Glyphosate on young clover....
- Thread starter David
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Tap
Well-Known Member
I'd bet you'd put a severe hurting on the clover.
2 questions:
#1; What weed is it that needs the glyphosate? Some weeds are so undesirable that I'd rather live with killing the clover if...
#2; when does your planting season end in SC? It may be well worth it (if you have a weed that just has to be dealt with) to nuke it all and replant if you have enough growing season left. Being from Pa, I can't speak about your growing seasons in SC. (NOTE: I'll get on my worn-out soap box and insist that posters on this site to be required to show some sort of location. It's often completely out of context to give/take advice from guys of vastly different regions).
On the other hand, there are a lot of weeds that we get bent out of shape over that aren't really that big of a problem.
And if you are talking about doing the Ed Spin method of a weak gly mix, I wouldn't do it. Mix gly to the labeled strength. These weak mixes are inviting gly resistant weeds.
2 questions:
#1; What weed is it that needs the glyphosate? Some weeds are so undesirable that I'd rather live with killing the clover if...
#2; when does your planting season end in SC? It may be well worth it (if you have a weed that just has to be dealt with) to nuke it all and replant if you have enough growing season left. Being from Pa, I can't speak about your growing seasons in SC. (NOTE: I'll get on my worn-out soap box and insist that posters on this site to be required to show some sort of location. It's often completely out of context to give/take advice from guys of vastly different regions).
On the other hand, there are a lot of weeds that we get bent out of shape over that aren't really that big of a problem.
And if you are talking about doing the Ed Spin method of a weak gly mix, I wouldn't do it. Mix gly to the labeled strength. These weak mixes are inviting gly resistant weeds.
Last edited:
FarmerD
Active Member
You will more than likely kill the clover right now. I've sprayed it on established clover, in the spring with lots of moisture in the soil and it set it back a few weeks, but killed the weeds. You don't have that right now. However, there will be lot of broad leaf weeds that will get get frozen out at the first hard frost. I'd wait and reassess your situation next spring and if you have lots of grass in there spray with clethodim or invest in a weed wiper, wait till the offending plants get above your clover and use a 50/50 mix of glyphosate and wipe over top. Not a perfect solution, but a pretty good one.
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David
Active Member
I had planned, (and probably will stick with the plan) to nuke and then properly plant. I was hoping I could somehow keep some of the reseeding clover. I just feel like I am wasting all of the capital (seeds) from last year's clover.
Our august was the coolest I can remember. Many nights were in the upper 50's. I guess it caused the clover seed to germinate.
Most of the weeds are so young (I nuked it 3 weeks ago) I am not sure what they are.
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Our august was the coolest I can remember. Many nights were in the upper 50's. I guess it caused the clover seed to germinate.
Most of the weeds are so young (I nuked it 3 weeks ago) I am not sure what they are.
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dogghr
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't nuke it and if you spray gly on new clover you will probably kill it. Clover can take a year to come on strong. Just over seed with WR and clover late Sept for your area and mow the weeds. You can add brassica or oats to the mix.
Now give some thot as to why the weed is there. Is it actually serving a purpose for your soil? Is its long taproot mining nutrients that your clover will eventually use? Are those same roots busting the soil, improving water retention? Are those weeds really just some ugly food for wildlife/deer? Are they there because soil ph is off, or amendments are needed?
Sit back and take in the whole picture, not just the weed that aggravates you. Good luck.
Now give some thot as to why the weed is there. Is it actually serving a purpose for your soil? Is its long taproot mining nutrients that your clover will eventually use? Are those same roots busting the soil, improving water retention? Are those weeds really just some ugly food for wildlife/deer? Are they there because soil ph is off, or amendments are needed?
Sit back and take in the whole picture, not just the weed that aggravates you. Good luck.
I'm confused (which is not uncommon) - does clover need to be under stress or unstressed to survive gly?
Kabic
Active Member
Maybe two different trains of thought here.
If it is stressed fron summer heat and drought it is not growing. If it is not growing or it is dormant gly won't kill it. That is why gly works best on young plants.
On the other hand really healthy clover can take a lighter dose of gly. It will set it back some but then come back strong.
If it is stressed fron summer heat and drought it is not growing. If it is not growing or it is dormant gly won't kill it. That is why gly works best on young plants.
On the other hand really healthy clover can take a lighter dose of gly. It will set it back some but then come back strong.
THE LLC
Well-Known Member
Under stress from drought is when it works best for me.
dogghr
Well-Known Member
That's interesting LLC. How'd u come up w that? Everything I've read from Lickcreek to Spagnoli is only do it when clover very healthy and no drought. I've only done it mid May for that reason w good success. And since Aug would be stressed clover in this area not sure what affect on weeds since they have for most already seeded out. I'd rather kill them before seeding. But as said really don't worry much about them anymore. Not denying you just always ready for new opinion.
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X-farmerdan
Well-Known Member
First, let me say you should never use glyphosate on anything you don't want to kill - permanently - forever. That is what it does. Now , from time to time it fails and that's what you are counting on when you spray it on clover. You want it to fail to kill the clover....and kill everything that is not.
If you don't know the difference between annuals and perennials, if you don't know the difference between warm season and cool season plants don't spray glyphosate on clover.
What causes glyphosate to fail? Plants that are dormant. Plants that are alive but having a huge root system with an inadequate dose of glyphosate.
