J-birds place

[j-bird]

Well we have had about a week of solid rain but the weather changed sunday and I decided to take advantage. The ground was real soggy so I couldn't do any tractor work so I decided to to try to do some things I had never done before.....

A week a go or so I pruned my apple trees and kept some of the ends.....scions as the apple folks call them. So I decided to give grafting a whirl. Now, first of all it may be too early for trying this. As such I retained plenty of scions for later attempts if needed. Secondly I have no real idea of what I am doing. But they say the longest journey starts with the first step, and you can't succeed if you never try!

So - I have no ides what apple types I added to a small section of this ornamental crab I have. I really don't care as this is simply an experiment and a learning experience. Now some will tell me I used all the wrong tools and the like but I used what I had. I used a box cutter with new razor blades, electrical tape and some pruning/tree wound healing stuff - sort of like tar!

I tried 2 different graft types and whip graft and a cleft graft. The razor blades made it pretty easy to cut the soft wood of the scions.

I tried to match the branch sizes as much as I could on the whip grafts and many of the cleft grafts I put two smaller scions into those. On the cleft grafts I use a pocket knife and a small hammer to split the cut end. On both grafts I tried to line up the bark and the like as much as I could. I experimented a little bit with the use of the prune tar stuff some I used and then wrapped, some I wrapped and then applied the stuff others I just used the tape. Again, I have plenty to play with so I am just trying to see what will work. Oh, and I properly broke in the new box cutter! Nothing serious, just enough to make a mess and get in the way!


After I did roughly 8 different grafts I decided I was done for the day with that, as I plan to try other areas of the tree later in the spring to see what sort of affect timing has on the grafting success.

So then I remembered I have a large elderberry plant in an area where I essentially have no deer, because of it's location. So again I decided to try to experiment some. First thing I did was give it a significant hair cut. I have other elderberries that need to be cut way back, but I want to see how this one responds before I attack my other bushes. I them tried to save many of the ends sort of like cuttings. Some I simply stuck straight into the ground. If they grow great if not, big deal. No protection, no nothing, I simply moved to some soft soil and stuck as much into the soft ground as I could.....good luck little buddies! Others I cut to about 8" long or so and decided to stick in water and see what happens. You will see I think I am screwed because the bush had already started showing signs of the buds opening, but again.....I am out nothing more than my time.


I will try to follow up on how things go and post up any positive results. There is a chance all I did was waste my time.....but it beat sitting on the couch!

 

[KDdid]

Well we have had about a week of solid rain but the weather changed sunday and I decided to take advantage. The ground was real soggy so I couldn't do any tractor work so I decided to to try to do some things I had never done before.....

A week a go or so I pruned my apple trees and kept some of the ends.....scions as the apple folks call them. So I decided to give grafting a whirl. Now, first of all it may be too early for trying this. As such I retained plenty of scions for later attempts if needed. Secondly I have no real idea of what I am doing. But they say the longest journey starts with the first step, and you can't succeed if you never try!

So - I have no ides what apple types I added to a small section of this ornamental crab I have. I really don't care as this is simply an experiment and a learning experience. Now some will tell me I used all the wrong tools and the like but I used what I had. I used a box cutter with new razor blades, electrical tape and some pruning/tree wound healing stuff - sort of like tar!

I tried 2 different graft types and whip graft and a cleft graft. The razor blades made it pretty easy to cut the soft wood of the scions.
View attachment 11285
I tried to match the branch sizes as much as I could on the whip grafts and many of the cleft grafts I put two smaller scions into those. On the cleft grafts I use a pocket knife and a small hammer to split the cut end. On both grafts I tried to line up the bark and the like as much as I could. I experimented a little bit with the use of the prune tar stuff some I used and then wrapped, some I wrapped and then applied the stuff others I just used the tape. Again, I have plenty to play with so I am just trying to see what will work. Oh, and I properly broke in the new box cutter! Nothing serious, just enough to make a mess and get in the way!
View attachment 11286

After I did roughly 8 different grafts I decided I was done for the day with that, as I plan to try other areas of the tree later in the spring to see what sort of affect timing has on the grafting success.

So then I remembered I have a large elderberry plant in an area where I essentially have no deer, because of it's location. So again I decided to try to experiment some. First thing I did was give it a significant hair cut. I have other elderberries that need to be cut way back, but I want to see how this one responds before I attack my other bushes. I them tried to save many of the ends sort of like cuttings. Some I simply stuck straight into the ground. If they grow great if not, big deal. No protection, no nothing, I simply moved to some soft soil and stuck as much into the soft ground as I could.....good luck little buddies! Others I cut to about 8" long or so and decided to stick in water and see what happens. You will see I think I am screwed because the bush had already started showing signs of the buds opening, but again.....I am out nothing more than my time.
View attachment 11287

I will try to follow up on how things go and post up any positive results. There is a chance all I did was waste my time.....but it beat sitting on the couch!

