Building Organic Matter

If you don’t have enough buckwheat then I would till about an inch or two this time.
Your grain and clover need to be in soil for your area mid-late Aug
I would use your grain as you said but I would do RC. It is a quicker growing clover w deeper roots than WC. Overseed next spring w red and white and you can do a buckwheat rotation if you like and then replant grain and clover end next summer. Good luck.
Here is a pic of my couple of my plots today and the thatch that’s needed for a good TnM. These will be brassica
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when i started a couple of years ago i couldn't find a good post that covered my particular situation:

The following is what I have distilled, in good measured from your replies yoderjac. Thanks for the suggestions!

New Food Plot created with a Forestry Mulcher

The goal is to get wildlife food plot going starting with a food plot cleared with a forestry mulcher. The forestry mulcher
will incorporate a lot of biomass which will consume nitrogen as it decomposes. Therefore at all times a legume will be
part of the cover to supply nitrogen to grain cover. The forestry mulcher may bring dormant weed seeds in the seed bank
into growing so initially be prepared to chemically control.

Be prepared for the soil conditioning affects of the winter rye (WR) and buckwheat (BW) coupled with perennial white clover to take
3 years before the soil is conditioned so that alternative forage crops (brassicas, peas, etc.) may be grown. Before
the soil has been improved trying to grow other crops is likely a waste of time and money and missed opportunities.

Very important: Soil test ASAP. Begin adjusting pH. Apply other conditioners (fertilizers as indicated)

If cleared by August 1st:

August 1st-15th
100#/A WR, 25#/A; 10#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT and 2#/A Daikon

Reason:
The winter rye becomes the early attractant as well as the Daikon tops. As the season goes on, the Daikon tubers get hit. After a frost or two
(coincidentally, not causally) deer begin to use PTT tops. After the season, in late Jan and Feb they
hit the PTT bulbs hard. The winter rye gets hit in early spring again before it becomes rank. By then
White Clover is in full swing and deer use it until I'm ready to cycle back to buckwheat and sunn hemp.

After 4 weeks 100#/A 19-19-19
This will feed the WR and initial clover boost

Following Spring:

Spray with glyphosate early May after beginning greenup. 2 qts glyphosate + 1 qt 2-4D + 2# AMS
Kill all grasses weeds that have been released from the seed bank.

Late May/Early June - 20 lbs/ac Buckwheat with 20 lbs/ac Sunn hemp.

Reason:
This provides summer food and the sunn hemp fixes a lot of N into the soil.

Back to August 1st:
Spray with Clethodim to control grasses (if necessary)
Mow to control annual grasses/perennial weeds.
Overseed w/ 50#/A WR, 25# Forage Oats; 5#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT, 2#/A Daikon. Adjust based on clover health
Brassicas (PTT) should be planted every other year.

Shouldn't be necessary to fertilize. Adding nitrogen will boost competitive cold season weeds.

Following Spring:
10# BW + 10# SH /A. Adjust based on clover health
 
when i started a couple of years ago i couldn't find a good post that covered my particular situation:

The following is what I have distilled, in good measured from your replies yoderjac. Thanks for the suggestions!

New Food Plot created with a Forestry Mulcher

The goal is to get wildlife food plot going starting with a food plot cleared with a forestry mulcher. The forestry mulcher
will incorporate a lot of biomass which will consume nitrogen as it decomposes. Therefore at all times a legume will be
part of the cover to supply nitrogen to grain cover. The forestry mulcher may bring dormant weed seeds in the seed bank
into growing so initially be prepared to chemically control.

Be prepared for the soil conditioning affects of the winter rye (WR) and buckwheat (BW) coupled with perennial white clover to take
3 years before the soil is conditioned so that alternative forage crops (brassicas, peas, etc.) may be grown. Before
the soil has been improved trying to grow other crops is likely a waste of time and money and missed opportunities.

Very important: Soil test ASAP. Begin adjusting pH. Apply other conditioners (fertilizers as indicated)

If cleared by August 1st:

August 1st-15th
100#/A WR, 25#/A; 10#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT and 2#/A Daikon

Reason:
The winter rye becomes the early attractant as well as the Daikon tops. As the season goes on, the Daikon tubers get hit. After a frost or two
(coincidentally, not causally) deer begin to use PTT tops. After the season, in late Jan and Feb they
hit the PTT bulbs hard. The winter rye gets hit in early spring again before it becomes rank. By then
White Clover is in full swing and deer use it until I'm ready to cycle back to buckwheat and sunn hemp.

