The Year of The Oaks

[Native Hunter]

Overcup Oak - Quercus lyrata
Now we are going to cover Overcup Oak like the big one pictured above. Here is some information on it:

· This oak typically grows in areas that are heavily flooded in winter and early spring. It can grow well in other less wet areas, but taller oaks or other tall species can possibly shade it out. However, in these wet areas, no other oak and few other trees can compete with it.

· Due to the above, this oak doesn't leaf out until a month later than other oaks. This is nature’s way of giving the spring waters time to go down before the tree comes out of winter dormancy.

· This is not one of the top oaks for deer, but it is a good one and has its place. I’m glad to have a few of them but probably have a few more than I want. I would prefer more Swamp Whites and Swamp Chestnuts rather than Overcup.

· The acorn is very unusual. First of all, the acorn has a spongy buoyant cup that covers nearly the entire nut. This too plays well to the location the tree is usually found. The flood waters carry the floating acorns to many locations so that the tree can spread.

· Overcup acorns are some of the first to fall. They are not preferred by deer because their tannin levels are more like red oaks. Deer will eat them early on but move to other white oaks when they start dropping.

· However, Overcup acorns don’t sprout in the fall like other white oak family acorns. They wait until spring. Late in the year, deer may move back to them when the more preferred acorns are gone. The acorns won’t rot over winter like other white oaks.

· The species has a tendency to keep lower limbs for a long time – similar to how Pin Oak does. However, the branches don’t droop down like Pin Oak.

· Overcup Oak wants to to spread out more than any other oak I planted. When it can find room, it will get wide quickly. When crowded, it will grow more vertically.

· I’m not sure how the Overcups are doing on acorn production. I will try to watch closer this fall.

· The tree is best identified by its leaves – See link below:

· For other information that I have not covered above, I am including a link to the USDA data below:

OVERCUP OAK (usda.gov)

I have several of these Overcups, and many of them have already carved out their spot on my land. No other oak has grown as big, except that some crowed red oaks have grown a little taller, and a few of the bigger Swamp Chestnut Oaks are about the same height. Overcup was not in my tree order. Someone at the nursery (either accidentally or on purpose) put in a bundle of Overcups that was supposed to be White Oaks (Q Alba). I only noticed this in a few years after planting when I saw the trees leaf out a month later than Q Alba.

This is not a great picture of the leaves, but you can see the link above from USDA for a better picture.



Note the lower limbs on this one still holding tight:



This picture shows one of the bigger trees but not the largest.



That’s about it guys for Overcup Oak. Let me know if you have any questions. In a few days we will move on to another Oak. I’m probably going to do Swamp White Oak - Quercus bicolor next but may change my mind.

 

[John Paul]

Very good read and thank you for the info. Talk about having to have a long term plan to envision planting as many oaks as you have to enjoy! What age were you when you planted all these oaks? I know that’s a random question but that’s something that popped into my head for some reason.

 

[Native Hunter]

Very good read and thank you for the info. Talk about having to have a long term plan to envision planting as many oaks as you have to enjoy! What age were you when you planted all these oaks? I know that’s a random question but that’s something that popped into my head for some reason.

Thanks John Paul. I would have been 48 - 50 when these trees were planted. I’ve got some good exercise over the years knocking back the sweetgums and other competing trees. It’s something I have enjoyed doing very much. It has paid off, because we have taken some dandy bucks in and around the planting over the last few years.

 

[shedder]

https://www.indefenseofplants.com/blog/2020/9/7/the-overcup-oak

Good info here.

https://www.internationaloaksociety.org/content/species-spotlight-quercus-lyrata-walter

Same info, bertter pix.

It may be suffering decline due to human induced changes.

They get big too. source= https://www.facebook.com/groups/377776559435091/permalink/881532882392787/

 

[shedder]

"This is not one of the top oaks for deer, but it is a good one and has its place. I’m glad to have a few of them but probably have a few more than I want. I would prefer more Swamp Whites and Swamp Chestnuts rather than Overcup."

