Broadcasting grains into clover

[bowhunter14]

The trick is to throw it down when it’s thin and stressed in Aug. Or Nov when it’s thinning again.


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So you throw wheat or rye in August in the middle of the heat and no rain? Honest question. Cause I would love to incorporate grains into my clover plot and just trying to figure out the best way

 

[MarkDarvin]

Instead of starting a new thread I figured I would ask here. I let winter rye mature in my clover fields last year in hopes that it would reseed itself, but the deer ate all the tops. I ran out of winter rye and wheat during fall planting and never got around to getting more.

I just picked up 300 pounds of barley for 1.5 acres of clover. My plan was to frost seed it around the 15th of this month. But the extended forecast doesn’t look like frost seeding will happen. Do I wait to see if temperatures drop again, which I’m sure they will, so I get the freezing thawing effect to suck the seed in. Or do I broadcast it when I get the chance.

I'd let'er rip on Friday at the latest. You're already hitting germination temps. I had broadcast mine as soon as the low stayed above 20, and even had some days of 10 come back around and it never killed it. You don't wanna be late throwing onto established clover. That is a narrow window to get up and stay above the clover to nab sunlight.

If it's too cold, that barley will just lay there and safely hibernate (as long as the birds don't gobble it up) until the conditions are right for it to go.

 

[MarkDarvin]

So you throw wheat or rye in August in the middle of the heat and no rain? Honest question. Cause I would love to incorporate grains into my clover plot and just trying to figure out the best way

That's almost exactly when I do it. Last year, I went through the worst drought my county ever recorded. I think it helped buy my cereals time to get up when the rains returned and the clover recovered.

I time my mowing/reseeding to be 8 weeks before first frost. That happens to be about 3 weeks after the hottest day of the year (statistically). I'd love it if the calendars lined up so I could spread winter wheat into my clover and then scalp (mow) it to within an inch of the dirt on the hottest day of the year. Clover seems to do better the more you abuse it.

 

[KSQ2]

I agree, we were in a the middle of a major dry spell last September, that will soon turn into a real drought if we don't get some substantial rain soon, but I digress. We pretty much just did a throw instead of throw and mow on some of the plots, there wasn't anything to mow, everything was dormant. When we did get some rain in middle to late October our cereals took off. I broadcast more clover, chicory, and radishes each fall with the cereals. This year we added hairy vetch as well, it will be interesting to see if any of it is represented in a month or so.

 

[bowhunter14]

That's almost exactly when I do it. Last year, I went through the worst drought my county ever recorded. I think it helped buy my cereals time to get up when the rains returned and the clover recovered.

I time my mowing/reseeding to be 8 weeks before first frost. That happens to be about 3 weeks after the hottest day of the year (statistically). I'd love it if the calendars lined up so I could spread winter wheat into my clover and then scalp (mow) it to within an inch of the dirt on the hottest day of the year. Clover seems to do better the more you abuse it.

What rate do you broadcast Rye and wheat under those conditions? I would imagine it would have to be heavy with the amount of seed loss due to animals and such?

 

[MarkDarvin]

What rate do you broadcast Rye and wheat under those conditions? I would imagine it would have to be heavy with the amount of seed loss due to animals and such?

It depends on what I'm broadcasting into.

*Bare frozen ground spring seeding barley onto clover - 4 bushels/ac spring forage barley
*Clover only in August - 4 bushels/ac WW or WR only
*Clover with totally done rye or wheat in August - 2 bushels/ac WW or WR, 1 bushel some kind of spring cereal (oats/barley/spring wheat).

At 4 bushels I am allowing for some loss due to predation, or seeds getting hung up high and smashed by the mower blades. What's neat is, it seems with the big rye standing up in my clover/alfalfa, the cereals I threw in this last time went right down to the dirt, instead of getting hung up in clover spaghetti 5" above the soil.

If I've got the full stand of rye/wheat to throw and mow into, I don't plan for any loss or poor germination whatsoever. I like that two bushel rate because it seems to yield a full stand in the spring, but also leaves room for a third bushel of a spring cereal to go further than the winters. I haven't done it yet, but I'm using spring barley for my third bushel in everything this fall. That is gonna be the game changer. The spring wheat worked, but barley can do the same thing without the awns.

 

[KSQ2]

What rate do you broadcast Rye and wheat under those conditions? I would imagine it would have to be heavy with the amount of seed loss due to animals and such?

