Foodplotting In The Mountains...The Sequel

[deer patch]

Great story and buck. I started my random clusters yesterday to tie a couple plots for movement. Burned 3 to 4 tank fulls in the chainsaws. I'm going to need a smaller chainsaw to do this though. Happy New Year.

 

[dogghr]

Great story and buck. I started my random clusters yesterday to tie a couple plots for movement. Burned 3 to 4 tank fulls in the chainsaws. I'm going to need a smaller chainsaw to do this though. Happy New Year.

Good luck and be careful of course. I've got a Stilh 260 that is big and small at same time. Happy New Year also. Looking forward to your results.

 

[deer patch]

Here's a pic of part of what I did.Picture never does any justice for what is actually done. This is in a hollow that is between two plots and the slope to the left of picture is facing south. There was a bed already in this spot so if nothing else maybe something will bed here.

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[dogghr]

Here's a pic of part of what I did.Picture never does any justice for what is actually done. This is in a hollow that is between two plots and the slope to the left of picture is facing south. There was a bed already in this spot so if nothing else maybe something will bed here.

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Looks great Deerpatch. The less you cut into a tree and get it to tip over, the better it survives for a few years. Also, not sure what the larger trees are in back ground, but I'd also drop some of those to reduce crowding on crowns of any good acorn producers. Large trees drop more safely than smaller ones honestly. Double bonus, you get ground cover, open canopy, and allow a good acorn producer to get more light and water. Ok, thats three bonuses. Good luck.

 

[dgallow]

Love the story dogghr! I like to sit and be as unnoticed as possible....but not opposed to still hunting and have some fond memories of that...for now it's more of a still hunt leaving the stand mid-day...or into early afternoon. There was a time when a few people hunted here were walkers.....and you invariably saw more of them below your stand than pushed deer. Some folks just ain't good deer stalkers and are better off sitting!

Patch, I would hinge higher than what you are cutting. If you want to borrow the little saw let me know...cleaning it up this evening. We are dragging more slash than cutting right now so the big saw will work for that. Just wear hearing protection because the muffler has no spark arrestor and is LOUD!

 

[deer patch]

Dogghr the trees in background are oak trees (red, white and water oak) and they all have good looking canopies as I took the time to look at them. The point (top right) is so rocky that nothing would grow much there anyway. Picture Dgallows rocky terrain and you will know what this area looks like. Dad helped me hinge in this area and he tends to cut a little deep and a little low but he turns 70 in March and I'm just glad he wants to help so I let him do what he wants and enjoy the time spent together. He is my best friend and we have hunted and fished together all my life. I'm 47 now. Most of the ones I cut were sawed a little and pulled down by hand and some I had to really pull to get to break over. Main purpose is to get browse to deer level and add cover until sunlight gets things to grow. If the trees doesn't survive I'm not loosing much as all trees are Elm, Hickory or Maple. The whole area is 1/2 to 1 acre in size the pic just doesn't show it all.

Dgallow thanks for the offer on saw but I will have one bought before I hinge again. As far as hinging higher the lower ones are waist high (3 feet) and the higher ones are chest high (almost 5 ft). I don't think I can cut much higher than chest high with that big of a saw. Like I said earlier the pic just doesn't do it justice.

 

[dogghr]

Another half foot of snow and temps kissing zero deg, so this old dog gonna sit by the fire today. Went out yesterday and hinge cut till I broke my chain. Usually have the extra but forgot it. Was done for the most part anyway, so packed it home before dark and snow was falling again. Went up on back ridge to hinge an area I started last summer. I plan to plant some pine. One thing I'm lacking in this part of farm is thermal cover for late season. Hope to change that.

I hate cutting the Black Oak on this ridge. It is hard, spits too easily, and trees are never straight making cutting alittle more tricky. It was my own fault for breaking chain, as I was working saw hard while cutting this stuff, and for got to ck chain tension as bar heated after several hours of cutting. Gave me excuse to leave anyway as evening was coming on. Was so busy, forgot to take pic of hinging. I'll get it later.

