A Soil Test

[Mennoniteman]

Exactly!......One of the hardest things in the beginning of all of this was to get folks to recognize that we’re not just broadcasting seed on top of bare ground. In order to get seed to efficiently germinate in this manner then you need to first and foremost condition the soil so that’s it’s conducive to germinating seed in the fashion. Let’s take it a step further past just having enough thatch on the surface…….


What if we also had a 8-10 inch thick sponge full of water underneath our seed in addition to the thatch on the surface?....Wouldn’t that make the conditions even more favorable to good germination?

Great thread here, a lot of important info for guys just getting into food plots, and also a good primer for guys that have been at it for a while, as starting a new food plot often presents it's own set of challenges.
Farmers are farming fields that have been in production for hundreds of years, Hunters are often trying to start new plots on marginal soils.
Farmers often have the latest big equipment, Hunters often have very limited equipment.
Farmers usually have a budget for whatever fertilizer is needed, Hunters often have limited funds.
Farmers usually live close to their fields, Hunters often are several hours away.
Serious Farmers are full time, Hunters often miss the best time to plant.
"Throw & Mow" plotting will help you out on each one of these disadvantages that we have, and Crimson n' Camo has written the primer on it!

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

"Throw & Mow" plotting will help you out on each one of these disadvantages that we have, and Crimson n' Camo has written the primer on it!

I appreciate that but this is definitely not anything I invented. These ideas have been around for a long time and there were many other dominos that came before me. For anyone who feels like the lightbulb has gone off and you’re starting to really “see” things beyond just what’s on the surface….I’d recommend reading “The One Straw Revolution”. It’s a pretty interesting book about a Japanese farmer who figured these things out before I was even born. The book will help expand your thinking past just the initial “Ah ha!” moment and to a more holistic way of looking at what we’re doing. It doesn’t mean that you have to become a Buddhist and join a hippie commune after you finish reading it or anything….but it’s good to have this knowledge in your back pocket. We’re practicing the same principles and mimicking the same blue print.


http://www.appropedia.org/images/d/d3/Onestraw.pdf

 

[Mennoniteman]

I appreciate that but this is definitely not anything I invented. These ideas have been around for a long time and there were many other dominos that came before me. For anyone who feels like the lightbulb has gone off and you’re starting to really “see” things beyond just what’s on the surface….I’d recommend reading “The One Straw Revolution”. It’s a pretty interesting book about a Japanese farmer who figured these things out before I was even born. The book will help expand your thinking past just the initial “Ah ha!” moment and to a more holistic way of looking at what we’re doing. It doesn’t mean that you have to become a Buddhist and join a hippie commune after you finish reading it or anything….but it’s good to have this knowledge in your back pocket. We’re practicing the same principles and mimicking the same blue print.


http://www.appropedia.org/images/d/d3/Onestraw.pdf

I know this is off topic but I feel I need to comment on this book; This “The One Straw Revolution” author has some good agricultural insights in his book, but in the final chapters he intertwines farming with the meaning of life, and ends up coming up with an empty anti-government, anti-relativism rhetoric. To quote this fellows book (The love and hate which arise in the adult’s eyes originally were not two separate things. They are the same thing as seen from the front and from the back. Love gives substance to hate.) tells me that while he's a philosopher he's a long way from the truth. The truth is that love is not hate, it's a powerful force that could prevent a lot of wars.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

While I do agree that he gets philosophical and spiritual with what he talks about in the book….I really don’t think you have to dig so deep into it as to argue religion vs religion…..I just look at it from a spiritual perspective in a general way…..Recognizing the interconnective ties amongst everything around us and the way in which everything operates on a circular loop….how there is something greater than ourselves behind it…..Everybody’s got a little different way of explaining the details through religion. I don’t get too hung up on it when reading this book.


My main interest is from an agricultural perspective. The other things just help broaden your perspective on how others believe. I don’t really grasp exactly what he’s saying with that quote but I’m guessing its something to do with that religions view of how there are opposing forces in nature….the yin and the yang….I don’t know…Like I said, I didn’t dwell on those parts too hard.

 

[Turkish]

What pages have the good stuff and on what page does the propaganda start?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

What pages have the good stuff and on what page does the propaganda start?

I would just start at page 1 and draw your own conclusions.......