From my testing last year, it seems that elderberry is very willing to root from cuttings. I did the same yesterday with elderberry, willow, and red osier dogwood. I put them in damp areas, so I hope they won’t dry out(or flood out). I’m about 3 hours north, and no sign of budding out here yet.


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[j-bird]

From my testing last year, it seems that elderberry is very willing to root from cuttings. I did the same yesterday with elderberry, willow, and red osier dogwood. I put them in damp areas, so I hope they won’t dry out(or flood out). I’m about 3 hours north, and no sign of budding out here yet.


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Only "cuttings" I have any experience with thus far is MG....if the elderberry is at all like the MG then I will be in fine shape. Things down here are very wet - with many of the rivers swollen beyond their banks, but finally receding.....until we get more rain which is in the forecast. I have an area in a flood plain where I want to use some acorns I have and maybe some of these elderberry cutting and create a nice edge between a plot and some cover. I know some folks say deer love to browse the elderberry so I will cage it and let the deer eat what grows beyond the cage. I also have some that need a heavy trimming, but I want to see how the one responds before I go too crazy!

 

[KDdid]

I have an area at the back of the farm, along the drainage ditch that I’m going to stick some elderberry cuttings into. It’s within the county maintenance easement, but since we haven’t seen any county maintenance in about 45 years, I’m not to worried about their fate. I haven’t seen much browse on them, but then we have low deer numbers here in Allen County.


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[j-bird]

I have an area at the back of the farm, along the drainage ditch that I’m going to stick some elderberry cuttings into. It’s within the county maintenance easement, but since we haven’t seen any county maintenance in about 45 years, I’m not to worried about their fate. I haven’t seen much browse on them, but then we have low deer numbers here in Allen County.


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I don't recall where I saw it, but someone had one planted and caged and the deer ate it back to the cage time and time again. I have few deer as well, but I also tend to lack shrubs in general and if I can get them to grow well I will spread them to all corners if I can just to help the understory. I have some that are 10 feet tall or more and I need to cut them back to do more good as well. I am moving more and more towards native plants for feeding deer with me doing less and less actual plotting. I think this will serve me and the deer better down the road. I doubt I give up plots altogether, but a decent native food supply (even in farm country in my case) I think is something many folks overlook.

 

[KDdid]

That’s exactly where I’m headed too. The more I discover about the incredible amount of forage that old field habitat provides, the less interest I have in food plotting. I’m envisioning a time when the only plotting that I do may be some clover lanes that double as firebreaks.


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[j-bird]

Went out yesterday with my youngest and burnt off some switchgrass. I do this for 2 reasons. First it exposes the cool season weeds that I can spray and kill before the switchgrass wakes up and secondly - I hope it will reveal some sheds. well....no sheds, but did see the stilt grass is awake and needs sprayed. Also helped exposed some of the tree tops I needed to push around as part of my trail project.

Also got some "help". She claim to be "the worlds best tractor driver, fire setter, tree cutter"!!!! Kids! Somebody really liked when the wind would pick up and fuel the fire!!!!

Also sings of the spring green up.....clover is waking up and the winter wheat I overseeded into my beans is green and very evident now as well. My "cedar cross" project appears to be doing OK, but the cedars seem to be fairly slow growing.....but then again I tend to be very impatient!


Hope to get out yet today and see what else we can get done.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Winter wheat coming up, that's a welcome sign. It's probably 5 more weeks before I even start looking for rye coming up.

 

[j-bird]

Well I got another project started. I went to my "north triangle" area and cleared an area in prep for becoming a clover, chicory plot. Its about 100 yards inside the woods of an inside corner with a bedding area near bay as well as my "scrape vine" is not far as well.

When we started....lots of weeds, briars, downed limbs and the like. Some burning and some tractor work and we got it in pretty good shape.



Tried to leave some trees and the beech to help the security aspect of the plot.....you can see the inside corner in the back I thinks this may be a real interesting staging area type plot.



The water hole has filled nicely with all the rain, but I think I may still need to add some clay to try to ensure it will hold water all summer.