 

[lakngolf]

Enjoy the fire! Did a little bit of hinging/pruning on Thursday. This "Ol Dog" just can't "cut the mustard" anymore. (I never did understand what that meant).

 

[dogghr]

On my plots I use a mix of WW and WR with the mixes. I find the deer like one more than the other at specific times. So I give them both. Despite a winter mixed with warm and frigid cold, those plants stay green most the year. As always, I just let them grow to their terminus next summer giving fawning cover and weed control in the foodplot. With drought, plots were really late getting their act on, but thankfully we had a good hard and soft mast this year. Deer herd down but looking healthy.
I spend a lot of time cleaning up fallen trees. Partly the drought intermixed with monsoons, to disease to insects. Forests are making a huge transformation these days, partly from our mismanagement from years ago and partly in just typical changes in the evironment. Dead trees do open the canopy tho, and understory benefits. Will the mighty oaks go the way of the Chestnut? I see the trend. Change is constant.
Here is mix of brassica and WR mix. No tubors do to drought. Deer will miss those.

Alfalfa mix on left looks dead. But close examination shows just heavy browse to ground of clovers and the alfalfa. Right side is WR/WW mix of bunch of leftover seeds.

This brassica plot failed with drought so I late seeded with WR mix. Brassica did come on late but deer browsed it heavy. This is one of my first plots done with ATV and bedspring about 7 years ago. Tractor is nice but you don't have to have one. Bag spreader and some inguniuty will get you some good results. Do your soil tests, try to go no or minimal tillage, use easy to grow , cheap seed, and your will be amazed.

 

[Native Hunter]

My weak, pathetic hind end is going to stay inside today as well. I'm not sick, but I can't afford to get sick due to some important work things I have coming up soon. Got to teach a 4 hour class on Tuesday and really no one else to do it if I end up with the flu.

Your snow looks about like ours, and its colder than a witch's bosom here today.........

Enjoy your day inside, and I will try to do the same, but Heaven help the first coyote that runs by my kitchen window.....

 

[dogghr]

Hunting season was a variety of weather. Hunted in shirtsleaves more than ever intermixed with temps in teens and wearing heavy wool. I'd rather have the bitter cold for the hunt. Love this coat as it is really warm wool outer and is dead quite on those late winter days when sound carries a mile. Plus a hand tube in rear pocket for sitting on stand in thin gloves. Rabbit fur hat, the bomb, but I wont wear it in regular rifle season as the yahoos would shoot my head thinking it were a deer. Gotta love them, make life interesting.

Deer will dig thru a few feet of snow to get the WR/clover mix year round. Been a dry year here for snow mainly, so not much an issue so far. Snow cover really protects the plants from the hard freezes that can happen.

For a variety of reasons, turkey poplulation has explode the last several years. Guess the predator population didn't do its job. Or maybe habitat gives them the safety they need. Or maybe predators don't cause the demise of populations as many would like to believe. Oh well, a discussion for another day.

Cracked me up how they alll came to alert at something. The whole group facing every direction to determine danger. Love my moving nature's insecticide flock.


Remember, everything is dependant on everything else in the habitat. You can have at least some affect by the choices you choose to make. Have a great day, and stay warm Peace.



“The mouse is a sober citizen who knows that the grass grows in order that mice may store it as underground haystacks, and that snow falls in order that mice may build subways from stack to stack…”
― Aldo Leopold

 

[Chainsaw]

I love how all those hills look and all the nooks and crannies they must be hiding. Do they create lots of swirling winds or are the winds predictable.

 

[dogghr]

I love how all those hills look and all the nooks and crannies they must be hiding. Do they create lots of swirling winds or are the winds predictable.