I got a 100, a few years ago, by mistake and planted them. They were not on my radar because everything I saw said the acorns were poor deer food. However when I ate a few I was surprised they were close to a swamp white oak in flavour. There was an aftertaste of tannin but not as bad as I expected. Nothing like a red oak for sure.

Has anyone seen that, too?

 

[shedder]

Also over the years, I have seen evidence that they do well much further north than their range suggests.

Genetically they are supposed to be the close cousin to Q bicolor, or maybe its southern counterpart.

 

[shedder]

What ph is the soil your oaks are in? Is it very fertile?

 

[Native Hunter]

What ph is the soil your oaks are in? Is it very fertile?

I've never done a soil test, but I know it is on the acidic side. My guess would be about 6.0, because I can grow apples well without liming. I have many chestnuts on the drier part of the field, and they grow really well.

I would call the land fertile. It is primarily a loam, and the bedrock is very deep. It's not swampy, but it is a little on the damp side for cropping. However, my son owns a field across the road that is very similar, and it is farmed in a soybean and corn rotation. In a very dry year the extra moisture is a plus, but in really wet years there will be just a few low places that get too much moisture.

 

[Native Hunter]

"This is not one of the top oaks for deer, but it is a good one and has its place. I’m glad to have a few of them but probably have a few more than I want. I would prefer more Swamp Whites and Swamp Chestnuts rather than Overcup."

I got a 100, a few years ago, by mistake and planted them. They were not on my radar because everything I saw said the acorns were poor deer food. However when I ate a few I was surprised they were close to a swamp white oak in flavour. There was an aftertaste of tannin but not as bad as I expected. Nothing like a red oak for sure.

Has anyone seen that, too?

It's not native here, so my knowledge of it is vicarious. However, from what I can gather from others, it may be more reliable in years when other white oaks have poor crops. It is hit very early until other white oaks start dropping and then again very late in the year, because the acorns don't rot.

 

[Fishman]

Native,
What do the acorns look like on your overcups? I have grown them for a few years now, but have always collected acorns from trees from a local wildlife management area that routinely floods. The acorns are like the acorns on the right in the photo below. The cap usually covers almost the entire acorn and the pericarp/shell is very thick. Last fall I found an apartment complex that used overcups as landscaping trees. A couple of the trees dropped a lot of acorns into November and the acorns are on the left in the photo. The caps are not as thick, do not extend that far down the acorn, and the pericarp is not that thick. It is my hope that the seedlings from the apartment trees will be abundant producers and that the wildlife will like the thin walled, small capped acorns more. I should be able to report back on my hypothesis in 15-20 years.

As an FYI, I have found that removing the cap from overcup acorns speeds up the germination process by several weeks.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native,
What do the acorns look like on your overcups? I have grown them for a few years now, but have always collected acorns from trees from a local wildlife management area that routinely floods. The acorns are like the acorns on the right in the photo below. The cap usually covers almost the entire acorn and the pericarp/shell is very thick. Last fall I found an apartment complex that used overcups as landscaping trees. A couple of the trees dropped a lot of acorns into November and the acorns are on the left in the photo. The caps are not as thick, do not extend that far down the acorn, and the pericarp is not that thick. It is my hope that the seedlings from the apartment trees will be abundant producers and that the wildlife will like the thin walled, small capped acorns more. I should be able to report back on my hypothesis in 15-20 years.

As an FYI, I have found that removing the cap from overcup acorns speeds up the germination process by several weeks.

Fishman, thanks for your observations. Unfortunately, I haven't watched the Overcups close enough to answer your question at this time. However, this fall I plan on being more observant, and I will try to answer you then. I'm guessing that your hypothesis is that trees in unflooded areas may produce more palatable acorns and perhaps even drop later..... That's possible, and hopefully I can help provide some answers later in the year.

 

[Native Hunter]

I have one more thought on Overcup Oak before I move on to the next species in a few days - it seems to me that Overcup could potentially have a great value in years that Red Oak acorns have poor crops. This is because the acorns of Overcup (unlike other white oaks) remain viable until spring. They could theoretically take the place of Red Oaks in some years when Red Oak acorns were not available.

