Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Any of the three covered so far should do well in damp ground. I haven't covered Bur Oak yet, but it is doing well in some damp ground as well.
The Year of The Oaks
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Any of the three covered so far should do well in damp ground. I haven't covered Bur Oak yet, but it is doing well in some damp ground as well.
KSQ2
Well-Known Member
It’s funny Native mentioned the bur oak. I’m assuming your ground is in the western third of the state. If so, I think the bur would be your go-to oak. We used to hunt a lot of ground out there and the only oaks I saw growing were near creeks and they were almost always bur oaks.
shedder
Active Member
"Workman PublishingENGLISH
4h 17m
RATINGS
(4)
by Douglas W. Tallamy
read by Adam Barr
The Rich Ecology of Our Most Essential Native Trees
With Bringing Nature Home, Doug Tallamy changed the conversation about gardening in America. His second book, the New York Times bestseller Nature's Best Hope, urged homeowners to take conservation into their own hands. Now, he is turning his advocacy to one of the most important species of the plant kingdom-the mighty oak tree. Oaks sustain a complex and fascinating web of wildlife. The Nature of Oaks reveals what is going on in oak trees month by month, highlighting the seasonal cycles of life, death, and renewal. From woodpeckers who collect and store hundreds of acorns for sustenance to the beauty of jewel caterpillars, Tallamy illuminates and celebrates the wonders that occur right in our own backyards. He also shares practical advice about how to plant and care for an oak, along with information about the best oak species for your area. The Nature of Oaks will inspire you to treasure these trees and to act to nurture and protect them."
The audio book version of the book the article is based on is free from hoopla. You need a library card and a download of the app from your library site. This works for many library systems.
I have heard some of it and it is very detailed. Much I didn't know like gall wasp ecologies in the April chapter. I have jumped around a lot but so far a lot of it has to do with oak roles in food webs. The stats on oak are impressive. A very important group of trees.
Deer are a focus of oaks here but this makes the point that oaks are the key tree group for everything in North America.
Well worth digging into for how much.
4h 17m
RATINGS
(4)
by Douglas W. Tallamy
read by Adam Barr
The Rich Ecology of Our Most Essential Native Trees
With Bringing Nature Home, Doug Tallamy changed the conversation about gardening in America. His second book, the New York Times bestseller Nature's Best Hope, urged homeowners to take conservation into their own hands. Now, he is turning his advocacy to one of the most important species of the plant kingdom-the mighty oak tree. Oaks sustain a complex and fascinating web of wildlife. The Nature of Oaks reveals what is going on in oak trees month by month, highlighting the seasonal cycles of life, death, and renewal. From woodpeckers who collect and store hundreds of acorns for sustenance to the beauty of jewel caterpillars, Tallamy illuminates and celebrates the wonders that occur right in our own backyards. He also shares practical advice about how to plant and care for an oak, along with information about the best oak species for your area. The Nature of Oaks will inspire you to treasure these trees and to act to nurture and protect them."
The audio book version of the book the article is based on is free from hoopla. You need a library card and a download of the app from your library site. This works for many library systems.
I have heard some of it and it is very detailed. Much I didn't know like gall wasp ecologies in the April chapter. I have jumped around a lot but so far a lot of it has to do with oak roles in food webs. The stats on oak are impressive. A very important group of trees.
Deer are a focus of oaks here but this makes the point that oaks are the key tree group for everything in North America.
Well worth digging into for how much.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Bur Oak - Quercus macrocarpa
Even though I didn’t order any Bur Oaks I ended up getting a few mixed in with the trees I bought. I’m really happy about this, since they are a great tree. I have only found about 15 – 20 of these in the planting, and they are doing just fine.
Facts about this oak:
· Habitats include moist bottomland, uplands, and it can be common in savannas.
· Bur Oak is most commonly found in bottomlands just a little outside of the flood zone.
· The tree is extremely easy to identify. See my notes below about the corky bark and unique leaves.
· This tree has the largest acorns of any oaks. They also have an unmistakable appearance because of the unusual fringe along the rim of their cups.
· Bur Oak is a member of the White Oak group, which means that its acorns mature in a single year.
· It can hybridize with other White Oaks.
Here is a USDA link on Bur Oak
Quercus macrocarpa (usda.gov)
Picture of Bur Oak Leaves and trunk close to ground
Picture of new leaves emerging on 4/10/21
Picture of the corky bark. This makes Bur Oak very easy to identify:
This is a nice sized one out in the middle of the planting in ground that is more hydric than average.
This is one at the edge of the planting next to the white pine road screen. This tree has kept up with the white pines. They were planted at the same time.