They do hide many a thing that can be traipsed over many times before realizing what you have ignored and amazed how such a thing was overlooked, whether it be a feature, or a pattern of game.
As I'm sure on your land, the winds are predictably unpredictable. Best wind for my south facing slopes is obviously from the NW. I have two ridges that run East-West and as in most areas, are the best routes that are followed by rutting bucks scent checking large number of acres with minimal effort. It is the main of these 2 ridges, that most of our 4+ yo are encountered during hunting season. Besides being high and difficult to access, they can bed just off the south side and watch below while scent checking behind. Basic deer hunting I know.
What makes it interesting, and frustrating, is that the wind, depending on speed will flow over the ridge top and curl back into the slope. Thus a NW wind can give a steady SE wind at stand. Likewise, a SE wind can roll up the slope and slide back down and give a NW breeze at stand. And etc. Not a big problem if you place your stands accordingly and that knowledge comes from just time spent on the property. Different winds give different directions at different speeds. I think that is why deer/bucks typically bed early, then move again late morning, scent checking, but also repositioning themselves as the wind/temperature changes.
Hunting ravines on my place is usually a waste of time, even tho I attempt it at times. The exception being late season as I think the warming sun has less affect on the wind being variable and it has at least some predictability. Exactly why I can sometime in late season, shoot a buck in my Ravine plot. But it can just as well be a bust.
As with most deer hunters, the sooner they recognize the wind and a deers nose is the most determining factor of hunting success, the better they become.
Watching my dogs nose over the years, at the house and in the field, has taught me more of hunting than anything I've ever read or watched. I bet it is just amazing what different scents and analysis an animals nose processes.
Thanks everyone for reading.

 

[Chainsaw]

We can try. But because our sense of smell is so very weak we just can't imagine what they sense. Hunting on the shore of lake Ontario is a piece of cake. It is incredible how true the winds blow. However we are five miles inland and there the story is different. If I was buying land today I would be as close to the lake as possible. Good winds give us the advantage. Winds five miles inland make everything extra difficult.

 

[dgallow]

Waited until the big chill was overcome by SW warmth at 1 pm.....made it an afternoon of setting up and running fence.....at sunset the birds were still working manure piles just behind the herd. Many deer were in a 70d rested pasture for a mid afternoon feed.....probably some sheds to be found there....will take a quick look tomorrow when the herd is moved. Trails to destination were beat clean of snow.....maybe got 2.5" snow....and this part of the world ain't prepared to handle that....hwy wasn't clear!

 

[dogghr]

Waited until the big chill was overcome by SW warmth at 1 pm.....made it an afternoon of setting up and running fence.....at sunset the birds were still working manure piles just behind the herd. Many deer were in a 70d rested pasture for a mid afternoon feed.....probably some sheds to be found there....will take a quick look tomorrow when the herd is moved. Trails to destination were beat clean of snow.....maybe got 2.5" snow....and this part of the world ain't prepared to handle that....hwy wasn't clear!

Smart to wait for that mid day warm up. Even deer know to do that now. Bucks still have their racks here and haven't seen one without yet. Perhaps with coming weeks. Minus 5 with wind chill -20 this morn so I imagine they are hunkered down. I think it will be harder to find sheds this year with hard mast scattered.
Will you have to feed hay to cattle since you are overwintering more head this year? Guy down the road has done well with his 100 head. I have watched them feed on his corn harvested field replanted in brassica , rye, wheat, and who knows what else fields this fall. I imagine he will be throwing out the hay beginning this week. Pretty much the standard for this area. He's redoing the century+ old farm house and I'm envious.

 

[Merle Hawggard]

Wonderful thread, went through the whole thing this morning. West Va is quite the place, absolutely beautiful!

 

[dogghr]

Wonderful thread, went through the whole thing this morning. West Va is quite the place, absolutely beautiful!

Thanks Merle. Just the ramblings of a mad man. I always keep up with your great thread also.

 

[lakngolf]

Wow, you have some cold temps there in WV, but the ice and snow make the landscape even more beautiful. Enjoy your posts and pictures. Good numbers on all your wildlife, as Billy Currington would say "must be doing something right"

 

[dgallow]

Smart to wait for that mid day warm up. Even deer know to do that now. Bucks still have their racks here and haven't seen one without yet. Perhaps with coming weeks. Minus 5 with wind chill -20 this morn so I imagine they are hunkered down. I think it will be harder to find sheds this year with hard mast scattered.
Will you have to feed hay to cattle since you are overwintering more head this year? Guy down the road has done well with his 100 head. I have watched them feed on his corn harvested field replanted in brassica , rye, wheat, and who knows what else fields this fall. I imagine he will be throwing out the hay beginning this week. Pretty much the standard for this area. He's redoing the century+ old farm house and I'm envious.

