J-birds place

[j-bird]

First of all thanks for all the great comments - I just trying to share so others can see even a Hoosier can do it!

Every property and land manager faces challenges and they can be VERY different - the biggest thing is truly understanding those challenges. Food, water, cover, age, and a host of many others all play a huge role. In the early stages I focused on food.....surrounded by 100's of acres of corn and soybeans and my stupid butt was worried about planting more food! Well, some times you can't see what is right in front of you and sometimes fear of the unknown paralyzes you as well. Well because of the guidance and support from many of you folks I finally saw the light and took some major steps and it made a huge difference. It still isn't perfect and I still do dumb things, but all in all we have made good progress. I more than likely will never kill a B&C class buck off of my place and to be honest, at one time I about threw in the towel because of it. But again I had some folks talk me off that ledge and I had to come to terms with even more limitations. You can't kill big deer, if they don't live there! Yep, pretty revolutionary type stuff right there. But again, we get so focused on some detail and we can sometimes miss the point. To be honest, passing a yearling is easy now and so is passing 2 year olds, but I had to "cut my teeth" on those deer first. A 3 year old will get my attention and in my area more than likely a 4 year old isn't gonna see another day. I know he won't get any bigger if I shoot him, but it isn't like I see these every day either, or even once a year for that matter. Any way, we all have limitations, and sometimes we all need to remember this is a HOBBY - so just chill, once in a while. Killing that big buck isn't going to change your life - there are far more important things out there than that big buck.......sometimes they sit right beside you and won't shut up!


You ever get stressed out or frustrated about deer hunting or habitat work - take a kid hunting or for a walk in the woods. And when the deer show up you will see the sense of excitement and amazement that you too once had. We all hunt for different reasons.....but some of my most memorable hunts have nothing to do with killing the deer I have shown you. Most of them are all about having a rookie hunter with me and them getting there first deer or something unexpected happening in the process. Above is my youngest - I took her brother to get his first deer, I took another young man in our extended family to get his first deer, and I'm trying to get this one her first deer. She gave it a good go last year, but it just didn't come together. We'll get one this year......

 

[catscratch]

Keep up the good work. Finding the important things in life and working with them will make you a happy man, and more importantlythe people around you happy.

 

[dogghr]

Now that was an amazing summation. Thanks, and great pic.

 

[j-bird]

Just in case any of you guys are members of the other forum I have taken most of my posts here and loaded them in a "land tour" over there as well......so if your over there.....you didn't miss anything! I can appreciate that some folks don;t have time for 2 forums and that's ok.

I love taking my kids hunting, fishing, shooting or just being outside. I figure it's my job as a parent to open that door to them....if they want to take it further than that - that is their decision. I have some that have taken it further than others, and that's OK. Just because nature is my passion doesn't mean it has to be theirs. We raised squirrels in the house for a short period until they where ready for release for pete sake.....and if was a family effort.

 

[j-bird]

Thought I would make a post about something we hear about but we tend to put off because we don't see the value of it until it's too late.

Keeping records!

I started hunting in roughly 2000, I didn't start keeping any sort of records until roughly 2010. So I lost essentially 10 years of data, that I really wish I had. I will also preface this by saying - I'm an Engineer so numbers and data are not something I fear. In fact I welcome them because especial numbers in raw data can help you tell a story....one way or another.

Now I essentially track the harvests off of my property and county and state harvest information. I should keep records and better data on my plots and the like, but I don't.....at least not yet......see, I still don't learn sometimes !

I keep my harvest data in an excel workbook - I have different tabs for different things:

County and state harvest data:

Data here is year, antlerless harvest, antlered harvest and totals from the state back to 1987 - I copied this data straight from the state when it was available because I feared they may remove it at some point and it may come in handy. County data is the same, but I also commented on when we implemented out "one buck rule" and the "bonus" number - which was implemented by the state to further reduce antlerless deer.


I also then keep data specific to my place:

Hunter name, date, season, sex of the deer, live weight, weapon used, approx stand location, time, score and any other comments. This then allows me to see different trends that may not otherwise be noticed. This data is since 2010 and has already shown me a few things of interest. You can see I also like the charts to visualize and summarize the data. We seem to spread the harvest over the farm fairly well, far more deer killed with a firearm, far more anlterless deer (with nearly 20% being button bucks), we are far more successful in the evenings, we average a total harvest of roughly 5 deer a year off the place, with 60% of harvests coming in general firearms season. I also track deer that I classify as DNR (did not recover) - It happens to us all, but I wanted to track the number and hunters that tend to shoot/hit deer but not find them......funny how when I started tracking it......it seems the numbers went down!