I don’t want to get you Oak Junkies too excited yet, but I will mention that I think I have found a Bur Oak Hybrid. I need to wait until the new leaves come out and do more research. I will report back later on this. Don’t lose any sleep, because I could be wrong…….
The Oak that we will go to next time is the Chinkapin Oak. Take care until we meet again...
Even though I didn’t order any Bur Oaks I ended up getting a few mixed in with the trees I bought. I’m really happy about this, since they are a great tree. I have only found about 15 – 20 of these in the planting, and they are doing just fine.
Facts about this oak:
· Habitats include moist bottomland, uplands, and it can be common in savannas.
· Bur Oak is most commonly found in bottomlands just a little outside of the flood zone.
· The tree is extremely easy to identify. See my notes below about the corky bark and unique leaves.
· This tree has the largest acorns of any oaks. They also have an unmistakable appearance because of the unusual fringe along the rim of their cups.
· Bur Oak is a member of the White Oak group, which means that its acorns mature in a single year.
· It can hybridize with other White Oaks.
Here is a USDA link on Bur Oak
Quercus macrocarpa (usda.gov)
Picture of Bur Oak Leaves and trunk close to ground
Picture of new leaves emerging on 4/10/21
Picture of the corky bark. This makes Bur Oak very easy to identify:
This is a nice sized one out in the middle of the planting in ground that is more hydric than average.
This is one at the edge of the planting next to the white pine road screen. This tree has kept up with the white pines. They were planted at the same time.
I don’t want to get you Oak Junkies too excited yet, but I will mention that I think I have found a Bur Oak Hybrid. I need to wait until the new leaves come out and do more research. I will report back later on this. Don’t lose any sleep, because I could be wrong…….
The Oak that we will go to next time is the Chinkapin Oak. Take care until we meet again...
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shedder
Active Member
https://www.indefenseofplants.com/podcast/2021/4/4/ep-311-how-oaks-get-around
FYI A neat hour long podcast on oak seed dispersal by mammals.
https://jhupbooks.press.jhu.edu/title/oak-seed-dispersal/table-of-contents
with the author of this 500 pg book.
FYI A neat hour long podcast on oak seed dispersal by mammals.
https://jhupbooks.press.jhu.edu/title/oak-seed-dispersal/table-of-contents
with the author of this 500 pg book.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
I have already identified about 4 or 5 trees that I believe to be hybrids. When the leaves come out I will start researching more and trying to make a determination. If you know of a good book or good Internet resource on hybrid identification, I'm going to need it, because that's something I've never studied before. I'm almost certain that I have found one Bur Hybrid.
Interesting subject. I think your on the right track waiting for the leaves and a lot of the time, IMO, they tell the tale of the tape. Bark, tree structure, and if you get lucky, the acorns, are further indicators. I've been growing oaks since I was 14, and I am now 65, so, 50 years give or take. Varieties are 2 different reds, bimunder, burgamble, DCO, SWO, chinkopin, white. About 20-25 years ago, I bought my favorite, 5 burgamble, from a nursery. 2 of them started producing at about 12-14 feet high, about 7 years ago, and I have grown somewhere between 50 and 100 of them. I have only gotten one tree that looks like a true burgamble parent tree! All of the rest of them do not have a leaf structure that looks like the parent at all. Granted, they are hybrids to begin with, so it is hard to tell what the results will be. I wonder about different varieties. Do they self pollinate? Do they have a tendency to grow true to form regardless of the pollinator?
I found a chinkopin in my neighborhood. I grew 30 or so. There are no other chinkopins around. 50% looked like chinkopins and 50% did not.
I grew 50 or so bimundor from acorns that I found on a tree at a funeral home. There are no other bimundors around. They all are bimundor.
It's like a box of chocolates.
Enjoy your posts. Thanks..
P.S. - i have not read any books or found anything specifically related to tree identification other than random information and pictures and descriptions on the internet and from all the nurseries selling trees. Being located in Michigan, I like this one - https://ohiodnr.gov/wps/portal/gov/...lants-trees/broad-leaf-trees/broad-leaf-trees
I found a chinkopin in my neighborhood. I grew 30 or so. There are no other chinkopins around. 50% looked like chinkopins and 50% did not.
I grew 50 or so bimundor from acorns that I found on a tree at a funeral home. There are no other bimundors around. They all are bimundor.
It's like a box of chocolates.
Enjoy your posts. Thanks..