After 4 weeks 100#/A 19-19-19
This will feed the WR and initial clover boost

Following Spring:

Spray with glyphosate early May after beginning greenup. 2 qts glyphosate + 1 qt 2-4D + 2# AMS
Kill all grasses weeds that have been released from the seed bank.

Late May/Early June - 20 lbs/ac Buckwheat with 20 lbs/ac Sunn hemp.

Reason:
This provides summer food and the sunn hemp fixes a lot of N into the soil.

Back to August 1st:
Spray with Clethodim to control grasses (if necessary)
Mow to control annual grasses/perennial weeds.
Overseed w/ 50#/A WR, 25# Forage Oats; 5#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT, 2#/A Daikon. Adjust based on clover health
Brassicas (PTT) should be planted every other year.

Shouldn't be necessary to fertilize. Adding nitrogen will boost competitive cold season weeds.

Following Spring:
10# BW + 10# SH /A. Adjust based on clover health
You got it in large part. Just a couple things. I typically use an annual clover rather than perennial when doing this rotation. Perennial clovers take longer to establish so fix less N in a short period. Since I'm replanting with this cycle, I don't get the benefit of persistence and annual clover is less expensive. In my area Crimson works well but the choice will depend on region. An alternative might be medium red clover. It is a perennial but it is short-lived and establishes faster.

As for the burn-down herbicide, it largely depends on your specific weed issues. Keep in mind that plants that farmers call "weeds" are great deer food. One of my weaknesses is my ability to ID weeds. I'm getting better, but it takes time. I like a healthy mix of weeds in my food plots, especially perennial clover plots, but even in these annual plots. Most broadleaf plants are not a problem, so unless you have a specific weed issue, I'd skip the 24d. The only other thing I'd say about burn-down herbicide is that you don't want to keep using the same herbicide over and over. That is what encourages resistance. I now switch between glyphosate and a generic version of Liberty. I also only spray if I need to. If I got a nice thick crop of buckwheat and sunn hemp in the summer and have few cool season grasses emerging, I may skip spraying in the fall.


Best of luck!
 
Question for some of you experienced folks. I have two plots that were just cleared as part of a logging operation. Both are about 1 acre of useable planting area that I plan to keep expanding. Soil is sandy. One is dry, the other is pretty moist although I think it’ll keep drying up over time now that sun can hit the ground. Soil test showed pH in the upper 4’s and very little organic matter. My plan is to always keep something growing with the ultimate goal of building up the soil. I planted buckwheat a week ago and you can see it’s growing pretty well. I’ve seen a lot of guys talk about broadcasting WR and/or WW into the standing BW for a fall plot then use the cultipacker after seeding. I have the ability to disc/seed/cultipack with my Firminator. It seems like discing the BW in as part of my fall planting would help it decay quicker and build OM faster than leaving it on the surface. Does that sound right or am I doing more harm than good going that route?View attachment 25712View attachment 25713 I got 1 ton of lime per acre before the BW and will repeat that for the fall planting. Thanks!
Hey Matlax, sorry that I am late to the party. What did you do last year? I am in the Northern lower peninsula in Michigan. There has been some good info in the this thread. I might have some additional stuff for you to consider.
 
You guys are saying not to even scratch the soil, but doesn't a no-till drill scratch the soil. I have quit bottom plowing and/or rototilling, but will use my offset disk after herbicide burn down and before seeding. Our soil is so hard that it will only cut in about an inch or two but will dig out some of the brush stumps. Then I will broadcast the seed and run the cultipacker over it. Then PRAY FOR RAIN. We are recovering old hay fields that have grown up to brush. Thought I would just use winter rye, oats, field peas, buckwheat (if the price is down) along with radish and purple top turnips. No clover, but should I use an annual red clover to raise the N? I think I'll have to repeat this for 2-3 years to kill the brush then I'll introduce perianal clover.
 
