Mixing turnips, radishes, and/or rape with Crimson Clover and Awnless wheat?

[MOVol]

I am seeking advice. I had planned on planting a mix of crimson clover (15 lbs/ac) and awnless wheat (40 lbs/ac) in some of my plots this fall per recent recommendations from Dr. Craig Harper on the Wild Turkey Science Podcast. The idea is to provide food fall-spring and then allow the plants to mature and become a little weedy for more suitable turkey brooding habitat. The plots I’ll try this in are 2.5 acres, 1.5 acres, and 1 acre (3 one acre fields) ; so 5 total plots. Two will be spray-throw-mow (last years standing rye) and 3 will be new plots that were cleared last week. I sent off soil samples on the new plots, but I don’t have them back yet.

I have approximately 6 lbs of purple top turnip, 8 lbs of daikon radish, and 12.5 lbs of a forage rape variety leftover from plots in 2021-2022. The seed has been stored in buckets in the garage. I have done germination tests all all of them and I’m getting about 70% germination.

My question is, knowing the goal of food then brooding cover, do you all see any issue or concerns with including the turnip/radish/or rape as light broadcasting into the CC and wheat? If not, what type of seeding rate would you use for each? Would you plant them separately along the edges of the plots? Maybe consider making one a separate brassica plot?

 

[yoderjac]

One key here is your location. Crimson Clover acts as a reseeding annual in my area, zone 7a, and further south. It may not reseed in other areas. As for the brassica, I would mix it right in. You mix is similar to my typical fall plant. Keep the PTT and Rape rate at 2 lbs/ac or less combined and Keep the radish under 4 lbs/ac. You can adjust those rates based on your germination rate tests for the older seed. If you have a cultipacker, I'd use it after broadcasting.

 

[MOVol]

Thanks Yoderjac. That’s helpful. My farm is in southeast MO. I’ve had great success with getting crimson clover to reseed.

 

[yoderjac]

If spring turkey is you objective, here is my personal take on managing for turkey. In the spring, gobblers will roost in proximity to hens. Hens will select safe rooting sights that are reasonably close to good nesting cover. "Good" nesting cover is nesting cover that is proximate to good brooding ground. So, in the spring, think about poults first and everything else falls into place.

The biggest killer of poults is viruses which are largely weather driven. There is nothing we can do about that. Next is nest predators. While trapping can help to some extent, there are lots of predators we can't control. The best thing we can do is to provide large blocks of good nesting habitat.

Planting in the fall including crops that green up early in the spring attracts insects. Crops that have bare ground under the canopy allow small poults easy travel. Things like fescue that fall over and form a mat are particularly hard for them to navigate. Clover is a great option as well as winter rye which grows at quite cool temperatures in early spring. Having good escape cover proximate to the fields is important. If poults have to traverse open area to reach the field, they are at risk of avian predators. While I always have to warn that Bicolor Lespedeza is a non-native that can become invasive in the right conditions, I've been using it for 15 years with no issue in my area. It is a perennial that grows 6-8 feet tall and produces millions of tiny seeds. It greens up late but has plenty of bare ground under it. It makes great escape cover and I use it as field borders. It is fully greened up by the time poults are out of the nest. Crops like soybeans next to the clover field can also be great escape cover as they provide a canopy and have bare ground under the canopy. One more component is having shrubs nearby. When a poult is about 2 weeks old, it can fly short distances. Once they can roost in a shrub they have a much higher survival rate.

When you provide this kind of habitat, hens will find and use it. Gobblers will often select elevated positions where they can be heard for a long distance in the spring. They seem to select the same or very close roost sites day after day and year after year. When we hear turkey in that same location, we always assumed it was the same gobbler. Recent GPS collar studies suggest that different gobblers may be using those roost sites, even day to day. This means there is something about those sites in relation to the general habitat and hens that makes them ideal.

So, when managing for turkey in moderate climates like you and I are in, think poults first. Think not only about food, but the arrangement between food, cover, and nesting. There are some places where there may be other factors that become more important. For example, in areas where trees are not abundant, roosting sites may be limited and a bigger driver. In areas that are further north, harsh winters may limit winter food for turkey. Here, turkey can find sufficient food even in the harshest winters.

There is a bit overlap between managing for deer and turkey. Most of what we do for one benefits the other. They are generally easy to manage together.

 

[MOVol]

I appreciate it. We’ve spent a lot of thought and energy the last few years converting old pastures into early successional growth to better wildlife habitat. We are doing our best to keep those fields in a matrix of 1-4 year old growth with burns in both the dormant and growing seasons. It’d be a lot simpler if the weather would pay attention to what days I off work for habitat work! So we’re working hard to promote better nesting and poult rearing habitat. My son and I have started some FSI as well to decrease canopy cover in areas to provide additional future nesting and brooding cover; we’ll manage those with periodic fire too.