I also then have a log of every deer I have killed.

Here I track the year, weapon, sex of the deer, tag number, number of points, score. Again the charts tell the story.


Now here is the interesting thing - you can do all sorts of things with data......but you have to have the data FIRST! Do you know exactly how many deer you have tagged? I do! Do you know how many deer your county killed last year? I do! Do you have data to support claims of deer numbers being down in your county or state and thus a lower harvest number? I do! I even have data that I can try to associate live weight to the age of the deer......its a work in progress. The point is that there is a lot of information that we simply forget over time and without a record of it - it's gone.

I don;t keep track of every hunt, or how much fertilizer I applied in a particular plot to support a certain crop or when I applied X amount of gly last year. I should - I really should. Simply because I can do the same thing with that data as I have done with my harvest data. It can be a pain, but the records can help with lots of things. Do you know how much gly you used last year? I have no clue. I have no idea how much triple 15 I applied in my SW plot last year, or even how much time or how many days I hunted in X stand last year. All real good information - especially to show you things that may not be that apparent.

 

[j-bird]

This may be more of a "Blog" type post than anything but I still wanted to add it here because though it isn't directly related it IS important. This is taken directly out of the 2015-2016 Indiana Hunting regulations guide. Now I am NOT a grouse hunter and I don't have grouse on my place and haven't since I have lived there, but this struck a cord with me.

This demonstrates the importance of habitat AND responsible management. Habitat loss is one thing. I realize 95% of Indiana is privately held and thus the state can not mandate large areas of forest to be harvested. However the state can look at the data and react accordingly BEFORE the species faces localized extinction! 1 positive site of 15 possible and over a 4 year period - and NOW they close hunting? Talk about way too little way too late! This poses some real concern regarding some of the things we are seeing in the declining herd and how that is being managed!

 

[Weasel]

Outstanding tour j-bird, I'm really enjoying it. I'm finishing up year three of my ownership of my forty acres in NE Ohio corn & soybean country. I struggle with what order to do things and still don't have a clear "plan" in my head as to what my final layout should look like. My property is small but it hunts a lot bigger because most of my neighbors don't hunt and they control large blocks of cover that see little to no human activity. I just need to figure out what works best for my piece and stay out of my own way.

I did more chainsaw work this spring than any other and to be honest, I was surprised at how fast things thickened up in just three months. Cameras are showing an increase in individual doe groups so I know I'm improving carrying capacity as well as desirable deer habitat. I routinely get P&Y+ bucks on camera and a few booners are killed/found every year in the area. Like you, I'm pretty much a one man band out there 95% of the time. And I'm in the same boat with limited time & finances. Doesn't help that the farm is 90 miles away either. Oh well, for what it's worth, your thread is interesting and inspiring. You are a few years and a few steps ahead of me but I'm doing the best that I can.

 

[j-bird]

Outstanding tour j-bird, I'm really enjoying it. I'm finishing up year three of my ownership of my forty acres in NE Ohio corn & soybean country. I struggle with what order to do things and still don't have a clear "plan" in my head as to what my final layout should look like. My property is small but it hunts a lot bigger because most of my neighbors don't hunt and they control large blocks of cover that see little to no human activity. I just need to figure out what works best for my piece and stay out of my own way.

I did more chainsaw work this spring than any other and to be honest, I was surprised at how fast things thickened up in just three months. Cameras are showing an increase in individual doe groups so I know I'm improving carrying capacity as well as desirable deer habitat. I routinely get P&Y+ bucks on camera and a few booners are killed/found every year in the area. Like you, I'm pretty much a one man band out there 95% of the time. And I'm in the same boat with limited time & finances. Doesn't help that the farm is 90 miles away either. Oh well, for what it's worth, your thread is interesting and inspiring. You are a few years and a few steps ahead of me but I'm doing the best that I can.

You need a plan or you will get in your own way - been there! It leads to frustration later and possibly wasted money and time. I'll check out your thread. With limited funds and time you will want to make it count.
(updated because my wonderful internet connection made me look like an idiot! - I do that all on my own I don;t need any help)

 

[Weasel]

Sounds good. I should have said I have a plan, I just don't know if it's the best plan for my property. That's what I struggle with. I'll see you over on my thread.

 

[j-bird]

OK - I planted my fall plots today. I normally wait until Labor Day weekend to plant my fall plots but I wanted to get a jump on them this year to see if I can produce larger bulbs and more forage. My local seed dealer didn't have his fall seed ready to go so I had to go the BOB route. I typically avoid it, but you do what you have to do.

