Soil updates, need advice

[weekender21]

I took samples on two plots last week.

First was created in September 2018. Two applications of pelletized lime (2018/2019). PH has moved from 5.6 to 6.7. and OM is 11%. I’ve never fertilized but probably should.

I don’t think I have a previous text on this plot. It was created in March 2019, added lime once (2019). PH 6.0, OM 12.2 %.

Any recommendations other than add lots of P?

I’m planning to broadcast BW directly into my fall plot in May or June then spray in August or September prior to broadcasting my fall plot of cereal grains, clover, and brassicas.

Should I fertilize when I plant BW or wait for my fall planting?


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[dogghr]

Could argue it either way but I'd Fert at fall planting. Im not as concerned of summer feed as I am getting optimum fall /winter production. I would also add lime to second plot this year. Not sure what your present plot is, but unless its a heavy N producer then adding N with the Fert or Urea may spur your growth especially of brassica. I'd want my brassica in the ground late July, early Aug . Free advice, not worth much. Good luck.

 

[weekender21]

Could argue it either way but I'd Fert at fall planting. Im not as concerned of summer feed as I am getting optimum fall /winter production. I would also add lime to second plot this year. Not sure what your present plot is, but unless its a heavy N producer then adding N with the Fert or Urea may spur your growth especially of brassica. I'd want my brassica in the ground late July, early Aug . Free advice, not worth much. Good luck.

Both plots were planted last September with WR, WW, oats, radishes (and a few other brassicas), 5 species of clover, and AWP. Maybe a few more I forgot. I’ve added lime but no fertilizer and haven’t tilled.

Plot one:

Plot two:

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[dogghr]

Plots look great. Since you didn’t add fert I would fert 19-19-19 w fall planting. And if you are including a 40%+ of brassica I would add urea also. You can skip urea but brassica are N addicts. They can’t get enough. Following years go no N with fert applications perhaps. You have a great start. Mixing grains , clovers , and brassca in a plot is crazy. And that’s what I do. Perhaps plant brassica early Aug w fert then overseed w grain and clovers 30-60 days later which is what I have done before. That elevation is tricky.


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[coolbrze0]

Love them mountain plots! I plant about the same stuff here in the mtns of VA.

 

[George]

one thing, if the lime that you add is dolomitic which is high in magnesium you are adding mg to soil that is already high in mg you start to lock up potassium. I figured this out in Iowa.

G

 

[buckhunter10]

That OM% is unbelievable!! There is a lot of variability in OM readings in conventional soil testing - so if it changes next year up or down, do not be disappointed, just try to notice a trend over 10 years.

Are you tilling these plots? I would suggest not, as your CEC suggests more sand, higher likelihood of erosion and leaching.

I would not fertilize at all, I don't believe it is needed. Phosphorus is often banked in the soil, in high amounts. The best and most efficient way to make P available is through symbiotic relationships with plant and fungal networks. I would keep planting diverse mixes, keep the soil covered, reduce soil disturbance, and you will be all set.

Lastly, depending on when you took this test - (Jan-March) microbial activity is less, than during the growing season. This is a result of often showing lesser Phosphorus than is actually bio-available.

Hope this helps.

AT

 

[weekender21]

one thing, if the lime that you add is dolomitic which is high in magnesium you are adding mg to soil that is already high in mg you start to lock up potassium. I figured this out in Iowa.

G

Great point. I had not thought of that.


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[weekender21]

That OM% is unbelievable!! There is a lot of variability in OM readings in conventional soil testing - so if it changes next year up or down, do not be disappointed, just try to notice a trend over 10 years.

Are you tilling these plots? I would suggest not, as your CEC suggests more sand, higher likelihood of erosion and leaching.

I would not fertilize at all, I don't believe it is needed. Phosphorus is often banked in the soil, in high amounts. The best and most efficient way to make P available is through symbiotic relationships with plant and fungal networks. I would keep planting diverse mixes, keep the soil covered, reduce soil disturbance, and you will be all set.

Lastly, depending on when you took this test - (Jan-March) microbial activity is less, than during the growing season. This is a result of often showing lesser Phosphorus than is actually bio-available.

Hope this helps.

AT

This plot has not been tilled and I don’t plan on doing any tilling. I’m kind of leaning towards not fertilizing again this year. I have not fertilized to this point but the soil quality seems to improve with modest lime application.


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[FarmerD]

Too much magnesium also makes your soil crust a little easier and harder for broadcast seeds to penetrate and grow.
http://www.agtest.com/articles/highmg_soils.pdf

If it becomes a problem, adding gypsum and working it into the soil, might be a solution.

 

[Razorback]

Too much magnesium also makes your soil crust a little easier and harder for broadcast seeds to penetrate and grow.
http://www.agtest.com/articles/highmg_soils.pdf

If it becomes a problem, adding gypsum and working it into the soil, might be a solution.

Where do you get bulk gypsum? I can't seem to find any dealers locally.

 

[FarmerD]

"Before I did anything, I would get more knowledgeable people in your specific area, to help you make decisions on what to do, for your specific soil".

I did some research a few years ago and I could get some trucked in, from 50 miles away. I did not do that because the quantities I needed didn't justify a truck load. It's sold in bags, in places and would work fine for small food plots "if" needed. A lot of my soil is heavy red clay

https://www.eco-gem.com/gypsum-atlanta-ga/

For your area, maybe contact them and get some free advice.

http://www.gypsoil.com/reasons-to-use/mid-south/arkansas-study

https://fabe.osu.edu/sites/fabe/files/imce/files/Soybean/Gypsum Bulletin.pdf

 

[Razorback]

"Before I did anything, I would get more knowledgeable people in your specific area, to help you make decisions on what to do, for your specific soil".

I did some research a few years ago and I could get some trucked in, from 50 miles away. I did not do that because the quantities I needed didn't justify a truck load. It's sold in bags, in places and would work fine for small food plots "if" needed. A lot of my soil is heavy red clay

https://www.eco-gem.com/gypsum-atlanta-ga/

For your area, maybe contact them and get some free advice.

http://www.gypsoil.com/reasons-to-use/mid-south/arkansas-study

https://fabe.osu.edu/sites/fabe/files/imce/files/Soybean/Gypsum Bulletin.pdf

I did the same thing as far as researching the use of gypsum a couple years ago and seem to remember it wasn't worth the effort. I have some soil that gets rock hard when it dries but I've been using a pretty diverse cool season mix and this year I'm going to plant a mix that has sorghum Sudan, forage soybeans, sunflowers, buckwheat and cowpeas. I think I will use some gypsum on a small area and see what happens.

 

[FarmerD]

Yes, good plan ... just a thought for Weekender21 if "crust" became an issue.