yoderjac
Well-Known Member
INTRO BACKGROUND: (Feel free to ignore this section. It just shows how I got where I am over the last 50 years.)
During most of my bowhunting career, I used compound bows. I started with a Bear Whitetail Hunter II. I had no idea what I was doing when I bought it. I did not use a pro shop and I could not hit the broad side of a barn beyond about 15 yards. Never got close enough to a deer to even get a shot. I knew nothing about bowhunting and only got the bow to extend my hunting season. When I moved to Virginia in the DC metro area, things changed. There was very little firearm hunting without a long drive. I found out that I could bowhunt at Fort Belvoir. I ended up joining an archery club there and learned a lot. Another important step was taking the International Bowhunter Education Class (IBEP) which was required to hunt at Fort Belvoir. It was a great class that include blood trailing and 3D walk-thru exercises.
I now knew enough to use a pro shop not a big box store and found out that bow fit was much more important than anything else a bow had to offer. I ended up going to the local pro shop and buying a used bow. I can't even remember the brand. The shop owner took plenty of time to work with me and get it set up to fit me. Suddenly, I was shooting pretty well. I never shot a deer with that bow, simply because I never had an opportunity when I did not get made by deer. I was just beginning to understand the importance of scent control.
By this time, I had learned the basics of setting up a bow. I ended up buying a Mountaineer bow. It was one of the first with 80% letoff. My shooting improved dramatically. With better scent control, I began harvesting deer, a couple each year. During this period, I also found another military facility near by that did allow shotgun (slug) hunting, Quantico MCB. I began working there as a conservation volunteer. This gave me a great opportunity to learn the base outside the season. I began harvesting deer there as well with both bow and shotgun.
I had become fairly proficient with a compound, or so I thought. The suburbs were having big issues with an overpopulation of deer, but there were few if any places where you could use firearms in Fairfax County. Most all of the land was privately held by homeowners. Developers developed the ridges and donated the stream valleys back to the county as parks where no hunting was permitted. Homeowners were having terrible issues with landscape damage from deer as well as deer/car collisions, but they had no concept of bowhunting and were concerned about liability, so most did not allow hunting.
I got together with several experienced bowhunters and we formed Suburban Whitetail Management of Northern Virginia. This volunteer organization, connected homeowners with deer damage with highly experienced bowhunters. To overcome the homeowner fear, we got liability insurance, ran bowhunters through extensive training and qualifications, and worked with the game department to obtain kill permits for out of season hunting. There was a high threshold for experience to hunt for the organization, because some lots we hunted on were 10 acres or less with sensitive neighbors. It was important that high probability kill shots were taken and every deer retrieved. We even provided tracking support to the bowhunters to help find deer, and a less than stellar recovery record was cause for suspension. Because one of our training requirement was the IBEP class, our members were putting a heavy load on the local classes held at Fort Belvoir, so several of us got certified as IBEP instructors and began to teach.
One of the other founders of this organization was an outstanding bowhunter, but also a state champion target shooter. She shot a Martin Scepter and was an outstanding bow mechanic with it. He knew it inside out. He was kind enough to take me under his wing and teach me bow mechanics. So, of course, I bought a Martin Scepter. My shooting improved even further. I started building my own arrows and even bowstrings. This guy was a great resource and teacher. I killed many, many does each year with that Martin Scepter.
I loved it and never intended to buy another bow. Then I made a HUGE mistake. One day, I was killing time waiting to attend a meeting and there was an archery shop nearby. It was a Mathews dealer. They had an indoor archery range, so I took my Scepter in to shoot. At some point the owner ask me if I'd like to try shooting one of the Mathews bows. I told him I was not interested in buying a bow, and did not want him to waste his time setting one up for me. He was persistent. So I told him that if he wanted to set it up, I'd take a couple shots. Needless to say, after the first shot, the bow was sold. I left that shop with a new Mathews Switchback.
Things changed dramatically. Using my previous bows, string jumping was always a potential issue. Sometimes they would and other times they wouldn't jump the string. It was always a gamble. The switchback changed that. Mathews focus on quieting the bow was key. I never had a bow jump the string using that Switchback, and I shot a lot of deer with it.
Over time, basketball, and my other athletic sports caught up with me and my rotator cuff got to the point where hunting with a compound became difficult. I could still shoot it at the range with no problem, but in cold weather, I'd stiffen up, and could no longer draw. I ended up having to pass several deer simply because I could not draw it. A few years earlier, they legalized crossbows in VA. By then, I had become a general Hunter Education instructor as well, and as part of the recurring training for that, several crossbow companies brought there crossbows in and we had training on them. We got to shoot multiple crossbows as well as having the safety training. The one I liked the best was a local VA company called Parker. I figured if I was going to train on crossbows in my Hunter Ed classes, I better shot at least a couple deer with one, so I had done that back then. At this point, with my shoulder, I began using the Switchback early in the season when it was warm, and then switching to the Parker mid-season. I used as much silencing accessories as practical, but string jumping still occurred with it.