You guys are saying not to even scratch the soil, but doesn't a no-till drill scratch the soil. I have quit bottom plowing and/or rototilling, but will use my offset disk after herbicide burn down and before seeding. Our soil is so hard that it will only cut in about an inch or two but will dig out some of the brush stumps. Then I will broadcast the seed and run the cultipacker over it. Then PRAY FOR RAIN. We are recovering old hay fields that have grown up to brush. Thought I would just use winter rye, oats, field peas, buckwheat (if the price is down) along with radish and purple top turnips. No clover, but should I use an annual red clover to raise the N? I think I'll have to repeat this for 2-3 years to kill the brush then I'll introduce perianal clover.
A no-till drill will open a row and close it right back up, with almost no disturbance to the soil. Leaving residue on the soil is idea, but if you can't get the seed into the soil without any disturbance, you might need to lightly scratch it. Some folks will run their discs straight, just to cut grooves for the seeds to settle in. If your ground is that hard, you might be planting at the wrong time. Try to find a time when conditions are right to plant. Soil moisture is important, even in notill scenarios.

Adding a seed that's going to fix N is deal. You generally want a mix of the 4 seed types: grasses, legumes, broadleaf and brassica.
 
You guys are saying not to even scratch the soil, but doesn't a no-till drill scratch the soil. I have quit bottom plowing and/or rototilling, but will use my offset disk after herbicide burn down and before seeding. Our soil is so hard that it will only cut in about an inch or two but will dig out some of the brush stumps. Then I will broadcast the seed and run the cultipacker over it. Then PRAY FOR RAIN. We are recovering old hay fields that have grown up to brush. Thought I would just use winter rye, oats, field peas, buckwheat (if the price is down) along with radish and purple top turnips. No clover, but should I use an annual red clover to raise the N? I think I'll have to repeat this for 2-3 years to kill the brush then I'll introduce perianal clover.
Introducing oxygen into the soil speeds the microbial action burning OM faster. The deeper and more frequently you till the faster OM is consumed. Fertile deep loam with high OM can handle traditional tillage and still produce, even for many years. As soil quality and OM declines, natural nutrient cycling diminishes. Tillage also causes soil moisture loss. This can be a real issue in some climates and less important in others.

Some seed will germinate just fine with surface broadcast and cultipacked, and even without cultipacking if you have a good hard rain right after planting. Other larger seeds like soybeans and corn don't surface broadcast well.

So, one key is choosing crops that will do well based on your equipment and techniques and climate.

A no till drill has openers, coulters, and some kind of closer for each row. For some of the large seed, you need to get it planted to some depth. So, the drill only disturbs a small percentage of the soil in the field and it gets those seed planted at a depth where they will germinate.

We typically think of no-till drills as essentially doing no tillage because the disturbance is so minimal. When you surface broadcast and cultipack seeds that will germinate with that technique, you actually have zero disturbance. I usually do it this way, not because of less disturbance than a no-till drill, but because it is faster for me with my drill.

I would consider light disking or using a raised tiller so the tines only hit the top inch of soil as min-till. With light disking, I'm setting the disk at an non-aggressive angle and making one pass with no added weight. When I stand away from the field, I want it to look more mowed than tilled. I don't want to see brown. I just want to see vegetation.

Large seed like beans and corn don't germinate well if not planted deep and covered, so why would someone want to min-till vs surface broadcast and cultipack? There are several reasons for this. When converting from traditional tillage, low OM clay soils can crust. This crusting can significantly reduce germination and breaking it a bit can produce better results than surface broadcasting. You do lose some moisture this way, but not nearly as much as traditional disking where the field is brown when you are done.

We can compensate for lower germination rates to some extent by higher seeding rates, but that only goes so far.

Building OM is a slow process. It is kind of like composting. You want to select crops that balance between Carbon and Nitrogen (browns and greens of composting). You will build some OM top down as the crops die and desiccate, but much will be built by the root systems. Crops in the grass family (like corn, sorghum, or small grains) provide C and legumes in your mix provide N. Microbes do the rest.

Soil disturbance is not always bad. It can be good. It is deep and/or repeated tillage year after year that becomes problematic. For example soil disturbance often gets sunlight to the soil and encourages native forbs. This can be done with fire or a disk, but it is typically done 3 or 4 years apart.


Now for your situation. The first chore with an old hay field is usually getting rid of the fescue and other non-native grasses. This is generally best done by spraying in the fall.

