The New Coyote and Other Predators..... Can You Win?

Interesting thread, thanks dogghr. Ever since I spotted the first coyotes on our property I started looking more and more into ways of hunting and trapping them. But the more I research the more I find that efforts to get rid of them seem to be counterproductive in the long run. Historically speaking we in America have been very successful at eradicating numerous species. Gray wolves, grizzlies, bison, and others were almost completely eliminated from the lower 48. Even white tailed deer numbers dropped precipitously. Only through conservation efforts in recent decades have these animals started to make a comeback. But the coyote is a completely different story. Following the eradication of the gray wolf at the turn of the twentieth century, efforts turned to the elimination of the coyote. But despite almost a century of pressure, coyote numbers have gone up, not down. Formerly their range was limited to an area west of the Mississippi. Now they are found in every state except Hawaii.
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As you can see from the map, they don't just survive under pressure, they thrive. Even with the encouragement of federal, state and local governments in the early 1900s, their range expanded as the pressure increased. In Montana, for example, around the turn of the century the government offered a bounty on wolves and coyotes. Over the course of about a decade, the wolf bounties went from over 20,000 down to about 17. Coyote harvests on the other hand stayed right around 30,000 for three decades. In the 1940s the US government developed new poisons to use specifically on coyotes because strychnine no longer worked. The problem was that strychnine killed them too quickly. If one coyote noticed another coyote dying after eating bait with strychnine, it learned to avoid it and taught its offspring to do the same. So three new poisons were developed, designed to kill them over the course of a week or two. As you can see from the map above, that didn't work out too well either.
So why were we able to eliminate wolves so efficiently but we can't seem to control coyote populations? I've heard some interesting theories on this and of course there's still some ongoing studies. But it seems like they have some impressive reproductive strategies. One theory is that when they do their howling at night, they are doing a role call. If one coyote fails to report for the role call, some how dominant females will then have larger litters the next go round. Whatever the mechanism, it seems like the more you kill, an even greater number will eventually come back. And this new population will tend to skew younger, and like human youngsters coyote youngsters tend to be more aggressive and less averse to taking risks.
So what's a habitat manager to do? I think you might be on the right track dogghr, we just might have to learn to accept them as a part of the environment. If one is bold enough to show itself I'll take a shot at it, but I've decided for my little property any serious effort at hunting and trapping would be fruitless and maybe make things worse. But I do like Swampcat's idea about creating better habitat for the coyotes preferred prey, namely rodents. Maybe if they can keep their stomach full on those then fawns might stand a better chance. Maybe a stretch, but from the evidence it looks like the yotes ain't going away any time soon.
That's some interesting info and map you show Tex. Hadn't seen how govnt worked to eradicate the predators with decent success except for the wily coyote. Also interesting how the map shows the migration of the coyote which in my mind corresponds to the heavy logging of the East in the first half of last century which made dramatic changes in the makeup of the eastern forests and its inhabitants.
And as for the howling or yapping of yotes, I've seen they reduce the amount they do when being actively hunted or trapped.
Many on here may not remember the cartoon the Road Runner. I watched it all the time and it was about Wil E. Coyote as he repeatedly tried to catch the fast running ground bird, the Road Runner. Never would have thot years later I would become so obsessed with all the Wil E's of the world.
I’m not overrun with yotes, but reading about fawn survival makes me wonder what’s going on at my place. It’s uncommon to see a doe without 2 or 3 fawns in the fall. However, there’s very few coons, rabbits, groundhogs etc.
my best guess is that the turkeys are keeping the yotes fed. It’s a common sight to drive by a cut corn field near my property and see 50-80 turkeys out there. Perhaps the yotes around me have adapted to hunt down the turkeys in April-June. Think about it, every time they gobble they’re telling everything in the woods where they are. It shouldn’t be hard for a yote to ambush them.


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I would agree with that but I know one 5 year study showed only one turkey taken by yotes. Not so sure my area doesn't see more predation on them than that.
Thanks for all the responses and hope it gives you some thinking as how to fight the problem in real and less frustrating methods. And thanks for keeping it civil. Wasn't quite that way on the old forum when I discussed it. I appreciate it.
I'll let the conversation continue for another week or so before we tackle another major player... the bear.
 
It is not uncommon to have yotes come quickly into our turkey calling the first couple of days of turkey season. The very first time I used turkey decoys, two yotes came out of no where and one grabbed one of my two decoys ten yards from me and shook it furiously like a coon hound shakes a coon. The yote quickly realized he had made a mistake dropped it and quickly escaped. The second coyote reacted as if shot and ran away within inches of the first. From that and the many times they have come into my turkey calling, I'm guessing that they pursue turkeys pretty regularly here.
 