Eventually, Parker went out of business. I was on my second Parker crossbow by that time. Knowing I could not get parts in the future, I started looking for a new crossbow. I found that Mission Crossbows were a spin-off of Mathews. Given Mathews focus on quieting there bows, I decided to go this route. I ended up buying a Mission Sub One Lite. There is a picture on this thread: Pic of Sub-One with Oracle X
Any string jumping issues disappeared when I got this bow. I like to play with technology, so one of the mods I made to the package was eventually replacing the red-dot scope with and Oracle X. A thread that includes an update on the Oracle X
THE ISSUE: (Start reading Here)
I killed lots of deer from treestands with the Sub One Lite. As I'm getting older, I'm limited to ladder stands, and I'm relying more and more on box blinds. They have presented a new issue with my crossbow. Because of the large distance between the scope and the riser on a crossbow, it can be difficult to get a clear site picture and be sure you don't hit the window seal. In fact, I've had several issues with the arrow nicking the window seal.
I tried building a device that I could fold forward under the riser to rest on the seal. It worked ok. Then I found out that Mission sells a stirrup for the Sub One Lite. Normally, you step on the riser to cock the bow. They did this so shorter folks can cock it and it does make the overall length shorter. I purchased one and installed it last season. I did not have any shot opportunities I liked with my crossbow last season, so this season is the first use.
I have now harvested 2 does with it. Both sort of jumped the string. Unlike a classic string jump where the entry wound is high or the arrow goes over the deer's back, both entry wounds were exactly where I aimed. Both shots looked good, Neither deer left a blood trail, and I was lucky to find both.
My post mortem showed the same thing on both. They both jumped the string as the arrow entered. In both cases the exit wound was significantly higher than the entry wound. In fact, on one deer the arrow was still in the deer when I found it, and during butchering today, I found the exit hit the very top of the far shoulder. The entry wound was in the lower third.
THEORY:
I'm thinking that the stirrup against the wooden window seal is causing a delayed noise that occurs after the arrow has left the bow. The in-flight trajectory is not affected and the deer is beginning the string jump just as the arrow is entering the body.
SOLUTIONS:
My next posts will include potential solutions with pictures. My first one will be to modify some kind of Limbsaver device modified to fit on the stirrup so that there is a rubberish stand-off between the stirrup and the window seal.
During most of my bowhunting career, I used compound bows. I started with a Bear Whitetail Hunter II. I had no idea what I was doing when I bought it. I did not use a pro shop and I could not hit the broad side of a barn beyond about 15 yards. Never got close enough to a deer to even get a shot. I knew nothing about bowhunting and only got the bow to extend my hunting season. When I moved to Virginia in the DC metro area, things changed. There was very little firearm hunting without a long drive. I found out that I could bowhunt at Fort Belvoir. I ended up joining an archery club there and learned a lot. Another important step was taking the International Bowhunter Education Class (IBEP) which was required to hunt at Fort Belvoir. It was a great class that include blood trailing and 3D walk-thru exercises.
I now knew enough to use a pro shop not a big box store and found out that bow fit was much more important than anything else a bow had to offer. I ended up going to the local pro shop and buying a used bow. I can't even remember the brand. The shop owner took plenty of time to work with me and get it set up to fit me. Suddenly, I was shooting pretty well. I never shot a deer with that bow, simply because I never had an opportunity when I did not get made by deer. I was just beginning to understand the importance of scent control.
By this time, I had learned the basics of setting up a bow. I ended up buying a Mountaineer bow. It was one of the first with 80% letoff. My shooting improved dramatically. With better scent control, I began harvesting deer, a couple each year. During this period, I also found another military facility near by that did allow shotgun (slug) hunting, Quantico MCB. I began working there as a conservation volunteer. This gave me a great opportunity to learn the base outside the season. I began harvesting deer there as well with both bow and shotgun.
I had become fairly proficient with a compound, or so I thought. The suburbs were having big issues with an overpopulation of deer, but there were few if any places where you could use firearms in Fairfax County. Most all of the land was privately held by homeowners. Developers developed the ridges and donated the stream valleys back to the county as parks where no hunting was permitted. Homeowners were having terrible issues with landscape damage from deer as well as deer/car collisions, but they had no concept of bowhunting and were concerned about liability, so most did not allow hunting.