I'm pretty sure we broadcasted close to 175 lbs to the acre -- 75 wheat, 75 rye, and 25 oats. I'm pretty much done with oats, for us personally, they don't add enough to the mixture to be worth the hassle of broadcasting when we're not using the 3 point. We will increase the amount of wheat and rye we throw next year a little. Ours sat on the ground long time last fall awaiting rain, I'm sure doves, mice, and others took a toll, but we still had a great stand. Some of the folks on here will broadcast multiple times in smaller amounts in adverse conditions, but that's not feasible for us right now, so we seed heavy.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I'm pretty sure we broadcasted close to 175 lbs to the acre -- 75 wheat, 75 rye, and 25 oats. I'm pretty much done with oats, for us personally, they don't add enough to the mixture to be worth the hassle of broadcasting when we're not using the 3 point. We will increase the amount of wheat and rye we throw next year a little. Ours sat on the ground long time last fall awaiting rain, I'm sure doves, mice, and others took a toll, but we still had a great stand. Some of the folks on here will broadcast multiple times in smaller amounts in adverse conditions, but that's not feasible for us right now, so we seed heavy.

This thread is making me anxious for spring. I converted two of my plots to WW after they were rye the last few building year(s). This will be the biggest crop of WW I've had to date and I can't wait to see it. Been doing a lot of digging the past few years and each year now I will have new plots coming online as I get that subsoil up and functioning like topsoil.

 

[jlane35]

I'd let'er rip on Friday at the latest. You're already hitting germination temps. I had broadcast mine as soon as the low stayed above 20, and even had some days of 10 come back around and it never killed it. You don't wanna be late throwing onto established clover. That is a narrow window to get up and stay above the clover to nab sunlight.

If it's too cold, that barley will just lay there and safely hibernate (as long as the birds don't gobble it up) until the conditions are right for it to go.

Perfect. I’ll be broadcasting it as soon as possible. But I’ll make sure I order enough in the fall to fall plant all of my grains. Unless there is an advantage to spring planting?

 

[dogghr]

So you throw wheat or rye in August in the middle of the heat and no rain? Honest question. Cause I would love to incorporate grains into my clover plot and just trying to figure out the best way

Yes I will try to catch a rain if possible but otherwise will throw late Aug thru early Sept or if not then I will throw in Nov and it will grow as crop is browsed or is frost burned down. I plant grains the same way with my brassica at their planting late July / early Aug, or overseeding self seeding brassica plots after leaves are browsed by early Nov.
I would think Missouri would be a couple weeks later than my plantings.

 

[Mennoniteman]

When broadcasting small grains into clover in the conditions that you guys are describing, if it's existing clover in late summer that has some thatch, the seed germination can be increased by close to double if the plot is dragged with something like this one from tractor supply I have pictured below. Last fall on Labor day we experimented by broadcasting 200 lbs of rye on a 1 acre plot of 10" high ladino clover, then mowing it at mid-height with a Ventrac tractor with a mower deck on the front, and pulling this drag on the back. The germination rate seemed to be pretty close to a no-till drill and this T&M mow and drag was able to be completed by one pass with the Ventrac.

 

[MarkDarvin]

When broadcasting small grains into clover in the conditions that you guys are describing, if it's existing clover in late summer that has some thatch, the seed germination can be increased by close to double if the plot is dragged with something like this one from tractor supply I have pictured below. Last fall on Labor day we experimented by broadcasting 200 lbs of rye on a 1 acre plot of 10" high ladino clover, then mowing it at mid-height with a Ventrac tractor with a mower deck on the front, and pulling this drag on the back. The germination rate seemed to be pretty close to a no-till drill and this T&M mow and drag was able to be completed by one pass with the Ventrac.
View attachment 23417

I've got one of those in my arsenal. Did you drag it teeth down, or teeth up? Any issue with residue clogging or piling up?

 

[bowhunter14]

@Mennoniteman I have a drag harrow so thank you for this tip. Last year my clover was hit hard by lack of rain so about labor day I top seeded and hit it with a shot of fertilizer then drug it all and it rebonded with my best clover plot yet. So hopefully this year I'll do the same but add rye and wheat into the mix

 

[jlane35]

I checked my barley seed I broadcasted a week or so ago. Does it still have a shot of growing? We have had plenty of warm weather and moisture. Or do you think it will be a failure?

 

[MarkDarvin]

I checked my barley seed I broadcasted a week or so ago. Does it still have a shot of growing? We have had plenty of warm weather and moisture. Or do you think it will be a failure?

Just wait. It’s coming.


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[Mennoniteman]

I've got one of those in my arsenal. Did you drag it teeth down, or teeth up? Any issue with residue clogging or piling up?

I drag it teeth down. In the scenario that I described, broadcasting 200 lb grain per acre into a thick stand of ladino at the end of summer, then mowing and dragging right away, there isn't much dry hard residue such as straw and fodder there that would clog a drag or harrow, but there's usually a layer of old, mostly rotted residue, which doesn't present much of a clogging issue, and the drag works as an extra level of insurance to get seed to soil contact by scratching the old residue on the soil surface and shaking the grain seeds down underneath everything else.

 

[Kurt]

Got one of those on my list of things to buy. Think you pushed me over the edge lol.