As for your mix, the peas are legumes, but adding an annual clover is not a bad idea. Keep in mind that we are playing the long game. Most of the N that legumes fix from the air is released with they die. So, the peas and clover you plant this year will lave less impact on the current crop than the next one.

If you have hardwoods encroaching into the field, you might want to consider renting a small mini-excavator for a day and pulling them as step one. The cool season pasture grasses will best be killed by spraying later in the fall cool season. I would be tempted to skip the fall plant and work on grass termination. You could spray again in early spring to catch any cool season grasses that survive. Later in the spring you could disk and plant a smother crop of buckwheat and sunn hemp. That would put you in a good position to plant you rmix next fall with either light or not disking.

Best of luck!
 
If you've already removed the brush above ground that will wreck equipment, I'd flip to a perennial blend now. If you're trying to break a compaction problem, you should try to avoid a fallow period. A fall cocktail of rye, white clover, chicory, plantain, and flax should do you pretty well. I'd also be top dressing with common ragweed. Ragweed seems to love compacted soils.

Far as any brush resprouts are concerned, I'd think if you mow it once a year and drill more rye, you'd be golden. May want to throw in some japanese millet too in case the rye doesn't take well to the compaction.
 
Hey Matlax, sorry that I am late to the party. What did you do last year? I am in the Northern lower peninsula in Michigan. There has been some good info in the this thread. I might have some additional stuff for you to consider.
Agreed…lots of greatly appreciated info! The BW planted early July and did great. I ran into a tractor issue and couldn’t use my cultipacker to crimp or knock it down when I broadcast the WR in late August. It was an absolute flop (pretty disappointing although I didn’t get to put lime down for the WR). I came in late September with some oats and they grew well in the areas with soil, not so great where it was sand. I also threw some PTT and clover (forget which kind). Surprisingly, the PTT took in a few spots and I got some tiny turnips, which was pretty cool to see. Overall, mission accomplished of giving the deer a good food source into the winter. Very excited to get back out there and hit it again this year. Definitely planning a spring and fall liming. Planning on BW for summer and WR with oats in fall. May try some fertilizer in the fall to see if the WR takes off.
 
I've gone a step further. "acceptable" levels of nutrients are generally based on farming. Rather than trying to adapt the soil to plants, I try to select plants that both work for deer and adapt to the soil. When you plant a monoculture, all of the plants are competing for the exact same nutrients. When you plant a complementary mix of plants and allow a healthy mix of weeds to emerge, the wide variety of plants are using different nutrients in different amounts. By avoiding tillage, over time we build OM which promotes nutrient cycling.

I have never added N and I no longer add P & K. I never plant a monoculture of an N seeking crop like brassica. I have heavy clay soil with low OM. Over time, I've built OM through no-till operations and planting high carbon and nitrogen fixing plants. This is harder with sandy soil, but just as possible. I find that getting the pH correct so plants can utilize the available nutrients even more important.

An example rotation/mix for me in zone 7A would be:

Late May/Early June - 20 lbs/ac Buckwehat with 20 lbs/ac Sunn hemp. This provides summer food and the sunn hemp fixes a lot of N into the soil.

Late Aug/ Early Sept - 100 lbs/ac WR, 10 lbs/ac Crimson Clover, 2 lbs/ac PTT and 2 lbs/ac GHR. The winter rye becomes the early attractant as well as the GHR tops. As the season goes on, the GHR tubers get hit. After a frost or two (coincidentally, not causally) deer begin to use PTT tops. After the season, in late Jan and Feb they hit the PTT bulbs hard. The winter rye gets hit in early spring again before it becomes rank. By then Crimson Clover is in full swing and deer use it until I'm ready to cycle back to buckwheat and sunn hemp.

With this approach, I need no added N for brassica because the number of plants per square foot is low and the banked N is enough for good growth.

The only time I would plant primarily N seeking plants together is when a perennial clover field needs to be rotated. In this case, I'm trying to consume excess N before rotating back to perennial clover.

In our program, it was costing thousands of dollars in fertilizer each year using traditional techniques. My plots now never look as good to a human, but seem to look better to deer. The money we are saving in fertilizer is now available for other habitat projects.