 

[Baker]

I read the book some years ago and enjoyed as well as learned from it all.

 

[Jason Broom]

I would just start at page 1 and draw your own conclusions.......

Sage advice for any educational endeavor.

 

[Turkish]

I would just start at page 1 and draw your own conclusions.......

Haha. My sarcasm wasn't clear.

First impression: Interesting and keeps my attention, but the mystique around this old white-haired hermit farmer dulled somewhat when I read he has a degree in microbiology.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Take note of how he uses clover. I found it interesting and it really changed my perception of growing clover on my property. Clover is one of the main building blocks of his farm but he uses it in a much different manner than how many use it in food plots. Clover is a legume that puts out nitrogen. It’s made to be a companion plant to other species. It’s what provides the fuel to those other species. It’s the catalyst for helping to push the whole cycle….growth, decomposition. We are fighting against the design of nature to try and grow “weed” free clover plots. Fueling those other plants is what the clover lives for.

 

[dgallow]

I understand where he’s coming from. Many of the sandy plots I see around here don’t produce cereal grains in the spring because the soil is too unproductive. You gotta get yourself out of the initial hole. You’re not gonna do it with things like buckwheat or sunnhemp, etc….They’ll get eat to a nub and struggle to recover. You’ll have to grow the things that God put on this Earth to repair soil in that type condition and you’ll have to pamper them along with frequent, small additions of soil amendments.


Most of the improvement you see from my soil has come from crabgrass during the summer months. I've tried growing all kinds of things but they either struggled in the poor soil conditions..... or they were demolished by browsing pressure and couldn't recover due to poor soil conditions. Hit that rye with low doses of N every 6-8 weeks……That’s about how long a N application will last in sand. Eventually, you’ll have some organic N in that topsoil to help run on..... but not in the beginning. Eventually, you’ll be able to grow N producing plants and recycle them….but not in the beginning. Hit your summer grasses with some too. Make sure to keep your other nutrients balanced and for sure start getting lime on it if you haven't already. If you're not growing some type of natural summer grass then maybe try growing a heavy stand of millet. You gotta get some type of biomass growing.

Some of the wisest soil wisdom words I've read on a forum in a long time! Keep the wheels rolling!

 

[John Barnes]

Take note of how he uses clover. I found it interesting and it really changed my perception of growing clover on my property. Clover is one of the main building blocks of his farm but he uses it in a much different manner than how many use it in food plots. Clover is a legume that puts out nitrogen. It’s made to be a companion plant to other species. It’s what provides the fuel to those other species. It’s the catalyst for helping to push the whole cycle….growth, decomposition. We are fighting against the design of nature to try and grow “weed” free clover plots. Fueling those other plants is what the clover lives for.

The clover is certainly fueling the grass and broadleaf weeds in my plot! Lol. Thinking I'm going to need to terminate it this fall and broadcast LC's brassica mix, and find a different spot for clover and rye.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Question: Does this look like good “long term” OM ???? Which goals are the most important in the beginning of the soil rebuilding process?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Nobody gonna take the bait???

A quote.............

“The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant, "What good is it?" If the land mechanism as a whole is good, then every part is good, whether we understand it or not. If the biota, in the course of aeons, has built something we like but do not understand, then who but a fool would discard seemingly useless parts? To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.”

--- Aldo Leopold

 

[dogghr]

Ah you using one of my fav quotes from him that applies to a lot of plant and animals in our habitat management and our assumption we can deem what is important and what is not.
Anyways Crimson, I don't know what that crap is in the pic, but my opinion of any dying plant or animal is that it is repurposing itself to contribute to the soil and even eventually future plant and animal life tho sometimes in ways we may not understand and sometimes not on the same timeline on which we humans base everything.
My part of the country is a great example of how to improve OM. Reclaiming strip mines when they are finished is really pretty amazing. They begin by backfilling the highwalls with some of the worst starting soils that could be possible. Yet within just a few years of tweaking the ph and nutrient levels, planting a variety of grasses and high N fixers, and low ph loving trees, within just a few years it is a jungle of which our bear , deer, elk, and multitude of wildlife thrive in. It remains self promoting without any further impact by man, and what looks like an impossible desert of disaster transforms into a rainforest type mecca.
Same is true and can be accomplished with any soil I believe if it can be done under these circumstances. As you preach, use what nature wants to use, get the soil on its way to at least minimal performance, reduce the human hand manipulation, and let nature do its stuff.
As for me this same philosophy applies to a lot of things in the realm of the Leoplold Landscape from plants to animals.
Man can be an arrogant SOB at times. Thanks again for this thread, always fun, and even moreso without the bickering.