Very interesting topic, thanks for starting the thread. When I left the east coast for boot camp over 20 years ago, I had never seen or heard a coyote.

I lived in Southern CA for 15 years and as you know, the coyotes are thick out there. The deer and turkey seem to get along ok while the coyotes generally focus their attention on ground squirrels and rabbits.

The rabbit and ground squirrel populations do vary from year to year and I do know that at times fawn predation by coyotes is very significant in western deer herds.

I've only witnessed coyotes running down an adult deer on one occasion but I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen regularly. I was archery deer hunting on the central coast of CA when a doe ran by. About 15 seconds later a coyote ran by on the same trail, then another and another and another. I'm not 100% sure these 4 coyotes caught up to the doe or not but they seemed to know what they were doing.

I'm back in SC for the holidays and heard a pack of coyotes shorty after dark. A very common sound back in CA but it was strange to hear them on the east coast.

I own land in NW North Carolina now and have heard there are coyotes around although I don't think they are as densely populated in the mountains as they are in SC.

Great conversation on coyotes, I look forward to the bear predation topic. We have a few of those roaming our place too.


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Very interesting topic, thanks for starting the thread. When I left the east coast for boot camp over 20 years ago, I had never seen or heard a coyote.

I lived in Southern CA for 15 years and as you know, the coyotes are thick out there. The deer and turkey seem to get along ok while the coyotes generally focus their attention on ground squirrels and rabbits.

The rabbit and ground squirrel populations do vary from year to year and I do know that at times fawn predation by coyotes is very significant in western deer herds.

I've only witnessed coyotes running down an adult deer on one occasion but I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen regularly. I was archery deer hunting on the central coast of CA when a doe ran by. About 15 seconds later a coyote ran by on the same trail, then another and another and another. I'm not 100% sure these 4 coyotes caught up to the doe or not but they seemed to know what they were doing.

I'm back in SC for the holidays and heard a pack of coyotes shorty after dark. A very common sound back in CA but it was strange to hear them on the east coast.

I own land in NW North Carolina now and have heard there are coyotes around although I don't think they are as densely populated in the mountains as they are in SC.

Great conversation on coyotes, I look forward to the bear predation topic. We have a few of those roaming our place too.


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Great info you share on their presence and affect in different parts of the country. I assuming the CA yote is more a midwestern plains size?
I don't have the time to trap. I think the best defense is some old wise does, and large blocks of thick cover. Then let the forces of nature duke it out.
Thanks Mark, as you said in short couple sentences what I tried to say in a rambling half page. :)
 
I've seen a few really big coyotes in CA but most are small. They appear to average around 35 pounds although I've never weighed one.

I checked my first of 7 trail cameras in western NC today. 1000 pictures and only 3 (same 3-shot sequence) had a coyote in it.


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Up where I hunt in MN, a coyote is almost a welcomed sign. My understanding is that wolves will kill coyote and fox if they're around. If they're presence tells me I don't have a pack of wolves in the neighborhood, I'm good with it.
 
I've seen a few really big coyotes in CA but most are small. They appear to average around 35 pounds although I've never weighed one.

I checked my first of 7 trail cameras in western NC today. 1000 pictures and only 3 (same 3-shot sequence) had a coyote in it.


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I dont have a lot of coyotes frequenting my land - I might go all year and not see one. I think I have a resident population of three or four that live in the area. I have some food plots where I have never got a picture of one and other food plots where I get a picture of one every three or four days. I NEVER get a picture of one at one of my hog feeders throwing corn. I always read where feeding will concentrate the predators because all the other animals are concentrated there as well. That is not the case at my place. I have actually been following coyote tracks in one of our rare snows - down a four wheeler trail that passes by a feeder. Tracks head out into the woods fifty yards from the feeder, and then come back to the trail fifty yards past the feeder. The frequency of pictures will definately increase during fawning season around good fawning cover. I have a two acre wheat/arrowleaf food plot where I get a pic of a coyote every few days - year round. May - July - I get pictures every night - sometimes up to three running together. I believe when fawns start hitting the ground - at least at my place - coyotes start intentionally hunting them. With almost no rabbits, quail, cotton rats, turkeys, or other small ground dwelling animals - a fawn would naturally be high on the list. I believe when you dont have many deer - like our area for a number of years - losing two or three fawns a year to coyotes is a big deal. If you have a lot of deer - losing a few fawns is insignificant.
 
Up where I hunt in MN, a coyote is almost a welcomed sign. My understanding is that wolves will kill coyote and fox if they're around. If they're presence tells me I don't have a pack of wolves in the neighborhood, I'm good with it.

I have also heard in the Dakotas, coyotes will run off red fox, and that red fox are much more successful duck nest predators than are coyotes - so better to have coyotes than foxes in that situation.
 
