Building Organic Matter

If you don’t have enough buckwheat then I would till about an inch or two this time.
Your grain and clover need to be in soil for your area mid-late Aug
I would use your grain as you said but I would do RC. It is a quicker growing clover w deeper roots than WC. Overseed next spring w red and white and you can do a buckwheat rotation if you like and then replant grain and clover end next summer. Good luck.
Here is a pic of my couple of my plots today and the thatch that’s needed for a good TnM. These will be brassica
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when i started a couple of years ago i couldn't find a good post that covered my particular situation:

The following is what I have distilled, in good measured from your replies yoderjac. Thanks for the suggestions!

New Food Plot created with a Forestry Mulcher

The goal is to get wildlife food plot going starting with a food plot cleared with a forestry mulcher. The forestry mulcher
will incorporate a lot of biomass which will consume nitrogen as it decomposes. Therefore at all times a legume will be
part of the cover to supply nitrogen to grain cover. The forestry mulcher may bring dormant weed seeds in the seed bank
into growing so initially be prepared to chemically control.

Be prepared for the soil conditioning affects of the winter rye (WR) and buckwheat (BW) coupled with perennial white clover to take
3 years before the soil is conditioned so that alternative forage crops (brassicas, peas, etc.) may be grown. Before
the soil has been improved trying to grow other crops is likely a waste of time and money and missed opportunities.

Very important: Soil test ASAP. Begin adjusting pH. Apply other conditioners (fertilizers as indicated)

If cleared by August 1st:

August 1st-15th
100#/A WR, 25#/A; 10#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT and 2#/A Daikon

Reason:
The winter rye becomes the early attractant as well as the Daikon tops. As the season goes on, the Daikon tubers get hit. After a frost or two
(coincidentally, not causally) deer begin to use PTT tops. After the season, in late Jan and Feb they
hit the PTT bulbs hard. The winter rye gets hit in early spring again before it becomes rank. By then
White Clover is in full swing and deer use it until I'm ready to cycle back to buckwheat and sunn hemp.

After 4 weeks 100#/A 19-19-19
This will feed the WR and initial clover boost

Following Spring:

Spray with glyphosate early May after beginning greenup. 2 qts glyphosate + 1 qt 2-4D + 2# AMS
Kill all grasses weeds that have been released from the seed bank.

Late May/Early June - 20 lbs/ac Buckwheat with 20 lbs/ac Sunn hemp.

Reason:
This provides summer food and the sunn hemp fixes a lot of N into the soil.

Back to August 1st:
Spray with Clethodim to control grasses (if necessary)
Mow to control annual grasses/perennial weeds.
Overseed w/ 50#/A WR, 25# Forage Oats; 5#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT, 2#/A Daikon. Adjust based on clover health
Brassicas (PTT) should be planted every other year.

Shouldn't be necessary to fertilize. Adding nitrogen will boost competitive cold season weeds.

Following Spring:
10# BW + 10# SH /A. Adjust based on clover health
 
when i started a couple of years ago i couldn't find a good post that covered my particular situation:

The following is what I have distilled, in good measured from your replies yoderjac. Thanks for the suggestions!

New Food Plot created with a Forestry Mulcher

The goal is to get wildlife food plot going starting with a food plot cleared with a forestry mulcher. The forestry mulcher
will incorporate a lot of biomass which will consume nitrogen as it decomposes. Therefore at all times a legume will be
part of the cover to supply nitrogen to grain cover. The forestry mulcher may bring dormant weed seeds in the seed bank
into growing so initially be prepared to chemically control.

Be prepared for the soil conditioning affects of the winter rye (WR) and buckwheat (BW) coupled with perennial white clover to take
3 years before the soil is conditioned so that alternative forage crops (brassicas, peas, etc.) may be grown. Before
the soil has been improved trying to grow other crops is likely a waste of time and money and missed opportunities.

Very important: Soil test ASAP. Begin adjusting pH. Apply other conditioners (fertilizers as indicated)

If cleared by August 1st:

August 1st-15th
100#/A WR, 25#/A; 10#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT and 2#/A Daikon

Reason:
The winter rye becomes the early attractant as well as the Daikon tops. As the season goes on, the Daikon tubers get hit. After a frost or two
(coincidentally, not causally) deer begin to use PTT tops. After the season, in late Jan and Feb they
hit the PTT bulbs hard. The winter rye gets hit in early spring again before it becomes rank. By then
White Clover is in full swing and deer use it until I'm ready to cycle back to buckwheat and sunn hemp.

After 4 weeks 100#/A 19-19-19
This will feed the WR and initial clover boost

Following Spring:

Spray with glyphosate early May after beginning greenup. 2 qts glyphosate + 1 qt 2-4D + 2# AMS
Kill all grasses weeds that have been released from the seed bank.

Late May/Early June - 20 lbs/ac Buckwheat with 20 lbs/ac Sunn hemp.

Reason:
This provides summer food and the sunn hemp fixes a lot of N into the soil.

