Interesting History

[Hoosierhunting]

I thought this history snippet about the passenger pigeon was interesting regarding the effect on forest composition but the white oak dominance part runs counter to what I have always been told regarding the dominance of the American Chestnut in eastern forests. What do you guys think?

 

[Hoosierhunting]

If nothing else, those pigeons couldn't picked a better place to cover in crap than Columbus.....hopefully it was concentrated on the OSU campus.

 

[struttingfool]

I could not agree more. Go BLUE!!!!!

 

[Fishman]

I am pretty sure that the first six minutes or so of the video are based on the following paper. Potential Effects of Passenger Pigeon Flocks on the Structure and Composition of Presettlement Forests of Eastern North America It is an interesting paper if you read it. As stated in the video, the paper concludes that disturbance by the large flocks of pigeons allowed white oaks to thrive while limiting red oaks and other species. Some scientists have also proposed that the extinction of the passenger pigeon has lead to the increase of Lyme disease. The pigeons competed with mice for acorns. After the pigeons went extinct, mice populations increased with the mice serving as hosts for larval ticks.

While many have stated that chestnuts were the dominant species in eastern forests, some scientists are refuting those conclusions. This paper, Oaks were the historical foundation genus of the east-central United States, concludes that "Oak was the most abundant genus, ranging from 40% to 70% of total tree composition at the ecological province scale and generally increasing in dominance from east to west across this area."

This paper, Did American Chestnut Really Dominate the Eastern Forest?, found that "American chestnut was once a common tree species throughout its Appalachian Mountain range and a dominant species in parts of its central and southern range (primarily the oak-chestnut forest region). However, prior to European settlement, it was less dominant than white oak and beech and far less widespread than most other major tree species. With increasing timber harvesting in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, chestnut’s dominance increased in the northern part of its range in heavily cut-over forestland. Still, the tree remained absent from fully two-thirds of the eastern forest, precluding it from ever being the dominant tree of this biome."

Finally, this paper, Four Centuries of Change in Northeastern United States Forests, states "Conventional wisdom holds that chestnut was among the dominant overstory species throughout eastern forests. However, the average relative abundance of chestnut in the pre-colonial data was only 3.3-percent. Its highest abundance was in the Appalachian ecoregion, and even there it was less than ten percent and just one-quarter that of oak. Indeed, and in contrast to many other southern and northern taxa, no town in our analysis exceeded 25-percent pre-colonial chestnut abundance. These data suggest that the historical dominance of chestnut is currently often overstated, at least in the Northeast."

 

[dogghr]

Cool video Hoosier. Not completely sure of analysis presented but do agree general consensus the chestnut, while quite abundant, was not the primary hard mast tree of most of the east but did exist in good numbers in certain areas. Fishman gave a good review of most thinking today.
I just finished a book written in the mid 1800s of excursions into the then wilds of present WV hardwood forests. It is considered a great description of the flora present at that time before extensive logging and subsequent fires would change the centuries old forests forever.
We continue to mismanage and reshape the natural order of forest from its precolonial condition by certain logging practices even done by deer managers specically repeated high grade timbering. Then we spend hours, and dollars to try and plant wanted acorn producers that nature would have given for free if we would only plan practices not based on dollar profits. Thanks for showing.

 

[Hoosierhunting]

I am pretty sure that the first six minutes or so of the video are based on the following paper. Potential Effects of Passenger Pigeon Flocks on the Structure and Composition of Presettlement Forests of Eastern North America It is an interesting paper if you read it. As stated in the video, the paper concludes that disturbance by the large flocks of pigeons allowed white oaks to thrive while limiting red oaks and other species. Some scientists have also proposed that the extinction of the passenger pigeon has lead to the increase of Lyme disease. The pigeons competed with mice for acorns. After the pigeons went extinct, mice populations increased with the mice serving as hosts for larval ticks.

While many have stated that chestnuts were the dominant species in eastern forests, some scientists are refuting those conclusions. This paper, Oaks were the historical foundation genus of the east-central United States, concludes that "Oak was the most abundant genus, ranging from 40% to 70% of total tree composition at the ecological province scale and generally increasing in dominance from east to west across this area."

This paper, Did American Chestnut Really Dominate the Eastern Forest?, found that "American chestnut was once a common tree species throughout its Appalachian Mountain range and a dominant species in parts of its central and southern range (primarily the oak-chestnut forest region). However, prior to European settlement, it was less dominant than white oak and beech and far less widespread than most other major tree species. With increasing timber harvesting in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, chestnut’s dominance increased in the northern part of its range in heavily cut-over forestland. Still, the tree remained absent from fully two-thirds of the eastern forest, precluding it from ever being the dominant tree of this biome."

Finally, this paper, Four Centuries of Change in Northeastern United States Forests, states "Conventional wisdom holds that chestnut was among the dominant overstory species throughout eastern forests. However, the average relative abundance of chestnut in the pre-colonial data was only 3.3-percent. Its highest abundance was in the Appalachian ecoregion, and even there it was less than ten percent and just one-quarter that of oak. Indeed, and in contrast to many other southern and northern taxa, no town in our analysis exceeded 25-percent pre-colonial chestnut abundance. These data suggest that the historical dominance of chestnut is currently often overstated, at least in the Northeast."