What was written about Kansas isn't as true as people from other states might believe.Our quail numbers have been in the toilet for years.Pheasant numbers not a whole lot better even in western Kansas.Alot of our issues are hawks and unfortunately we can't do anything about them other than provide good cover.Kansas is getting more armadillos which in some states have shown to be a nest predator.I have a friend that traps alot and he caught 15 yotes on my place and 1 mile adjoining in one direction and there are still some this year but I didn't find any dead fawns this spring as I usually do find several.Adult boar coons could easily kill a fawn so i trap coons and caught 16 last year.One of the best ways to control coons is squaling them because you may get several to come out of one tree and it can be done during the day and is fun.He will average 100 yotes 40 cats maybe 200 coon and alot of possums a year.Try contacting you state trappers assc. they will either set you up for auction fur guys to pickup hides or point you to someone else that sends to Canada to sell.
 
I got thinking about coyotes again.. What do you think about hunting them while they’re searching for fawns? As you have stated, harvesting them throughout the fall/winter doesn’t have a significant effect because another coyote will just take their place, but what about catching them in the act? (It’s legal to hunt them year-round in Michigan)


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I got thinking about coyotes again.. What do you think about hunting them while they’re searching for fawns? As you have stated, harvesting them throughout the fall/winter doesn’t have a significant effect because another coyote will just take their place, but what about catching them in the act? (It’s legal to hunt them year-round in Michigan)


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You are correct Chip. Recomended best time to hunt is month before fawn drop. Good time here is the first mowing in late May or early June of the hayfields as yotes are more on the prowl hunting for rodents. I honestly have only trapped late winter and just have other things to do come good weather. And I still contend less disruption of hierarchy of the pack means less fawn predation. At least that is how I see it on my property. I use to trap heavily for over 10 years on a property I hunted and honestly it made no difference in the coyote population that I could tell. I enjoyed the trapping but effective, Doubt it. Like pulling a fish out of a hole, another one quickly replaces it.

Side note studies especially in the south show less fawn predation in years of better fruit production. I found that really strange.
 
I got thinking about coyotes again.. What do you think about hunting them while they’re searching for fawns? As you have stated, harvesting them throughout the fall/winter doesn’t have a significant effect because another coyote will just take their place, but what about catching them in the act? (It’s legal to hunt them year-round in Michigan)

Winter only trapping of coyotes is not the same as spring trapping of coyotes. Winter is typically associated with harder times and tougher conditions - and coyotes range farther than is necessary in spring when all the animals in the woods are giving birth and staking out very small home territories. Coyotes also give birth in the spring, meaning they are not as likely to quickly up and move to occupy new territory when other coyotes are removed miles away. Fawns are most vulnerable during their first four weeks of life. Late spring coyote removal in my area often results in a couple of months time lapse before coyotes repopulate the area - maybe just enough time to save a fawn or two. All areas are not created equal. If you live in an area of lower deer densities, with liberal doe harvest, and you are doing everything you can with your habitat - saving an extra couple of fawns a year can make a big difference long term.
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Dogghr
I'm in the same camp as you. I really starting observing increasing coyote numbers 15 years ago (give or take ). I was pretty stressed out about it and went out of my way to kill everyone that I could.
I was wondering if I would have any deer left. Guess what, years later I still have plenty of deer, turkeys, and coyotes.
I dont give it a thought anymore.
Worm
 
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To add to the above^^^^
However, disrupting their routine during fawn season can't hurt in my opinion.
 

Typical of many of the studies that keep professing removal of coyotes will have no effect on fawn recruitment because the coyotes will move into the area where coyotes are trapped or - in this example - coyote reproduction capacity increases to equal out the losses - none of the researches seem to have the brain power to realize the migration of new coyotes or reproduction of remaining coyotes is not instantaneous.

You remove coyotes in April, May, and June - there is going to be a lag in time and population before they are replaced. And if that lag coincides with fawning season, it can make a difference. If you are doing everything you can with your habitat and still seeing fawn recruitment numbers below .5 - predator removal may be your only option.

A lot of folks have a lot of deer - too many in some cases - and they have this false perception everywhere is like that. It is not. In areas of dense population, predators could be your best friend. In areas of low deer density, predators might be your worst enemy. ;)
 
I would like to see a study of ground nesting bird success in areas with spring coyote control. We humans always like to think we are in control!

There have been a number of studies focused on nesting success and in most of them, coons account for the majority of the damage. But the difference between coons and coyotes is the coon does not usually kill the nesting hen - allowing for another nest attempt. Coyotes often kill the hen. A five year nesting study on AR turkeys showed at least one - if not two years - where not a single telemetry equipped hen out of sixty so equipped, successfully raised a nest. Most failures were due to predation.
 
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