One eye opener that got me started with this approach is when I took a soil test to several "experts" looking for a fertilizer recommendation. I told them all what I had previously planted and what I intended to plant. I got a different fertilizer recommendation from each of them.

There has been a lot of science poured into fertilizer recommendations but it has all focused on farmers. They generally plant monocultures and harvest nutrients from the field. As deer managers we do neither.

That is my perspective. Others may have different perspectives. I did traditional tillage and fertilized for many years. My take on things today is that if I need to fertilize, I'm trying to bend nature too far. Bending nature slightly in favor of target species is lower cost with higher rewards.
Curious if your SD
 
Yoder just curious if you were SD from all things habitat. I just started reading your posts and I'm very impressed. Thank you for your wisdom
 
Nope. Got the same username here that I had there before I was banned for my heresy and unpopular opinions. As I recall, SD had some very good posts over there. I had lots of threads and posts over there. I think they still exist, but you can't search for them by my username any longer.
 
Yoder. I will check on your posts over there. Amy insights into no till OM or roller crimping I am interested in. Especially soil health. I am guilty of discing and ruining my soil. This is my transformation
 

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Yoder. I will check on your posts over there. Amy insights into no till OM or roller crimping I am interested in. Especially soil health. I am guilty of discing and ruining my soil. This is my transformation
First, let me say that discing, in and of itself, is not necessarily bad. It depends on the context in which it is used. It is deep and/or frequent tillage that can be problematic. I really hurt my soils when I first started with a 2 bottom plow and a tiller. I had beautiful fluffy seed beds and pretty food plots with lots of fertilizer added at first. Lots of effort, lots of cost, and no more benefit to deer while burning up all the OM in my soils. I needed more and more fertilizer to produce.

I'm now turning many of my plot into weed management areas. That is the next step in my evolution. Here is a thread with a great video on that: Weed Management Thread This is a great example of how discing can be used beneficially on a rotating basis.

I can't talk myself into a crimper. It is a great tool for a specific job. If you catch WR at the dough stage, you can terminate it with a crimper. That means less herbicide use which can be a good thing. However, there is a limitation as to what crimpers will kill and when they will kill it. If money was no object, I'd own a crimper and use it when appropriate. Instead, I use a cultipacker and herbicide. I rotate between gly and generic liberty to avoid resistance.

One great thing about min-till/no-till is that you can do it with small equipment like yours.

Best of luck!
 
Victory, I like to do what Jack, and I, call minimum till. My soils are mostly soft, so I can usually get away with minimum angle in an tandem 6’ disc and only on the front gang. The rear gang stays straight or nearly so. That enables me to put grooves in the soil just deep enough to bury seeds like rye, wheat, buckwheat, peas, etc. I will then drag it with a homemade tire drag. If I’m planting crimson clover with rye for example, I’ll put the clover out after dragging and drag again unless a rain is pretty sure the next day or two. I get good plots with this method and I’m not destroying my soil. This is a Green Cover Summer Release plot npic is from just a day or so ago. There are two deer in this picture, the doe is looking straight at the buck. That’s how tall it is. I have a low deer density here at home. IMG_4751.jpeg
 
Drycreek,

I got an email notification that you posted to this thread describing your min-till process with a picture of a food plot, but it is not here. Perhaps you deleted it for some reason.

At any rate, your food plot pic looks amazingly like one of mine:

b76c627e-6395-4e8a-8ced-8c455da02659.jpg
 
Well Jack, I did, don’t know where it went, but here’s the pic again. This is a Green Cover Summer Release with some added IC peas. As you can see, the doe is looking directly at a buck, but you can only see the tips of his rack, it’s that tall.IMG_4751.jpeg
 
Well Jack, I did, don’t know where it went, but here’s the pic again. This is a Green Cover Summer Release with some added IC peas. As you can see, the doe is looking directly at a buck, but you can only see the tips of his rack, it’s that tall.View attachment 28279
Yep, that was the pic. Looks amazingly similar to mine. Lots of structure. Tree tubes you see in the distance on mine are 6' tubes.
 
Dry creek did you use a specific summer release from green cover. FYI. You might want to look into albert lea seeds and find a dealer near you. Bet you will be saving over 50 percent on 50 pounds. I tried cc6 summer release will check on it tomorrow and upload pictures
 
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