We’ve found that what few broods we’ve seen in person and on camera tend to prefer areas that are 2 years or less post burn. Most nesting seems to be in areas that are 2-4 years post burn. Some recent research presented at the Wild Turkey Working Group this year seemed to validate our anecdotal observations. Several of those projects have showed increased preference for brooding cover with structure that is primarily 3 ft and less; not all structure at 3 ft but a predominance. That is where Dr. Harper’s recommendation got our attention. He suggested a lighter seeding rate of awnless wheat in the crimson clover because it will wind up closer to 3 ft during brooding season. I’ve always had 60-80 lbs of cereal rye in my fall blends. It’s done well for us, but admitted I can’t say with certainty whether turkeys have used those plots for brooding or not.

We thought it’d be worth experimenting with Dr. Harpers suggestion of heavy CC seeding and lighter awnless wheat this year to see what happens. The plots we’ll try it in will all be adjacent to areas, or in 1 case bridging two areas, that are currently good nesting habitat. We’re trying to create more nesting and brooding cover every year. Ultimately, I just want to see if my food plots can not only feed deer but also be maximized as brooding cover.

 

[MOVol]

Also, your recommendation of crops as brooding cover is a great one. We have two plots that are both 5-6 acres that we alternate planting each year with either Milo or soybeans. Both plots have a decent stand of ladino and medium red clover in them. We drill the Milo or soybeans into the clover. That’s been a fun experiment we’ve had good success with the past 5 years.

The off year we allow the plot to get “weedy”, typically with ragweed, other annuals, and a little broomsedge. It provides great cover for poults and attracts a lot of insects. Every now and then we’ll get to see some quail utilizing them. I’d love to see quail respond favorably to our habitat work. We used to have an abundance of quail in SE Missouri; I miss that.

 

[yoderjac]

Sounds like you've got things well in hand!

 

[cutman]

Is your clover inoculated? If so, your 15 lbs is probably closer to 7.5 lbs of actual seed. Factor that into your seeding rate.

40 lbs per acre of wheat is very low. In my experience, you could double that and still have plenty of room for the clover and brassicas.

 

[MOVol]

Sounds like you've got things well in hand!

At least it sounds like it! There’s always 100x more projects than there is time and money. With my father getting older, and moving 4 hours away from the farm I’m learning just keeping up with what we’ve already started takes most of our “habitat” time.

The deer have responded well to our efforts. So far, the same can’t be said for turkeys. I’m hoping some of my neighbors want to get on the turkey habitat train soon. Our 400 acres can’t carry the local population.

 

[MOVol]

Is your clover inoculated? If so, your 15 lbs is probably closer to 7.5 lbs of actual seed. Factor that into your seeding rate.

40 lbs per acre of wheat is very low. In my experience, you could double that and still have plenty of room for the clover and brassicas.

The crimson clover wasn’t inoculated. I just bought the seed today, and I had to purchase the innoculant separate. The germination rate on the printed tag was only 90%, so I had to purchase the addition balance to try to get to the true 15 lbs/acre.

I agree the 40 lbs seems really low for the wheat. In his discussion, Dr. Harper kept stressing to go low on the wheat if you want to try to maximize attractiveness for brooding. He went so far as to say consider cutting back to 30lbs. It’s tough for me to imagine going from 80 lbs of cereal rye down to 40 lbs of wheat. I guess it’s worth the experiment. I certainly won’t have the biomass and mulch layer I’ve grown accustomed to.

 

[yoderjac]

The crimson clover wasn’t inoculated. I just bought the seed today, and I had to purchase the innoculant separate. The germination rate on the printed tag was only 90%, so I had to purchase the addition balance to try to get to the true 15 lbs/acre.

I agree the 40 lbs seems really low for the wheat. In his discussion, Dr. Harper kept stressing to go low on the wheat if you want to try to maximize attractiveness for brooding. He went so far as to say consider cutting back to 30lbs. It’s tough for me to imagine going from 80 lbs of cereal rye down to 40 lbs of wheat. I guess it’s worth the experiment. I certainly won’t have the biomass and mulch layer I’ve grown accustomed to.

I agree. If I were planting with deer as my primary species objective, I'd agree with cuttman and suggest a cereal seeding rate of 100 lbs per acre as a target and plant the crimson at 10 lbs/ac. With your objective of spring turkey, I would stay at 40 lbs/ac of cereal and 15 of Crimson. Depending on how hard the deer hit the WW, you may even want to mow in the spring as soon as the wheat starts to become rank. My guess is that at 40 lbs/ac if you have decent deer numbers that won't even be necessary. The upside of mowing in the spring is that gobblers like visibility when they strut to attract hens.