I bought Antler King's Honey Hole, and Evolved Harvest's Winter PZ & 7 card stud (you can seed the seed breakdown of each in another post I made). I typically use a rototiller, but it wasn't available so I turned to my rusty and trusty 2 bottom plow and disc. It's time consuming but it gets the job done.


My North plot I worked the ground and broadcast the Winter PZ with some of the Honey hole as well. I really liked the dose of winter peas but I wanted to get some bulbs in there as well. I don't know how the deer will react to to the oats since I still have huge amounts of ag soybeans available.


My south corn plot had 2 the ends available so I took advantage of those as well. Same method but I applied the 7 card stud with some of the Honey hole as well. I did try a little experiment as well. I had a few rows of corn that didn't do well so I knocked them down and disced them and broadcast the seed just to see if there is any significant difference. The pic below shows what is the situation on both ends of my corn plot - so I have these sort of "book ending" my corn plot.


Here is my SW plot. You will see the center of this plot didn't quite do so well, so I decided to make the center of it a brassica plot, but I had to make a shooting lane as well. I went in with a machete and cut the corn and laid it on some weeds to smother them and then used the tractor and disc to make a quick shooting lane. I simply broadcast the remained of the Honey Hole here. Now I cut the corn here, but there is no grain yet so there is no baiting here.


I went in and started cutting and then seeded and ever seeded a wide row I found.

 

[Satguy]

Nice pics, they tell a good story. Place is looking good.

 

[j-bird]

I know some folks like old equipment.....this is pretty simple but she still turns dirt. I removed the "trash cutters". Got this for free as it was sitting under a tarp for years (at least a decade) and the guy wanted it gone......"I'll take it"!

 

[j-bird]

I wanted to talk about some of the "problem children" I deal with on my place.....Invasive plants!

We all have plants growing in places we don't want - by definition that is a "weed". Clover in your yard....weed! Clover in your plot....not a weed.

In my woods or at the edges of it where there is some sunlight - Japanese Bush Honeysuckle.

This stuff is TERRIBLE! It flowers in late spring early summer and those flowers look like honeysuckle, the red berries form in the fall and the birds will carry them everywhere. The woody stems are hollow and the shrub tends to green up before most others in the spring and remain green longer than most others in the fall as well. The roots produce a chemical that limits other plant growth as well. I actually "hunt" this plant on my place. My neighbors have it and it can spread quickly. The only real way I have found to kill it is to cut the stems and treat them (I use Tordon). I have never seen deer browse this plant and they will use it for cover, but there are far better options out there for cover for deer.

In my CRP areas the two biggest issue plants I have are Canada Thistle & Johnsongrass. Both are perennial plants that spread by both seed and root system, both can be difficult to kill until the energy stored in the root system is consumed. Yes you can manage these with mowing - but I find these in areas I want to grow tall and provide cover for wildlife.

Canada Thistle:
Perennial broadleaf plant - Best way I deal with thistle is to use a product called "crossbow" or "crossroad" this is essentially a brush killer. I use this because basic 2,4D doesn't seem to have the "punch" it takes to kill thistle.....it will knock it back, but it tends to not kill it. Like any "weed" it's best killed when it is young - it becomes actively growing in the spring and fairly early as it likes the cooler temps.



Johnsongrass:
Perennial - rhizomonus grass - Best way I deal with johnsongrass is with a grass selective herbicide (cleth). I like to add a crop oil and some AMS when I know I'm trying to kill grasses. Again killing it while it's small is far easier. This plant grows rapidly in the heat of the summer.....I swear you can watch it grow! The white "vein" or "rib" in the blade of the grass is a ID flag for this grass. Do NOT try to control this plant with tillage, because of the rhizomes in the root system, chopping the roots simply tends to make more plants! You would have to do repeated tillage to to get all those rhizomes killed and many simply don't have the time for that. This plant was introduced to this country as a cattle forage for the southeastern part of the country during the Johnson administration....and thus the name. They liked the fact that it grow so well in the heat and humid conditions.....well they quickly found out that it can quickly displace native plants once it escapes a controlled environment.


I will try to do little "blurbs" about various plants as I go along or when the mood hits me.

 

[dogdoc]

Hate JG. It can be smothered out but it has to be smothered early in the growing season. You are correct - it is a fast growing grass. Repeated gly spraying will eventually kill it but you have to keep at it.

Enjoyed the update
Todd

 

[dogghr]

You know I try to accept anything on the landscape, but that thistle makes me loose my religion. I mowed some the other day the size of small trees. Sometimes I spray, but usually just mow when bloom is just ready to start its nasty stuff. BTW, liked your pic of you and the young lady.