 

[j-bird]

I planted the plot I cleared in my previous post today. Broadcast 4 lbs of Endure Forage Chicory and 1 lb of Jumbo 2 Ladino clover. Got it from my local seed store. It may be a bit early, but it should be fine. I will continue to monitor it to see how it goes. I wanted a heavy amount of chicory so this should be a real interesting spot for late October and early November.

Also found something odd..... I have a stump where I put a mineral block last year - it was gone around the end of summer last year and I didn't replace it. I went out today to replace the mineral block on the same stump......and in the bare ground around the stump there are clumps of white deer hair.....several. I am not sure if this is normal or something I should be concerned about. With no mineral there I didn't have a cam either, so I am not sure what happened. I am certain it's deer hair.

 

[j-bird]

The world is full of irony......and I got a good does of it this morning.

I received a notification from Fedex that my trees (6 crab-apples) from Turkey Creek are on their way.....and I woke up to this! About 3 or 4 inches of wet heavy snow! What great tree planting weather! If you don't like the weather in Indiana, don't worry - it will change quickly! I was out moving straw bales Sunday afternoon and evening in a T-shirt!!!!!

 

[pinetag]

The world is full of irony......and I got a good does of it this morning.

I received a notification from Fedex that my trees (6 crab-apples) from Turkey Creek are on their way.....and I woke up to this! About 3 or 4 inches of wet heavy snow! What great tree planting weather! If you don't like the weather in Indiana, don't worry - it will change quickly! I was out moving straw bales Sunday afternoon and evening in a T-shirt!!!!!
View attachment 11460

Sounds like VA! We are getting snow today, another possible chance this weekend, and by the beginning of next week it will be in the 60's. But that's nothing...I've seen it go from mid 20's at night to mid 70's within a two day span. I'm surprised anything can grow here with all of our weather mood swings!

That burn down from earlier this month looks good!

 

[j-bird]

Sounds like VA! We are getting snow today, another possible chance this weekend, and by the beginning of next week it will be in the 60's. But that's nothing...I've seen it go from mid 20's at night to mid 70's within a two day span. I'm surprised anything can grow here with all of our weather mood swings!

That burn down from earlier this month looks good!

Yep - first day of spring......and we get snow....what a kick in the pants! I'm gonna be upset if this creates issues with my clover/chicory seed I put down last weekend!

 

[Mennoniteman]

Yep - first day of spring......and we get snow....what a kick in the pants! I'm gonna be upset if this creates issues with my clover/chicory seed I put down last weekend!

Snow should actually help your clover and chicory seed get better soil to seed contact, like frost seeding. I predict that once this snow is gone a week of sunshine will pop your seed right out of the ground

 

[j-bird]

Snow should actually help your clover and chicory seed get better soil to seed contact, like frost seeding. I predict that once this snow is gone a week of sunshine will pop your seed right out of the ground

I hope so.....I was just so pumped for spring to be here.....then the snow came. It's mostly melted now, but forecast is for 5 to 8 inches of snow again saturday.......

 

[j-bird]

Got some trees planted today...... Had some help. I got to give some props to Turkey Creek Nursery as the root mass on my trees I was pretty impressed with. I planted 3 dolgo crabs in my south bottom and 3 chestnut crabs in my SW area as well. The creek was up due to all the recent rain or I would have covered the weed barrier in creek gravel......I will do that once the creek level drops back to normal. Now I just need some warmer temps and some sunshine to see just how well they do.

 

[j-bird]

Someone made a comment on another thread about a $5 tree and a $50 dollar hole.....and got me to thinking so I thought I would put some numbers to my little crab apple planting. I thought a pic would help.



Tree price included shipping so you can see the actual "investment" if you will. This was a bare root tree and many 3 gallon container type trees will cost in the ballpark of $30 or even more sometimes.

The exterior cage is used to keep the deer and larger critters from destroying the tree. You can use old woven wire fence, concrete wire or whatever is cheap and easy that will retain it's shape. I use 5 feet tall because this prevents the deer from being able to easily reach down into it and getting to the tree. I also use roughly a 8 to 9 feet of linear length. Keep in mind the diameter you seek is a function of the linear length....the diameter is roughly 1/3 of the linear length just to keep things simple. My 8 foot length gives me a diameter of about 2 1/2 feet.

The post U used is called a "U" post and is a lightweight type post. You can use a common "T" post as well or any other post you wish to use. Just remember that wood will rot over time.

You don't have to use ground staples, I just did in this case because I was not able to immediately cover the weed barrier.