With the cold temps it is a good idea to make sure cattle stay full and have thermal cover, but a good cow can rough it through winter and still be a profitable cow on a low feed bill.....most feeding is based on our ideal rather than what the cow really needs or on the notion of what the neighbors will think if we ain't feeding much hay like they do....the truth lies in the cow and her ability to maintain condition and rebreed inside 90 d post partum for 1 calf per year.

Ran 52 mature head last year and running 42 head right now with calving rate at 82.9% per cow exposed....on 140 ac open land. That is average calving rate for OK. It would be pretty easy to improve that in this herd just by rail-roading the bottom 20% of cows....but owner don't have a strict culling protocol so the same poor doers just keep doing poor!.

Owner started feeding these cows mid-December as he needs to keep the rust knocked off the new grinder mixer and keep fresh fuel running through the 166 HP tractor. He also has wet fall calving cows mixed in with the dry spring cows....so nutritional requirements are the highest at the leanest time of year for half the herd. His winter feeding is based upon calendar and he never looks at available forage and fill on the cows before deciding to feed...makes sense don't it? He is more in tune with keeping condition on these cows this year rather than let them slide like last year which is nice that he is spending more time with them. But here is the factual observation...Last winter he ran short on time getting over here and cows maybe only got fed twice a week.....but he had a very short breeding window last winter and calving season this fall.....like 42 d calving season and above 90% calving rate on the fall cows...so cattle handled having to 'rough it' and still remained productive and that is with 015 calves left on the cow until 11-12 months old! But never have I ever heard him mention that....that being he didn't feed them like he felt he should and they actually did very well looking at the annual cycle of body condition, calving rate, length of weaning and calving season length...it is like those metrics never register!

Some of my paddocks are going to run short on a 7 d graze and need hay from d 5-7....on other paddocks cows don't have the incentive to put pressure on the stockpile because of too much feeding.....on others cattle just need the right supplement to help with use of brown stockpile when green is limiting. The paddocks which run short are going to be knocked back hard and I will use that opportunity to bring in a second canopy of adapted natives from latent seed bank, some switchgrass, fescue and some johnsongrass seed with longer recovery time.....plus that is where I'm suppressing brush and doing some TSI to increase forage diversity and tonnage. For the paddocks which don't get hit hard enough, the best thing to do is split them in half to fourths with more hotwire which will increase animal density and animal impact. That is just part of the tweaking you learn under this style of grazing....then when you look at the landscape it's easier to figure out why you run short or long.

He is supposed to be moving a good portion of this herd out this month.....but I have heard that about every month since Feb 2016 so become quite insensitive to what he says anymore....so when I drive up one day and there are fewer head then I will make the necessary changes in grazing. Take this weekend for example, he called me Sat and asked about moving the cows and said he didn't have time (hell they could have stayed where they were until Thursday based on what I observed).....I said, I've put up a temp lane all the way to the far side and will help you sort out 4 weanlings that don't want to stay weaned behind a hot wire and we can move the herd Sun afternoon. So I get all that set up and do the last minute gate openings while he waits at his headquarters at 12:45. He comes over and I count all the head as they follow him to the lot.....then help him sort out the 4 knotheads while the cows eat supplement.....then follow the herd down the lane keeping the lagging babies pushed up to the cows......then put the gate for that paddock up while he gives them more supplement...the whole process started at 1 and we were done at 2 pm with plenty time for his dinner engagement. He stops while I'm putting up the gate and I tell him the grazing plan for the next month....then he mentions he wants to sort off the dry cows and move them somewhere else. I didn't say a damned word!....this kinda crap is what has frustrated me for the last several years.....so I am ready to be done with custom herds! Would rather have our own herd and take responsibility for our mistakes being 160 miles away and keep the timing of things in our favor...than have to deal with people who have no planning again! Spent the last couple hours of light running the saw and moving slash away from fire breaks....good way to relieve tension!