 

[Jason Broom]

My part of the country is a great example of how to improve OM. Reclaiming strip mines when they are finished is really pretty amazing. They begin by backfilling the highwalls with some of the worst starting soils that could be possible. Yet within just a few years of tweaking the ph and nutrient levels, planting a variety of grasses and high N fixers, and low ph loving tree...

Imagine what might occur if the USDA and FDA approve the GMO American Chestnut and each "disaster" left behind by coal mining becomes an island of restoration for this iconic tree. It was once so prevalent, one can but assume it is very well-suited and would gradually claw a foot-hold into the forest around those islands. Would that not be an amazing "win-win" for Appalachian ecology?

 

[Mennoniteman]

Question: Does this look like good “long term” OM ???? Which goals are the most important in the beginning of the soil rebuilding process?

I can't see this image?

 

[Mennoniteman]

While I do agree that he gets philosophical and spiritual with what he talks about in the book….I really don’t think you have to dig so deep into it as to argue religion vs religion…..I just look at it from a spiritual perspective in a general way…..Recognizing the interconnective ties amongst everything around us and the way in which everything operates on a circular loop….how there is something greater than ourselves behind it…..Everybody’s got a little different way of explaining the details through religion. I don’t get too hung up on it when reading this book.


My main interest is from an agricultural perspective. The other things just help broaden your perspective on how others believe. I don’t really grasp exactly what he’s saying with that quote but I’m guessing its something to do with that religions view of how there are opposing forces in nature….the yin and the yang….I don’t know…Like I said, I didn’t dwell on those parts too hard.

Thanks for mentioning this book, don't think I was picking on you for posting the book as a reference. After all, in your post you mentioned a discalimer right up front: "It doesn’t mean that you have to become a Buddhist and join a hippie commune after you finish reading it" The book has some good points in soil building and cover crop farming, and what can happen when a non-farmer government officials make agricultural/ farming rules from the capital building without ever going outside. I was just astounded at some of his views at the end of it, it kind of went from rambling in the front to practical insights in farming in the middle to extremist utopian concepts at the end. So he says "100% of people should be farmers" Did he never go to a doctor for medicine? Didn't he ever use tools made of steel? When he preaches diversity in plants, and then says 100% of the people should be farmers he contradicts his own philosophy and loses his credibility with me. I was taught that when you can't trust a person in one thing that they say, you can't trust them in anything that they say.

 

[Lewi B]

Thanks again for this thread, always fun, and even moreso without the bickering.

X 2

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

That plant producing the long term OM in my last pic is actually dog fennel….aka summer cedar. It’s probably one of the top five most common “weeds” we have here in the southeast. Many people dismiss it is as a really bad plant with no use. That doesn’t really make sense though. If it didn’t serve a purpose, then it sure wouldn’t be so common. When I look at the early pioneer plant community…..I don’t see many other species that produce the type of high carbon woody biomass like dog fennel produces. Anything more woody than dogfennel and we’re talking about tree saplings. It's filling a niche.


Up until this point I’ve had mostly crabgrass growing in the field during the summer. Now that the conditions have changed, so has the makeup of plant species. I’ve got some dog fennel coming in this year where there hasn’t been any in the past....along with a much higher % of broadleaf plants. Dog fennel is probably gonna end up comprising 10-15% of my summer mix. A lot of folks would just see that as nasty weeds growing in their field but I’m looking at it as it bringing in another level of OM that will further prime the soil.

You can manage dog fennel pretty easily with timed mowings. I’m hoping though that the heavy clovers I plant this fall will keep the dog fennel suppressed enough that I don’t have to do that in order to keep it down to 10-15% or less......enough to produce more of that woody type of OM but not dominate the field. We’ll see what happens…….As conditions continue to change, I suspect so will the species makeup. Long term I'm looking for some NWSG to come along and put down roots....