A Soil Test

[Crimson n' Camo]

I am seeing a little recovery from the field despite the dry weather. I actually picked up 0.3 inches yesterday but I need more than that to really get the ground good and wet. These little ragweed shoots that are beginning to emerge now is exactly what I was trying to produce. These are actually shooting off of a mature stalk that I “trampled”. The tender new shoots will soon offer the deer something palatable at a time when all of the other ragweed is going to seed.

 

[rlb165]

Interesting article in my Facebook feed this morning:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life....html?tid=ss_fb-bottom&utm_term=.25fdc56628f5

 

[Lewi B]

Excellent article.
Thanks for posting the link.
Really reinforces what no till is all about.
It's definitely hard to explain the concepts involved in the whole cycle of growing soil.
Have begun to answer the question. ......"What are you growing" with the word....... soil. Then you get the deer in the headlights look.
If the person really wants to know I will explain but have learned the attention span is short.
Good Morning
Time for another cup.

 

[FarmerD]

I know most of us have bush hogs, but, Crimson n' Camo, seems if one could find a sickle bar mower, cheap, and had lots of acres to do, it might perform even better than a bush hog? See any problems with that?

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[Crimson n' Camo]

That sure looks like a lot more even distribution of thatch with the sickle bar. It can be kinda tough sometimes to keep a bush hog from wind rowing on you.

 

[IkemanTx]

I know most of us have bush hogs, but, Crimson n' Camo, seems if one could find a sickle bar mower, cheap, and had lots of acres to do, it might perform even better than a bush hog? See any problems with that?

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I have been wondering if a flail mower would do better as well...


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[FarmerD]

I think it would! I've used all 3 and as Crimson said, the bush hog, can leave a windrow, where the others don't (as much). The only benefit of the bush hog, is it's probably the least expensive option with lots less moving parts..

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[MarkDarvin]

I don't have any big tools yet, but when the day comes, absolutely I will get a flail mower. No questions asked. When you're laying down mature rye, this has got to be the best way to spread it evenly.

 

[Turkish]

CnC, you mentioned "dragging in" your fall crop. Do you not plan to mow?

Also you mentioned your rye being too heavy and suppressing regrowth. Can you only combat this with a lower seeding rate or what?

What would you do differently if you wanted to promote dove usage, for a dove shoot, in late summer? It seems to me that that may be difficult to align with your strategy. Supplement the summer weed crop with a dove friendly crop, rather than native weeds only? Disk a portion, dare I say?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

CnC, you mentioned "dragging in" your fall crop. Do you not plan to mow?

Also you mentioned your rye being too heavy and suppressing regrowth. Can you only combat this with a lower seeding rate or what?

What would you do differently if you wanted to promote dove usage, for a dove shoot, in late summer? It seems to me that that may be difficult to align with your strategy. Supplement the summer weed crop with a dove friendly crop, rather than native weeds only? Disk a portion, dare I say?

I wasn’t gonna have enough biomass still standing to do a true throw n mow after doing that simulated mob grazing experiment. It’s so late in the summer now that I’m only about 4 weeks away from planting so I went ahead and mowed down the rest of the standing vegetation to let it be breaking down a little. I can broadcast my seed in the decomposed hay at planting time and just drag it in now. There’s lots of different ways to skin a cat with this stuff…..as long as you’re accomplishing the same principles of building and conserving soil OM.

On the rye being too heavy.....I'm fine with that. I'm not gonna complain about producing a bunch of organic matter....I'll just adapt my technique to speed up decomposition a little....I'll probably rotate from rye next spring, to whatever I decide to do during summer with another simulated "mob grazing" approach....or I may just let it keep standing and fall on its own. We'll see,,...I should have a lot more clover in the mix this next year. I didn't seed any clover last year due to the extreme drought we were in at the time.

As far as doves....I suppose you could plant some millet in the summer. Mow it before you shoot.....then come back and drag in some cereal grains and clover.

 

[rlb165]

This year I planted stuff for doves for the first time.
I sprayed glyphosate in weedy areas, waited a few days, and broadcast seed. I didn't mow or roll. No fertilizer or lime.
Japanese millet and buckwheat did Great. Brown top millet did pretty well. Several different kinds of weeds are thriving. Sunflower seed and random bird seed mixes didn't germinate at all. Deer are browsing the weeds, and turkey hens with their poults are spending a lot of time in these areas. .

Crimson n' Camo, based on these pics, would you recommend mowing and/or discing to make these areas more attractive to doves?
As I said, this is my first attempt at doves. Now that I see how much deer and turkey are using these spots, I almost hate to do anything to them.




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[Crimson n' Camo]

You could do it either way but doves prefer a little dirt. I’d probably do something similar to the simulated mob grazing….just pull a disk across it enough to cut it, lay it down, and maybe kick up just a little dirt here and there. If you need it ready to dove hunt sooner than you plant then just come back later on and drag your seed into the duff with a chainlink fence or something similar. You could spray it after you laid it down if you think it needs it.

 

[rlb165]

That sounds like a plan. I'll mob graze a small area and see how doves respond. There's a power line that doves roost on over most of these spots, so I'm hoping they notice any little improvements I make.
Thank you Crimson n' Camo.