P.S. - i have not read any books or found anything specifically related to tree identification other than random information and pictures and descriptions on the internet and from all the nurseries selling trees. Being located in Michigan, I like this one - https://ohiodnr.gov/wps/portal/gov/...lants-trees/broad-leaf-trees/broad-leaf-trees
shedder
Active Member
Hybrid id is a black art from what I see. The oak guys are always talking about it on the oak sites. They use intermediate morphology, etc. There are no books I have seen and I am not sure how these guys get their chops. One guy was using a target .22 to shoot limbs down looking for hybrids. LOL
Per this it may all be speculation.
https://phys.org/news/2021-04-revea...L8IRSPD_jjNbvtMJ5xllKm-0R6ha7yuPA02LfBcjohVA8
They claim white oak, Q alba is introgressed with different oaks throughout its range. It likely is because dna says oaks are incredibly complex. They reserve a portion of their DNA for critical stuff but scramble the rest.
Q robur is an aggressive colonizer in Europe. Its close cousin, Q petraea, spreads by crossing into robur and then crossing back out again. This is mind blowing to me. Most oaks likely do something similar.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I may have to write the book myself. It won’t be the first thing I’ve ever figured out on my own. When the leaves mature I will be all over this, but I won’t need a target 22.....
I found another one recently that I think has to be a Q Alba crossed with Chinkapin Oak. The bark is whiter than any Alba you have ever seen but young leaves are Chinkapin. I will be watching this one and a few others.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
dogghr
Well-Known Member
I’ve been a little slow catching up on everything here Native. Looks to be a lot of inbreeding in KY. 
I was taking note today at my farm of a massive WO that died about 6years ago. Amazing of how quickly the decompose. Woodpeckers have mined it relentlessly. I read a lot of journals from early explorers of our country and pretty amazing the jungles they penetrated. Forests were multi culture of plant life from the canopy to various levels of flora shelves down to the ground. Must’ve been amazing to see.
Good read. Thanks for posting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was taking note today at my farm of a massive WO that died about 6years ago. Amazing of how quickly the decompose. Woodpeckers have mined it relentlessly. I read a lot of journals from early explorers of our country and pretty amazing the jungles they penetrated. Forests were multi culture of plant life from the canopy to various levels of flora shelves down to the ground. Must’ve been amazing to see.
Good read. Thanks for posting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link and glad you are tagging along on this thread.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
I’ve been a little slow catching up on everything here Native. Looks to be a lot of inbreeding in KY.
I was taking note today at my farm of a massive WO that died about 6years ago. Amazing of how quickly the decompose. Woodpeckers have mined it relentlessly. I read a lot of journals from early explorers of our country and pretty amazing the jungles they penetrated. Forests were multi culture of plant life from the canopy to various levels of flora shelves down to the ground. Must’ve been amazing to see.
Good read. Thanks for posting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks dogghr - and perhaps there will be some alien oaks before this is over.....like those alien fruits.......
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Here is one of about 5 trees I think could be a hybrid of some kind - or something I've never heard of. It started leafing out before any of the others, and there is not another tree in the entire planting that looks like it. Feel free to save me some time and ID it if you can.
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dogghr
Well-Known Member
Here is one of about 5 trees I think could be a hybrid of some kind - or something I've never heard of. It started leafing out before any of the others, and there is not another tree in the entire planting that looks like it. Feel free to save me some time and ID it if you can.
I’ve only seen one ever in some lowlands but a Turkey Oak has leaves and bark similar to your pic.
Quercus cerris
Prob not but is a guess.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
That’s what I’m thinking too. When the leaves come on out we will dig deeper. I have a pin oak crowding this one. It will be cut down because I have several other pin oaks.
George
Well-Known Member
I was calling the cross quercus x georgei but then saw someone already started calling it schuettei. You get a swamp white shaped leaf that is lobed like macrocarpa and an acorn with bur fringe that doesn't cover as much of the acorn as a bur acorn. The acorn is set on a long pedicle but not as long as a bicolor.
In Iowa I had red, black, white, swamp white, schuettei, bur, pin, shingles. In northern ky, anyhow, there seems to be less inbreeding despite dogghr's assertion, I have red, white, black, and chestnut. I need to study closer for possible hybrids.
Pin oaks are of the red family with smaller lesser quality acorns for wildlife.
There is so much variation in oak leaves it is hard to tell who is doing who.
G
In Iowa I had red, black, white, swamp white, schuettei, bur, pin, shingles. In northern ky, anyhow, there seems to be less inbreeding despite dogghr's assertion, I have red, white, black, and chestnut. I need to study closer for possible hybrids.
Pin oaks are of the red family with smaller lesser quality acorns for wildlife.
There is so much variation in oak leaves it is hard to tell who is doing who.
G