 

[Flyfixer]

Great land tour! Good luck on getting your daughter a deer this year. My daughter who is now in college informed me that she wanted to hunt this year She has not hunted since she started high school, too many other priorities. I am fighting thistle also. Crossbow and Milestone seem to work well.

 

[j-bird]

Thanks everyone. We have to roll with the punches as far as what our properties throw at us. As for the kids....you will see me say it time and time again.....take kids hunting. It's the ONLY way to perpetuate our sport and creates the next generation of conservationists!

 

[j-bird]

Ok - I know some folks shake their heads at how I can plant small plots and not have the deer destroy them. It is VERY simple......overwhelming volume!

This was taken over the weekend. This is a 180 degree view of my South upper field and my SW field.


So just on my property, and just in that area I have 50 acres of full season soybeans. That doesn't include my field to the north (another 20 acres of beans) or my south bottom field (another 15 acres of corn). And that is just my place! You look at the big picture of my area and it's everywhere! Now considering I have low deer numbers on top of that......that is how I can plant 1/4 and 1/2 acre soybean plots and get away with it. This volume of ag also has changed and influenced my plotting efforts as well.

Before we get into plots - I wanted to post this up. It's a soil map of my place. It lists all the soil types, the slopes and all sorts of information about my "dirt". http://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm


Ok - back to plotting. When I first got into QDM all you hear about is "year round nutrition" - and I still believe that is very important......however, that nutrition doesn't have to come from me! As obvious as all the ag crops are - I didn't see it. Early on I focused on providing that year round nutrition in my plots and I was driving myself crazy in the process because my plotting acres are limited - I really needed to dedicate as much as I can to cover (my limiting habitat resource). The cash rent we get for the farm ground is a significant boost to our household income, so walking away from that was/is not an option (CRP pays me a rent that matches what I would make in farming rental). One day it hit me......"Why an I worried about summertime forage?" I am surrounded by the largest summer forage plot I could imagine!!!! On top of that deer season doesn't open until October.....so I have NO worry about those deer being killed until then. Now I will also say I have seen significant advances in farming as far as harvest goes. Years ago you would swear that combine had a hole in it. Missed corn and beans made ag fields destinations for deer. To some extent they still are, but not like in the past. Now you have to really look and look hard for a dropped ear of corn, in the past you couldn't walk 30 yards and not see one.

Since then I don't worry about summer time forage - the neighbors can feed the deer in the summer time! I focus on spring, fall and winter, and try to offer things they can;t get other places. Now that said, I don't have winters like MN or WI, I typically don't get feet of snow on the ground at a time. So now I plot in an effort to provide a winter grain (typically corn) and then fall annual plots of cereal grains and brassica, and then my perennial plots for spring and fall as well. Now my deer don't hammer brassica. They have started to eat it some, but for the most part it just rots. However it is good for the soil and they are a cheap winter insurance - should my corn not produce or we get a strange winter of deep snow or a prolonged winter. I also try to get my plots to do double duty. My perennial plots are also small fruit orchards and my annual plots will be spring planted to produce my fall/winter grain and then they will be broadcast or otherwise seeded with my fall annuals as well. I tell everyone, "If my deer starve - it's because they are stupid!"

This may not apply to many folks - but it's how sometimes the obvious.....isn't so obvious. It also demonstrates how you can use what is going on with neighboring properties to your advantage. The other thing I do is I plant about 2 weeks after the neighboring farmers do. That is for good reason. When those farmers plant I want their fields to have germinated and start drawing the deer to them. This pulls deer off of my place and reduces the chances of the deer hammering my little plots as they germinate and develop thru to more delicate growth stages. I have done a similar thing this fall. All my beans are still very green, but I planted my peas in hopes that the deer will remain focused on the beans until the peas can reach a decent size. Once the beans start to yellow the deer will shift to other food sources and hopefully my peas will be advanced enough to at least still be a draw come hunting season. They may not and I am OK with that, that is why I plant different foods.....and provide that diversity - so the deer have something to eat all the time. I'm just willing to let the neighbors feed the deer when the deer can't be hunted!

 

[lakngolf]

Wow, your deer do not lack for Ag crops to browse, and that must be some rich soil. Really like all you have done with plots, clearings, fruit trees and involvement of younger generation. Looking forward to riding along. It gets me when I realize how early some of you plant the food plots, but then you are not in the hot, humid south.

 

[OkieKubota]

Wow - really great tutorial and explanation of your thought process on your property and goals. I think you are spot on!

BTW - I wish I could find a good 2 bottom plow and then once I find one I wish I could get it at that price