 

[cutman]

Spray it then burn it if you want doves. Then disk it to bring up bare dirt. Doves LOVE fire.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Here’s one thing I probably need to address about this whole method. All my testing with it has been in really sandy fields. Sand has different properties than other soil types that really suck in some ways, but traits that also allows me to be able to do some things that other folks might not be able to as easily. One of the traits about sand that really helps me out is that the surface doesn’t really crust over….it stays soft even if some soil is exposed….especially after the addition of all the OM. You guys who have soil with more clay in it may find that your soil crusts over much more easily. This may mean that you need to tweak your approach a little in the beginning and may mean that you always need to. This doesn’t have to be an all or nothing approach….especially in the beginning. You don’t need to try and copy what anyone else is doing. You need to understand the principles and then use them to look at your field and assess what’s happening…..figure out the best way to attack the situation……and then determine if the management approach you’ve decided on is moving you forward or backwards.

 

[IkemanTx]

Just put in a small throw n mow plot (1/3 acre) today. Sprayed on Monday, and again yesterday. Then, I threw a almost all of a 50lb bag of Rye, Oats, WW, and a little radish, pea, and clover. I then mowed it down good, and then spread 200lbs of lime. Hopefully it turns out okay, but if not... I'm still growing some OM!

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[rlb165]

I believe I could change y’alls opinions of NWSG and deer if I could take you on a tour of a southern quail hunting plantation. The deer on some of those properties are thick as fleas on a dog’s back. You can literally walk around and jump them like rabbits out of the native grass understory. These places hold some of the highest deer populations in the whole state of Alabama. NWSG is a vital part of a well-rounded habitat plan. It offers the deer ideal cover. I assure you that it’s not a useless plant for deer.

Now, that being said……it may not be something that everyone wants to have growing in their food plots. I’m good with it though for the reasons I previously stated. I plan to transition to cereal grains in the fall anyways and they simply offer me a low maintenance grass component to my summer mix for soil building on my small acreage plot.

Yesterday I had a very interesting discussion with a biologist who works for a company close to me that specializes in native seeds. I had never met him before.
During the course of the conversation, he mentioned NWSG's. I told him about my experience with them, and how it looked like to me that deer avoided them. The expression on his face told me that he had heard what I was saying before. He asked when I'd planted mine, I told him around 2000.
As he explained it, wildlife biologists back then were fairly new to NWSG's, and were recommending a seeding rate for the taller NWSG's that was actually much too high. As a result, you end up with the tangled, worthless mess that I had.
He said nowadays, they recommend a more balanced blend of tall grasses, short grasses, forbs and wildflowers.
This way you have adequate cover for deer to feel secure, but it's not so thick as to be impassable. He said some of their customers are having pretty good luck with daytime deer movement by having food plots surrounded by areas of NWSG's.

Anyway, I wanted ya' to know that I don't hate NWSG's no more.

Top pic is from June, bottom pic was taken in early August.

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[Brian]

I wasn’t gonna have enough biomass still standing to do a true throw n mow after doing that simulated mob grazing experiment. It’s so late in the summer now that I’m only about 4 weeks away from planting so I went ahead and mowed down the rest of the standing vegetation to let it be breaking down a little. I can broadcast my seed in the decomposed hay at planting time and just drag it in now. There’s lots of different ways to skin a cat with this stuff…..as long as you’re accomplishing the same principles of building and conserving soil OM.

Crimson, can you elaborate on this? I was planning to try throw-n-mow in one of my fields but with all the rain this summer there was just too much biomass. I mowed yesterday to give the clippings a month to breakdown before I disc it in. But I gather your talking broadcast seed directly into the stubble. How are you getting seed to soil contact through the thatch?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Crimson, can you elaborate on this? I was planning to try throw-n-mow in one of my fields but with all the rain this summer there was just too much biomass. I mowed yesterday to give the clippings a month to breakdown before I disc it in. But I gather your talking broadcast seed directly into the stubble. How are you getting seed to soil contact through the thatch?

I went ahead and sprayed the field too a few weeks ago. I'm gonna mix a good bit of clover this year and I want my thatch to be pretty broken down by the time planting gets here so that "soil" is within easy reach but not completely bare. I'll just broadcast my larger seed into the remaining broken down hay mulch on the surface and mix it into the duff by dragging a long piece of chain link fence over the field. I'll then broadcast my clover seed over the top and let it rain into the duff. I'm at a pretty decomposed state now across much of the field except in just the thickest places. Most of the thatch is decomposed to point of getting crumbly but it's still sitting there in a whole form. When I drag across it, a lot of it will probably break down.

I'll start taking some more pics soon. I'm only a few weeks from planting.

 

[Brian]

I went ahead and sprayed the field too a few weeks ago. I'm gonna mix a good bit of clover this year and I want my thatch to be pretty broken down by the time planting gets here so that "soil" is within easy reach but not completely bare. I'll just broadcast my larger seed into the remaining broken down hay mulch on the surface and mix it into the duff by dragging a long piece of chain link fence over the field. I'll then broadcast my clover seed over the top and let it rain into the duff. I'm at a pretty decomposed state now across much of the field except in just the thickest places. Most of the thatch is decomposed to point of getting crumbly but it's still sitting there in a whole form. When I drag across it, a lot of it will probably break down.

I'll start taking some more pics soon. I'm only a few weeks from planting.

So this would be the mow-n-throw method?

It sounds like the trick is to plant when the thatch is sufficiently decomposed to allow seed to pass through to the dirt but still has enough substance to cover the seeds (in my area the turkey and other birds totally wipe out uncovered seed).

PLEASE post a report after you plant- I won't plant until mid-October and I'm thinking about trying the same thing! I mowed 2 weeks ago, plan to spray tomorrow and then plant in 4 weeks, so I'm pretty much working with the same time time frame as you (just a couple of weeks delayed.)