Weed barrier in my opinion is required. This is a fabric and NOT plastic. This allows the air and water to pass but not allow weeds to grow to compete with your tree. I use a 36" wide x 50 feet roll and have plenty for many trees. I simply cut a slit from the very center to an edge and install similar to an old school X-mas tree skirt. Just make sure it's at least the size of your exterior cage.

Interior cage is a requirement as well. The purpose it to prevent small rodents from chewing on the bark of the tree and killing it. It only needs to be larger than the trunk of your tree, however it needs to be tall enough to protect the trunk considering your typical snow fall level if at all possible. I use 2 or 3 feet tall x 5 feet rolls of 1/2" x 1/2" hardware cloth. Many use metal window screen as well and it works just fine.

I use bailing wire to fasten/wire the exterior cage closed if needed as well as the interior cage and to attach and hold the exterior cage to the post as well. It's cheap and it works and will last longer than something like a zip-tie.

I prefer to use gravel of some sort to cover the weed barrier. I get mine from a creek on my property....just takes some work. Some use wood mulch, but I have had issues with that so I switched to gravel and have not had an issue. The gravel allows the water to pass as well.

As you can see you will make an investment in the protection of the tree.....but do it right the first time and you only have to do it once. I don't know about a $5 tree or a $50 hole......but you should consider the cost and time of the protection materials in your projects to ensure you don't over extend yourself which tends to lead to cutting corners and frustration down the road.

 

[j-bird]

Well I was able to get between rain showers and get some pics for some updates on how things are progress around my place.

April showers and all of that...... I was actually looking for shrooms, shed and deer beds!


Found some other signs of spring.....some good....some bad. The Bad....the Jap bush honeysuckle is wide awake....however this helps me find it to further work towards getting rid of it. My switchgrass is even waking up!

My new crabapples are waking up as well.....just concerned about what this cold front is going to do to them.....

And finally a grafting update......I fear I have failed but we will wait and see I guess..... The tree is waking up and the apples that the scions are waking up as well...... But for some reason my scions seem to not be responding......may have tried to graft too soon.

 

[Buckeye]

I planted the plot I cleared in my previous post today. Broadcast 4 lbs of Endure Forage Chicory and 1 lb of Jumbo 2 Ladino clover. Got it from my local seed store. It may be a bit early, but it should be fine. I will continue to monitor it to see how it goes. I wanted a heavy amount of chicory so this should be a real interesting spot for late October and early November.
View attachment 11430
Also found something odd..... I have a stump where I put a mineral block last year - it was gone around the end of summer last year and I didn't replace it. I went out today to replace the mineral block on the same stump......and in the bare ground around the stump there are clumps of white deer hair.....several. I am not sure if this is normal or something I should be concerned about. With no mineral there I didn't have a cam either, so I am not sure what happened. I am certain it's deer hair.
View attachment 11431

I say the hair is from the deer shedding their winter coat.

 

[j-bird]

Well I was able to get out over the weekend and check up on some things....

Put some elderberry cuttings in the ground. This in in the bank of the waterhole in the north. I thought it was sort of early for moss....but what do I know! I do know the elderberry like moist soil so this is about as "moist" as I can get. These are all just experiments to see what works and what doesn't.

We put some in some other places as well - the intent will be to get these caged soon - otherwise I fear they may simply get pulled back out as deer food.

My grafts still are not showing signs of life, so I cut one and it seems to still be green, but may be lacking moisture. I did tape up thosewound when I was done. The trees the grafts came from are all opening, but my grafts.....not so much......so we wait some more.

This is the north triangle plot we burned off and planted. No signs of chicory or clover yet, but mother nature is providing her own green food at the moment. Mostly spring time broadleaf plants of the woods. I am not too concerned just yet..... Orange ribbons show where we planted a cluster of the elderberry cuttings as well. I had plenty....so why not!


Annual plot update. The SW plot that was soybeans and was overseed with winter wheat is well used. The soybeans are stripped clean and the wheat is ok - it could use a bit of fertilizer I am sure, but this will all be tilled under around memorial day any way. I did mow the bean stubble. The south bottom plot was a different story. This was soybeans and corn mixed with some winter wheat added as well. The soybeans still had a lot of beans in the pods and the corn never amounted to anything. Spring flooding also left debris piles for me to clean up. So I pushed the debris piles out of the plot with the FEL and mowed down all the beans and corn stubble. I am not sure what the beans will do as many appeared to still be in decent shape. Because the deer are not fully utilizing this plot I am making some changes and will reduce this plot in size. I am thinking 1/3 will be corn or soybeans, 1/3 may be a fall annual plot and 1/3 may be converter to trees and shrubs. I see no point in planting food the deer won't eat.