Back to August 1st:
Spray with Clethodim to control grasses (if necessary)
Mow to control annual grasses/perennial weeds.
Overseed w/ 50#/A WR, 25# Forage Oats; 5#/A White Clover, 2#/A PTT, 2#/A Daikon. Adjust based on clover health
Brassicas (PTT) should be planted every other year.

Shouldn't be necessary to fertilize. Adding nitrogen will boost competitive cold season weeds.

Following Spring:
10# BW + 10# SH /A. Adjust based on clover health
You got it in large part. Just a couple things. I typically use an annual clover rather than perennial when doing this rotation. Perennial clovers take longer to establish so fix less N in a short period. Since I'm replanting with this cycle, I don't get the benefit of persistence and annual clover is less expensive. In my area Crimson works well but the choice will depend on region. An alternative might be medium red clover. It is a perennial but it is short-lived and establishes faster.

As for the burn-down herbicide, it largely depends on your specific weed issues. Keep in mind that plants that farmers call "weeds" are great deer food. One of my weaknesses is my ability to ID weeds. I'm getting better, but it takes time. I like a healthy mix of weeds in my food plots, especially perennial clover plots, but even in these annual plots. Most broadleaf plants are not a problem, so unless you have a specific weed issue, I'd skip the 24d. The only other thing I'd say about burn-down herbicide is that you don't want to keep using the same herbicide over and over. That is what encourages resistance. I now switch between glyphosate and a generic version of Liberty. I also only spray if I need to. If I got a nice thick crop of buckwheat and sunn hemp in the summer and have few cool season grasses emerging, I may skip spraying in the fall.


Best of luck!
 
Question for some of you experienced folks. I have two plots that were just cleared as part of a logging operation. Both are about 1 acre of useable planting area that I plan to keep expanding. Soil is sandy. One is dry, the other is pretty moist although I think it’ll keep drying up over time now that sun can hit the ground. Soil test showed pH in the upper 4’s and very little organic matter. My plan is to always keep something growing with the ultimate goal of building up the soil. I planted buckwheat a week ago and you can see it’s growing pretty well. I’ve seen a lot of guys talk about broadcasting WR and/or WW into the standing BW for a fall plot then use the cultipacker after seeding. I have the ability to disc/seed/cultipack with my Firminator. It seems like discing the BW in as part of my fall planting would help it decay quicker and build OM faster than leaving it on the surface. Does that sound right or am I doing more harm than good going that route?View attachment 25712View attachment 25713 I got 1 ton of lime per acre before the BW and will repeat that for the fall planting. Thanks!
Hey Matlax, sorry that I am late to the party. What did you do last year? I am in the Northern lower peninsula in Michigan. There has been some good info in the this thread. I might have some additional stuff for you to consider.
 
You guys are saying not to even scratch the soil, but doesn't a no-till drill scratch the soil. I have quit bottom plowing and/or rototilling, but will use my offset disk after herbicide burn down and before seeding. Our soil is so hard that it will only cut in about an inch or two but will dig out some of the brush stumps. Then I will broadcast the seed and run the cultipacker over it. Then PRAY FOR RAIN. We are recovering old hay fields that have grown up to brush. Thought I would just use winter rye, oats, field peas, buckwheat (if the price is down) along with radish and purple top turnips. No clover, but should I use an annual red clover to raise the N? I think I'll have to repeat this for 2-3 years to kill the brush then I'll introduce perianal clover.
 
You guys are saying not to even scratch the soil, but doesn't a no-till drill scratch the soil. I have quit bottom plowing and/or rototilling, but will use my offset disk after herbicide burn down and before seeding. Our soil is so hard that it will only cut in about an inch or two but will dig out some of the brush stumps. Then I will broadcast the seed and run the cultipacker over it. Then PRAY FOR RAIN. We are recovering old hay fields that have grown up to brush. Thought I would just use winter rye, oats, field peas, buckwheat (if the price is down) along with radish and purple top turnips. No clover, but should I use an annual red clover to raise the N? I think I'll have to repeat this for 2-3 years to kill the brush then I'll introduce perianal clover.
A no-till drill will open a row and close it right back up, with almost no disturbance to the soil. Leaving residue on the soil is idea, but if you can't get the seed into the soil without any disturbance, you might need to lightly scratch it. Some folks will run their discs straight, just to cut grooves for the seeds to settle in. If your ground is that hard, you might be planting at the wrong time. Try to find a time when conditions are right to plant. Soil moisture is important, even in notill scenarios.

Adding a seed that's going to fix N is deal. You generally want a mix of the 4 seed types: grasses, legumes, broadleaf and brassica.
 
