A Soil Test

[Crimson n' Camo]

Check it out D!!!.....



When I started this whole project several years back I had a field of sand with a CEC of less than 2…….Ca levels at 300 lbs/ac……pH of 5.0……..OM% of less than 1%......

Today I have a substantial layer of topsoil with the ability to hold nutrients......

The CEC of that topsoil today is now 13 instead of 2…….my Ca levels are over 4,000 lbs/ac instead of 300……my pH is 7.0 instead of 5.0…….and my OM% is….well, I’m still waiting on that test to come back lol!….But I think it will likely show a substantial increase as indicated by the rise in CEC. Significant changes in the matter of a few years. In the beginning many argued that no-tilling wasn’t worth it because it would take a lifetime to make a difference. I think 3-5 years is a reasonable time frame though to make BIG improvements. I’m on year 4 or 5 now but I’ve spent a lot of time with trial and error. I feel like if I had it to do over again I could do it more efficiently, Chalk it up to the cost of experimenting………..

 

[cutman]

Looks awesome. I have an area I want to do that with but the deer eat everything so quickly that nothing grows tall enough to mow into thatch.

 

[gut_pile]

Very cool

 

[Jason Broom]

It's been very generous of you to share your experiences during this journey CnC. I genuinely appreciate your thoughts and efforts in exploring alternatives to traditional tillage and plant selection. You challenged many of us to think differently and test new ideas that we might otherwise have considered. You are one of a handful of people who have influenced many to give Throw-n-Mow a try...and now many folks are jumping onto that particular bandwagon. Thanks for all of the effort you've put into this.

 

[dogdoc]

Aww-you posted my favorite yearly photo. Always looked forward to your annual dig. Amazing what you have done in the last 5 years. Was always one of my favorite threads in the old forum.
Todd

 

[Hoosierhunting]

Awesome CnC, I've learned tons from you and Dgallow and really appreciate the work you put into your threads helping the rest of us.

 

[dgallow]

That is awesome right there considering the lifeless soil at start. I can remember a younger CnC quoting a Japanese farmer and receiving a lot of flack for such. Being non-mainstream sure paid in dividends!

Figure the only thing you need from the COOP now is seed! Suspect your soil OM is 3-4 now which is more than triple the water holding capacity.

This exemplifies what I have preached for years...that diverse plant roots, active soil biology and a year round supply of diverse solar panels are all which is needed to create vibrant soil. If your 4-5 yr results don't sway opinions then those minds simply won't change!

This stage is just the beginning for you....and now you have developed the patience to take it further. when the water cycle, mineral cycle, diversity and energy flow become optimum then incredible environmental resilience occurs.

As you continue this journey and hit a wall....which you will....then think about bigger plants with deeper roots to push through that.

I'd be real interested to see what the NWSG and forbs can do in your soils! That is where I've seen the biggest soil changes for the least input!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lakngolf]

Great results CnC. Every time I typed CnC phone changed it to Inc. So maybe you need to incorporate and go into management business.
How old are those boys now?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

How old are those boys now?

They'll turn 8 in a couple months. Thanks for asking. It's hard to believe that many years have went by already. They just finished up first grade. All A's between the two of them except for one B in spelling.

 

[dogghr]

Yea like others, I always loved that pic. And as said, I remember the arguments on the other forum of how your process would never work in a reasonable amount of time. Great stuff.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Thanks fellas! I’m looking at it as if I’m now hitting stage two in the process. My soil is now conditioned enough that I can finally actually grow something. When your soil is in the condition that mine was originally in….you really can’t just plant this or that and watch it thrive. Back then even the crabgrass would show heavy stress because the conditions were so harsh.


Now though, the field has much better growing conditions and it has transitioned from a summer field dominated by crabgrass……to a much more diverse mix of over 20+ different species of grasses, broadleafs, and legumes. I suspect that some of those broadleafs will really thrive now and dig deeper with their roots. I think the heavy grass came in as the initial band-aid to create that first layer of topsoil that you see in my soil profile pic.


We experienced a severe drought last fall that really set me back on what I wanted to do. It turned dry here in Sept a couple weeks ahead of my normal planting time and didn’t rain again until Thanksgiving. It got to the point where most folks didn’t even know if we would be able to have plots.


I had originally planned on seeding a diverse mix of clovers into my fall mix but scratched the idea after the drought hit. I was afraid that it would just be a waste. I still had some come back from volunteer seed though that I planted a couple years ago and it has thrived this spring. This is a picture of a patch of yuchi clover I took this morning that’s trying to go to seed. Look how the deer have hammered it. The rye is protecting enough of it that some is able to go ahead and put out seed heads.

This is how the patches looked earlier this spring before the deer started browsing it so heavily.....