I got together with several experienced bowhunters and we formed Suburban Whitetail Management of Northern Virginia. This volunteer organization, connected homeowners with deer damage with highly experienced bowhunters. To overcome the homeowner fear, we got liability insurance, ran bowhunters through extensive training and qualifications, and worked with the game department to obtain kill permits for out of season hunting. There was a high threshold for experience to hunt for the organization, because some lots we hunted on were 10 acres or less with sensitive neighbors. It was important that high probability kill shots were taken and every deer retrieved. We even provided tracking support to the bowhunters to help find deer, and a less than stellar recovery record was cause for suspension. Because one of our training requirement was the IBEP class, our members were putting a heavy load on the local classes held at Fort Belvoir, so several of us got certified as IBEP instructors and began to teach.
One of the other founders of this organization was an outstanding bowhunter, but also a state champion target shooter. She shot a Martin Scepter and was an outstanding bow mechanic with it. He knew it inside out. He was kind enough to take me under his wing and teach me bow mechanics. So, of course, I bought a Martin Scepter. My shooting improved even further. I started building my own arrows and even bowstrings. This guy was a great resource and teacher. I killed many, many does each year with that Martin Scepter.
I loved it and never intended to buy another bow. Then I made a HUGE mistake. One day, I was killing time waiting to attend a meeting and there was an archery shop nearby. It was a Mathews dealer. They had an indoor archery range, so I took my Scepter in to shoot. At some point the owner ask me if I'd like to try shooting one of the Mathews bows. I told him I was not interested in buying a bow, and did not want him to waste his time setting one up for me. He was persistent. So I told him that if he wanted to set it up, I'd take a couple shots. Needless to say, after the first shot, the bow was sold. I left that shop with a new Mathews Switchback.
Things changed dramatically. Using my previous bows, string jumping was always a potential issue. Sometimes they would and other times they wouldn't jump the string. It was always a gamble. The switchback changed that. Mathews focus on quieting the bow was key. I never had a bow jump the string using that Switchback, and I shot a lot of deer with it.
Over time, basketball, and my other athletic sports caught up with me and my rotator cuff got to the point where hunting with a compound became difficult. I could still shoot it at the range with no problem, but in cold weather, I'd stiffen up, and could no longer draw. I ended up having to pass several deer simply because I could not draw it. A few years earlier, they legalized crossbows in VA. By then, I had become a general Hunter Education instructor as well, and as part of the recurring training for that, several crossbow companies brought there crossbows in and we had training on them. We got to shoot multiple crossbows as well as having the safety training. The one I liked the best was a local VA company called Parker. I figured if I was going to train on crossbows in my Hunter Ed classes, I better shot at least a couple deer with one, so I had done that back then. At this point, with my shoulder, I began using the Switchback early in the season when it was warm, and then switching to the Parker mid-season. I used as much silencing accessories as practical, but string jumping still occurred with it.
Eventually, Parker went out of business. I was on my second Parker crossbow by that time. Knowing I could not get parts in the future, I started looking for a new crossbow. I found that Mission Crossbows were a spin-off of Mathews. Given Mathews focus on quieting there bows, I decided to go this route. I ended up buying a Mission Sub One Lite. There is a picture on this thread: Pic of Sub-One with Oracle X
Any string jumping issues disappeared when I got this bow. I like to play with technology, so one of the mods I made to the package was eventually replacing the red-dot scope with and Oracle X. A thread that includes an update on the Oracle X
THE ISSUE: (Start reading Here)
I killed lots of deer from treestands with the Sub One Lite. As I'm getting older, I'm limited to ladder stands, and I'm relying more and more on box blinds. They have presented a new issue with my crossbow. Because of the large distance between the scope and the riser on a crossbow, it can be difficult to get a clear site picture and be sure you don't hit the window seal. In fact, I've had several issues with the arrow nicking the window seal.
I tried building a device that I could fold forward under the riser to rest on the seal. It worked ok. Then I found out that Mission sells a stirrup for the Sub One Lite. Normally, you step on the riser to cock the bow. They did this so shorter folks can cock it and it does make the overall length shorter. I purchased one and installed it last season. I did not have any shot opportunities I liked with my crossbow last season, so this season is the first use.
I have now harvested 2 does with it. Both sort of jumped the string. Unlike a classic string jump where the entry wound is high or the arrow goes over the deer's back, both entry wounds were exactly where I aimed. Both shots looked good, Neither deer left a blood trail, and I was lucky to find both.
My post mortem showed the same thing on both. They both jumped the string as the arrow entered. In both cases the exit wound was significantly higher than the entry wound. In fact, on one deer the arrow was still in the deer when I found it, and during butchering today, I found the exit hit the very top of the far shoulder. The entry wound was in the lower third.
THEORY:
I'm thinking that the stirrup against the wooden window seal is causing a delayed noise that occurs after the arrow has left the bow. The in-flight trajectory is not affected and the deer is beginning the string jump just as the arrow is entering the body.
SOLUTIONS:
My next posts will include potential solutions with pictures. My first one will be to modify some kind of Limbsaver device modified to fit on the stirrup so that there is a rubberish stand-off between the stirrup and the window seal.