You guys are saying not to even scratch the soil, but doesn't a no-till drill scratch the soil. I have quit bottom plowing and/or rototilling, but will use my offset disk after herbicide burn down and before seeding. Our soil is so hard that it will only cut in about an inch or two but will dig out some of the brush stumps. Then I will broadcast the seed and run the cultipacker over it. Then PRAY FOR RAIN. We are recovering old hay fields that have grown up to brush. Thought I would just use winter rye, oats, field peas, buckwheat (if the price is down) along with radish and purple top turnips. No clover, but should I use an annual red clover to raise the N? I think I'll have to repeat this for 2-3 years to kill the brush then I'll introduce perianal clover.
Introducing oxygen into the soil speeds the microbial action burning OM faster. The deeper and more frequently you till the faster OM is consumed. Fertile deep loam with high OM can handle traditional tillage and still produce, even for many years. As soil quality and OM declines, natural nutrient cycling diminishes. Tillage also causes soil moisture loss. This can be a real issue in some climates and less important in others.

Some seed will germinate just fine with surface broadcast and cultipacked, and even without cultipacking if you have a good hard rain right after planting. Other larger seeds like soybeans and corn don't surface broadcast well.

So, one key is choosing crops that will do well based on your equipment and techniques and climate.

A no till drill has openers, coulters, and some kind of closer for each row. For some of the large seed, you need to get it planted to some depth. So, the drill only disturbs a small percentage of the soil in the field and it gets those seed planted at a depth where they will germinate.

We typically think of no-till drills as essentially doing no tillage because the disturbance is so minimal. When you surface broadcast and cultipack seeds that will germinate with that technique, you actually have zero disturbance. I usually do it this way, not because of less disturbance than a no-till drill, but because it is faster for me with my drill.

I would consider light disking or using a raised tiller so the tines only hit the top inch of soil as min-till. With light disking, I'm setting the disk at an non-aggressive angle and making one pass with no added weight. When I stand away from the field, I want it to look more mowed than tilled. I don't want to see brown. I just want to see vegetation.

Large seed like beans and corn don't germinate well if not planted deep and covered, so why would someone want to min-till vs surface broadcast and cultipack? There are several reasons for this. When converting from traditional tillage, low OM clay soils can crust. This crusting can significantly reduce germination and breaking it a bit can produce better results than surface broadcasting. You do lose some moisture this way, but not nearly as much as traditional disking where the field is brown when you are done.

We can compensate for lower germination rates to some extent by higher seeding rates, but that only goes so far.

Building OM is a slow process. It is kind of like composting. You want to select crops that balance between Carbon and Nitrogen (browns and greens of composting). You will build some OM top down as the crops die and desiccate, but much will be built by the root systems. Crops in the grass family (like corn, sorghum, or small grains) provide C and legumes in your mix provide N. Microbes do the rest.

Soil disturbance is not always bad. It can be good. It is deep and/or repeated tillage year after year that becomes problematic. For example soil disturbance often gets sunlight to the soil and encourages native forbs. This can be done with fire or a disk, but it is typically done 3 or 4 years apart.


Now for your situation. The first chore with an old hay field is usually getting rid of the fescue and other non-native grasses. This is generally best done by spraying in the fall.

As for your mix, the peas are legumes, but adding an annual clover is not a bad idea. Keep in mind that we are playing the long game. Most of the N that legumes fix from the air is released with they die. So, the peas and clover you plant this year will lave less impact on the current crop than the next one.

If you have hardwoods encroaching into the field, you might want to consider renting a small mini-excavator for a day and pulling them as step one. The cool season pasture grasses will best be killed by spraying later in the fall cool season. I would be tempted to skip the fall plant and work on grass termination. You could spray again in early spring to catch any cool season grasses that survive. Later in the spring you could disk and plant a smother crop of buckwheat and sunn hemp. That would put you in a good position to plant you rmix next fall with either light or not disking.

Best of luck!
 
If you've already removed the brush above ground that will wreck equipment, I'd flip to a perennial blend now. If you're trying to break a compaction problem, you should try to avoid a fallow period. A fall cocktail of rye, white clover, chicory, plantain, and flax should do you pretty well. I'd also be top dressing with common ragweed. Ragweed seems to love compacted soils.

Far as any brush resprouts are concerned, I'd think if you mow it once a year and drill more rye, you'd be golden. May want to throw in some japanese millet too in case the rye doesn't take well to the compaction.
 
Hey Matlax, sorry that I am late to the party. What did you do last year? I am in the Northern lower peninsula in Michigan. There has been some good info in the this thread. I might have some additional stuff for you to consider.
Agreed…lots of greatly appreciated info! The BW planted early July and did great. I ran into a tractor issue and couldn’t use my cultipacker to crimp or knock it down when I broadcast the WR in late August. It was an absolute flop (pretty disappointing although I didn’t get to put lime down for the WR). I came in late September with some oats and they grew well in the areas with soil, not so great where it was sand. I also threw some PTT and clover (forget which kind). Surprisingly, the PTT took in a few spots and I got some tiny turnips, which was pretty cool to see. Overall, mission accomplished of giving the deer a good food source into the winter. Very excited to get back out there and hit it again this year. Definitely planning a spring and fall liming. Planning on BW for summer and WR with oats in fall. May try some fertilizer in the fall to see if the WR takes off.
 
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