Here's one scenario. Its summer. The temps are in the 90's. Clover is a perennial, cool season plant. Guess what it does on a hot day or for a period of extended days? It shuts down. it shuts down to preserve moisture. Meanwhile, the annual warm season weeds are thriving and sucking up any thing that resembles moisture. And the clover (assuming it's established a couple years) has a monster root system. The summer annual grasses and broadleaf weeds got very little root system. An ounce of gly can cover a lot of ground. With the clover, not so much.
If you don't know the difference between annuals and perennials, if you don't know the difference between warm season and cool season plants don't spray glyphosate on clover.
What causes glyphosate to fail? Plants that are dormant. Plants that are alive but having a huge root system with an inadequate dose of glyphosate.
Here's one scenario. Its summer. The temps are in the 90's. Clover is a perennial, cool season plant. Guess what it does on a hot day or for a period of extended days? It shuts down. it shuts down to preserve moisture. Meanwhile, the annual warm season weeds are thriving and sucking up any thing that resembles moisture. And the clover (assuming it's established a couple years) has a monster root system. The summer annual grasses and broadleaf weeds got very little root system. An ounce of gly can cover a lot of ground. With the clover, not so much.
dogghr
Well-Known Member
Can't agree w some of that Farmer. First clover can have a good root mass but most is Typically shallow tho which is one reason it goes dormant in drought and heat. Second weeds w poor root mass?? Pull a dandelion , thistle, goldenrod , ironweed , pigweed , etc in mid summer/ when clover is dormant and there is a massive taproot allowing it to suck moisture deep in the soil even in harsh weather. Why not spray those weeds early in the game when clover is established well and weeds are actively trying to establish?? I've just never had anything but a slight browning of clover when spraying gly in may when clover is growing like crazy and it is lush green in couple wks. Again. Best just mow the weeds and don't lose sleep about them or grasses unless you need a pic on cover of mag
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David
Active Member
So I went to the farm sunday, the volunteer clover seed is doing quite well.
To recap, I probably got a little ahead of myself and prepped my clover plots in mid august (nuke, disc, fert,lime). I have been sequentially putting things in the ground down here to hedge my bets on rain. All of my plots got 2 sets of 2.5 inches about 2 weeks apart. August was very cool. Previous years clover seed is now doing quite well.
I have three 1 acre plots to plant. My plan is oats and clover, this year (my second year plotting) I am adding a perennial to the mix.
2 of the 3 plots will be planted are new plots, so I will plant accordingly.
Let's concentrate on my single plot with good clover growing (mostly crimson....90%) The fert and lime and discing obviously encourage some weed seed to germinate also. (Not a huge amount as I disced twice 2 weeks apart, and them sprayed gly.) From what I see the main culprits are plantain, and a mix of a few grasses, very hard for me to tell cool season from warm season at such a young age, but I imagine it's both, if the clover germinated so did some cool season stuff.
So the question on this single one acre plot.....what do I do? It's more academic than anything. I should mention I don't have a planter.
Broadcast oats and new clover and walk away? Pack it when I'm done? (I still use four wheeler tires for packing). Use selective herbicide as needed?
Start from scratch and nuke one more time?
It's my most fertile plot amd it's where I strongly desire to get some perennial clover growing.
To recap, I probably got a little ahead of myself and prepped my clover plots in mid august (nuke, disc, fert,lime). I have been sequentially putting things in the ground down here to hedge my bets on rain. All of my plots got 2 sets of 2.5 inches about 2 weeks apart. August was very cool. Previous years clover seed is now doing quite well.
I have three 1 acre plots to plant. My plan is oats and clover, this year (my second year plotting) I am adding a perennial to the mix.
2 of the 3 plots will be planted are new plots, so I will plant accordingly.
Let's concentrate on my single plot with good clover growing (mostly crimson....90%) The fert and lime and discing obviously encourage some weed seed to germinate also. (Not a huge amount as I disced twice 2 weeks apart, and them sprayed gly.) From what I see the main culprits are plantain, and a mix of a few grasses, very hard for me to tell cool season from warm season at such a young age, but I imagine it's both, if the clover germinated so did some cool season stuff.
So the question on this single one acre plot.....what do I do? It's more academic than anything. I should mention I don't have a planter.
Broadcast oats and new clover and walk away? Pack it when I'm done? (I still use four wheeler tires for packing). Use selective herbicide as needed?
Start from scratch and nuke one more time?
It's my most fertile plot amd it's where I strongly desire to get some perennial clover growing.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I vote for your thought, broadcast oats and clover and walk away. Rolling is going to give you limited benefits, and partly ruin the nice clover you have growing now. Two weeks ago I broadcast oats into standing soybeans and walked away, and the oats are coming along nicely, up about 4". On hindsight, I should have waited a little longer. In your zone the timing should be about right.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Farmer, you are over thinking this about spraying gly on clover. You can spray a light dose of glyphosate on established clover anytime. Clover has an extensive root system that can go as deep as four feet, but it's difficult to kill it with roundup, it takes forty to fifty oz per acre. If clover weren't so beneficial it would probably be considered a noxious weed.
Tap
Well-Known Member
Maybe you CAN spray light doses of gly, but SHOULD you?
Are we developing gly resistant weeds with these weak mixes?
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dogghr
Well-Known Member
I think your plan is good. I'd add WR also when you broadcast. Should do good. You can spray cleth to kill the grasses if you want and could even just spot spray gly on unwanted weeds if the aren't that many. Good luck. I think you will have great plots for your wildlife.
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