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

This last lime application really stuck. It was applied a little over a year ago but this was the first test since then. I had added lime two years prior to that but it only brought my Ca up to 900 lbs/ac from 300 lbs/ac……and the pH from 5 to mid 5’s. This last lime application really got it up there though to 4100 lbs. I wonder if it’s due to me having more organic matter this time and so much more holding capacity? My CEC a couple years ago when tested was still only 4.56…..Things seem to have made huge strides in the last couple years. The dark layer of topsoil has gotten a couple inches deeper but the more noticeable change is that is seems to be getting richer….or a higher %OM. I’d like to be able to start working on the subsoil now. I did have a little NWSG starting to creep into the field last summer. Maybe I’ll see more appear this year.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

The field grew a really nice stand of cereal rye this spring. I’m holding the camera above my head in this pic. There’s a 4ft basket with orange flagging on it just out in front of me that’s buried in rye. Due to the drought…..that was about as complicated as I got with it though this past go around.

This is that cereal rye crop as of today. I’m just letting it transition naturally to field of summer vegetation as the deer stomp it down. It was all standing pretty well until some recent heavy wind and rain. You can’t tell in this pic but there’s a lot of stuff that’s sprouted underneath the hay that will eventually burst through. I just topped my K levels off and added a low dose of N to give things a little boost. Now you can see the basket......

 

[Mennoniteman]

Looks awesome. I have an area I want to do that with but the deer eat everything so quickly that nothing grows tall enough to mow into thatch.

Have you tried rye? If your deer can keep rye from growing you've got a major deer problem. Or you're very limited on tillable land.

 

[cutman]

Have you tried rye? If your deer can keep rye from growing you've got a major deer problem. Or you're very limited on tillable land.

Oh yeah I've tried rye. I've tried everything. The only thing I haven't tried is an electric fence, so maybe that's in the cards for this year.

 

[Jason Broom]

If you've tried winter rye, and don't get a good stand of it the following spring, you need to dramatically reduce your deer population, dramatically increase the number of acres planted, or both! Even with pretty high deer numbers, you should see rye growing well the following spring. What is the DPSM number in your local area? Any way you can get friends or relatives to come in and help with a targeted doe hunt?

 

[cutman]

This is a weird little plot. For whatever reason (minerals in the soil?) deer absolutely love it. It appears to especially attract bucks. The problem is...it's pretty much sand. It dries out immediately after rain, so it's a constant battle for moisture.

The property has 40 acres of clearcut pines that should provide ample food for deer. There are also 60 acres of hardwoods. Neighbor has about 600 acres of managed land.

I get 10 doe tags for the property, and 2 buck tags. Problem is there are s lot more bucks than does. Also, I can grow plots elsewhere on the property, so it's not like the deer eat everything to the ground.

This plot is stuck in a bad cycle:

1) crappy sand --> trying to improve
2) plant buckwheat, millet, rye, oats, sorghum, etc to try to get organic matter growing
3) deer eat whatever pops up
4) can't establish thatch layer so can't practice throw n mow
5) still crappy sand

Very aggravating. I don't have access to a no till drill on this property, so if I can't do throw n mow I've got to stick with conventional methods of disking, broadcasting, cultipacking.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I understand where he’s coming from. Many of the sandy plots I see around here don’t produce cereal grains in the spring because the soil is too unproductive. You gotta get yourself out of the initial hole. You’re not gonna do it with things like buckwheat or sunnhemp, etc….They’ll get eat to a nub and struggle to recover. You’ll have to grow the things that God put on this Earth to repair soil in that type condition and you’ll have to pamper them along with frequent, small additions of soil amendments.


Most of the improvement you see from my soil has come from crabgrass during the summer months. I've tried growing all kinds of things but they either struggled in the poor soil conditions..... or they were demolished by browsing pressure and couldn't recover due to poor soil conditions. Hit that rye with low doses of N every 6-8 weeks……That’s about how long a N application will last in sand. Eventually, you’ll have some organic N in that topsoil to help run on..... but not in the beginning. Eventually, you’ll be able to grow N producing plants and recycle them….but not in the beginning. Hit your summer grasses with some too. Make sure to keep your other nutrients balanced and for sure start getting lime on it if you haven't already. If you're not growing some type of natural summer grass then maybe try growing a heavy stand of millet. You gotta get some type of biomass growing.

 

[Vandy]

Awesome job

 

[Mennoniteman]

This is a weird little plot. For whatever reason (minerals in the soil?) deer absolutely love it. It appears to especially attract bucks. The problem is...it's pretty much sand. It dries out immediately after rain, so it's a constant battle for moisture.

The property has 40 acres of clearcut pines that should provide ample food for deer. There are also 60 acres of hardwoods. Neighbor has about 600 acres of managed land.

I get 10 doe tags for the property, and 2 buck tags. Problem is there are s lot more bucks than does. Also, I can grow plots elsewhere on the property, so it's not like the deer eat everything to the ground.

This plot is stuck in a bad cycle:

1) crappy sand --> trying to improve
2) plant buckwheat, millet, rye, oats, sorghum, etc to try to get organic matter growing
3) deer eat whatever pops up
4) can't establish thatch layer so can't practice throw n mow
5) still crappy sand

Very aggravating. I don't have access to a no till drill on this property, so if I can't do throw n mow I've got to stick with conventional methods of disking, broadcasting, cultipacking.

I think I'd consider ryegrass in the spring when the deer have plenty of other food because deer won't eat the ryegrass. Then in late summer do the throw and mow. This plot location sounds like a money in the bank shooting plot that everyone wants to hunt on the first day! I love spots like that. And the challenge of trying to grow something that works