed for example. They won't browse it until later on. Beautyberry is the one I never see used here even though its often listed.