 

[MOVol]

I agree. If I were planting with deer as my primary species objective, I'd agree with cuttman and suggest a cereal seeding rate of 100 lbs per acre as a target and plant the crimson at 10 lbs/ac. With your objective of spring turkey, I would stay at 40 lbs/ac of cereal and 15 of Crimson. Depending on how hard the deer hit the WW, you may even want to mow in the spring as soon as the wheat starts to become rank. My guess is that at 40 lbs/ac if you have decent deer numbers that won't even be necessary. The upside of mowing in the spring is that gobblers like visibility when they strut to attract hens.

It’s funny, previously I wouldn’t have considered myself as a “turkey first” land manager. My primary goals were always deer centric with the hopes of getting my dad and kid’s opportunities to see and harvest mature bucks. I’m not that selfless though, I wanted my chance too.

Up until the past few years Missouri as a whole, my farm included, had been a state with a thriving turkey population. At least that was what we all thought. I had been taking turkeys for granted. Looking at the state trends, production has been declining for awhile while harvests were remaining relatively high and stable. With the recent sharp population decline in our area, my mindset has changed a little. I want my dad to hear and see turkeys for as long as he can hunt, and I want my kids to fall in love with turkey hunting like I did as a child.

 

[yoderjac]

While deer is still our primary management species, turkey is a close second. Since management overlaps so much, it is easy to manage for both. For example, our typical plant for fall is WR/CC/PTT/GHR. I shoot for about 80lbs of WR and 10 of CC. I will mow some of the fields in the spring for turkey and let the rest head out. I will replant some of them in late spring with Sunn Hemp/Buckwheat for summer. Both deer and turkey love these in the summer. All of these crops benefit the soil and I find this rotation pretty sustainable.

 

[bossgobbler]

MOVol,

This is interesting. I have been on the same train now for about 5-6 years. I now focus all my attention on improving turkey habitat. Specifically, hen and poult success. I’ve really tried to make our property the best it can be for poult survival. It’s hard to do. There are so many predators out there that can wipe out turkeys pretty quickly. One summer I watched 42 poults turn into 7 poults by mid August.

Each year I learn a little more and try my best to improve something and make it a little better for the next hatch. I’ve learned a few things along the way.

First, our hens with broods love our fields with a clover base and buck forage oats, a little wheat, and a little rye. They really prefer the oats in mid summer. The clover provides good ground cover that young poults can hide under while chasing bugs. The hens can walk through the oats about head height and eat the seed heads. They can still see out of the oats and spot trouble, yet they can lay down and disappear in an instant.

All of my food plotting efforts are now focused on turkey habitat and it’s paying off. The deer also benefit greatly from it.

Keep up the work! I’d like to stay in touch with this thread and see where it goes. Thanks for sharing!

 

[MOVol]

I thought it was worth updating the thread I started last year with the results of trying out Dr. Harper’s recommended blend of 15 lbs crimson clover and 40 lbs of awnless wheat per acre as a fall planted food plot for deer with the intention of providing good turkey brooding habitat in the spring.

Long story short, the plots were an unmitigated failure when judged on the basis of deer food plots. This failure wasn’t the fault of the seed blend or seeding rates. When we planted the forecast was calling for good rain 5 of the following 7 days. That rain never came. In fact, it didn’t rain for 1.5 months after planting. The plots looked essentially barren until late March/early April.

That being said, spring green up brought a wide variety of native forbs and some broomsedge. Those plots became the best turkey brooding cover on my farm. I was blessed to watch at least 4 different hens each with 4-7 poults using them this summer.

They also became some of the best summer plots I’ve had. The amount of deer use and browse we’ve witnessed has been incredible and another added blessing. It isn’t as picturesque as Native’s prairie images, but it’s a beautiful consolation for the failed fall plantings. I should add that the deer use wasn’t surprising as I’ve been watching deer hammer my pollinator plantings for years, but the variety and quality of what the seed bank provided was a pleasant surprise.

I’ll be trying my hand at planting the plots via throw and mow again in the next 2 weeks, pending the weather forecast.

 

[yoderjac]

Rain can cover a multitude of sins and without it, nothing we can do can compensate.

The best we can do is no-till as that method helps retain as much soil moisture as possible.

 

[MOVol]

Rain can cover a multitude of sins and without it, nothing we can do can compensate.

The best we can do is no-till as that method helps retain as much soil moisture as possible.

Amen. Like many others I feel like my farm gets relatively consistent rain until I try to plant something. As soon as seed hits the soil the spigot shuts off.

If anyone on this forum is trained in performing a rain dance I’ll gladly pay their travel expenses and send GPS coordinates to my property!