This is what I love about this forum, guys who take the time to share and spread knowledge so freely. Thanks Fishman, really interesting reads, I was definitely under the misconception that the American Chestnut was the dominant species in the Eastern forests.

 

[Hoosierhunting]

Cool video Hoosier. Not completely sure of analysis presented but do agree general consensus the chestnut, while quite abundant, was not the primary hard mast tree of most of the east but did exist in good numbers in certain areas. Fishman gave a good review of most thinking today.
I just finished a book written in the mid 1800s of excursions into the then wilds of present WV hardwood forests. It is considered a great description of the flora present at that time before extensive logging and subsequent fires would change the centuries old forests forever.
We continue to mismanage and reshape the natural order of forest from its precolonial condition by certain logging practices even done by deer managers specically repeated high grade timbering. Then we spend hours, and dollars to try and plant wanted acorn producers that nature would have given for free if we would only plan practices not based on dollar profits. Thanks for showing.

What's the book, sounds interesting? I just finished Undaunted Courage - a good Lewis and Clark read, and don't have a new book lined up just yet.

 

[dogghr]

Called The Blackwater Chronicle follows a group of guys into the Canaan of now WV which is still one of my favorite wilderness backpacking, hunting, skiing, sightseeing areas of the east. Written in typical old English which can be a bit tricky to read. Also illustrates the thinking of that era of the abundance and supposed endless supply of plant and animal resources. They caught and ate hundreds of native trout without any thot. Illustrates presence of balance of all animals prey and predator and their existence in obviously mature forests.
In my humble opinion, one can still manage deer as I do with mature timber interspersed with new growth edge in my Ramdom Clusters. Why we choose to cut a 75+ yo oak tree that produces tons of food for many animals including deer evades my thinking. And then we do all these plantings to provide hard mast waiting years for that to happen. I drive my 2 logging operation buddies crazy, but they are obviously trying to make a profit and I get that.
Not to beat it to death, but the thread, The Mighty Acorn, on this site plagiarizes a lot of info of the precolonial and present day Eastern forests if one want to read thru its annals.
Still very much enjoyed the video you showed and brought up some interesting thinking, including color changes of the forests.

 

[shedder]

I am pretty sure that the first six minutes or so of the video are based on the following paper. Potential Effects of Passenger Pigeon Flocks on the Structure and Composition of Presettlement Forests of Eastern North America It is an interesting paper if you read it. As stated in the video, the paper concludes that disturbance by the large flocks of pigeons allowed white oaks to thrive while limiting red oaks and other species. Some scientists have also proposed that the extinction of the passenger pigeon has lead to the increase of Lyme disease. The pigeons competed with mice for acorns. After the pigeons went extinct, mice populations increased with the mice serving as hosts for larval ticks.

While many have stated that chestnuts were the dominant species in eastern forests, some scientists are refuting those conclusions. This paper, Oaks were the historical foundation genus of the east-central United States, concludes that "Oak was the most abundant genus, ranging from 40% to 70% of total tree composition at the ecological province scale and generally increasing in dominance from east to west across this area."

This paper, Did American Chestnut Really Dominate the Eastern Forest?, found that "American chestnut was once a common tree species throughout its Appalachian Mountain range and a dominant species in parts of its central and southern range (primarily the oak-chestnut forest region). However, prior to European settlement, it was less dominant than white oak and beech and far less widespread than most other major tree species. With increasing timber harvesting in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, chestnut’s dominance increased in the northern part of its range in heavily cut-over forestland. Still, the tree remained absent from fully two-thirds of the eastern forest, precluding it from ever being the dominant tree of this biome."

Finally, this paper, Four Centuries of Change in Northeastern United States Forests, states "Conventional wisdom holds that chestnut was among the dominant overstory species throughout eastern forests. However, the average relative abundance of chestnut in the pre-colonial data was only 3.3-percent. Its highest abundance was in the Appalachian ecoregion, and even there it was less than ten percent and just one-quarter that of oak. Indeed, and in contrast to many other southern and northern taxa, no town in our analysis exceeded 25-percent pre-colonial chestnut abundance. These data suggest that the historical dominance of chestnut is currently often overstated, at least in the Northeast."

Did you get those papers from my prior postings?

 

[Fishman]

Did you get those papers from my prior postings?

I wish my memory was still good enough to remember where I found them. I use Goggle Scholar a lot. I will read about a topic of interest and then go search to see what researchers have found. I have roughly 75 papers bookmarked on a variety of topics like direct seeding, acorn germination, tree tubes, root pruned vs bare root seedlings, how oaks have evovled with nut predators, etc.

 

[shedder]

I wish my memory was still good enough to remember where I found them. I use Goggle Scholar a lot. I will read about a topic of interest and then go search to see what researchers have found. I have roughly 75 papers bookmarked on a variety of topics like direct seeding, acorn germination, tree tubes, root pruned vs bare root seedlings, how oaks have evovled with nut predators, etc.

OK, it is good to know we have the same interests. I also research heavily and post a lot of journal papers here and elsewhere.