 

[Native Hunter]

Swamp White Oak - Quercus bicolor

Swamp White Oak is a very desirable addition to my planting.

Facts about this oak:

· A member of the white oak family.

· This is another white oak with highly prized whitetail acorns with low tannin. Like the Swamp Chestnut Oak, some reports say that humans can eat them without leaching.

· This is another bottomland species but growing well on my damp upland site. They are about the same size as the previous two oaks discussed. I estimate the largest ones are 30 feet tall after 15-17 years.

· Young trees will have a pyramidal shape, but they will become more rounded with age.

· I’ve discovered recently that I have a lot more of this species than I first thought. That makes me extremely happy.

· There are four ways I have found to help identify these oaks.

o First way – many of them will exhibit marcescence (holding leaves until the following spring). This is especially true of younger trees.

o Second way – The bark has some unusual peeling. Some other oaks will have peeling bark, but it is unlike SWO. See the pictures later on in this post.

o Third Way – The leaves are somewhat like regular white oak but wider with shallower sinuses. The name “Bicolor” comes from the fact that the underside of the leaves are extremely light colored – almost white. This is more obvious on sun leaves than shade leaves. Other oaks can have leaves that are lighter on the underside but usually not to the degree of SWO. This trait will be very obvious when the wind is blowing hard and turning the leaves.

o Fourth Way - The long peduncle (stalk) on the acorns is a distinguishing characteristic of this species. They can be from ½ up to 4 inches long. Other oaks have shorter peduncles.

· I know that I have been getting acorns, because I’ve found some young seedlings nearby some of the mature trees.

· Here is the USDA link that will be helpful:
SWAMP WHITE OAK (usda.gov)

This is a good picture of the bark. At first it was hard for me to differentiate it from the other two oaks already covered, but I’m getting better at it now.



This is a good picture of the unique peeling bark on the limbs.


Here is some of the unique peeling bark on the trunk of a smaller tree.



Here are some of the leaves.









This is a picture of one at the edge of the planting. It is about average size.



This is one at the edge of the planting that’s above average size. It’s getting good sunlight right now, but you will notice the white pine starting to crowd it on the left side of the picture. Both are great trees, and I would hate to cut the pine. However, if I identify this oak as a prolific acorn producer, I might just do it.



Here is another one. This one is small and was being choked out by some junk trees, but I have released it now. This tree exhibits the pyramidal shape of younger trees.



I really love the pictures at this link. It especially illustrates the bicolor leaves.

https://landscapeplants.oregonstate.edu/plants/quercus-bicolor

That’s about it guys for Swamp White Oak. Let me know if you have any questions. In a few days we will move on to another Oak.

I will end with a cool picture. This is a pine tree in a yard across the highway from my tree planting. The pesky squirrels have been robbing my acorns and planting them under the pine.

 

[KSQ2]

Swamp White Oak - Quercus bicolor

Swamp White Oak is a very desirable addition to my planting.

Facts about this oak:

· A member of the white oak family.

· This is another white oak with highly prized whitetail acorns with low tannin. Like the Swamp Chestnut Oak, some reports say that humans can eat them without leaching.

· This is another bottomland species but growing well on my damp upland site. They are about the same size as the previous two oaks discussed. I estimate the largest ones are 30 feet tall after 15-17 years.

· Young trees will have a pyramidal shape, but they will become more rounded with age.

· I’ve discovered recently that I have a lot more of this species than I first thought. That makes me extremely happy.

· There are four ways I have found to help identify these oaks.

o First way – many of them will exhibit marcescence (holding leaves until the following spring). This is especially true of younger trees.

o Second way – The bark has some unusual peeling. Some other oaks will have peeling bark, but it is unlike SWO. See the pictures later on in this post.

o Third Way – The leaves are somewhat like regular white oak but wider with shallower sinuses. The name “Bicolor” comes from the fact that the underside of the leaves are extremely light colored – almost white. This is more obvious on sun leaves than shade leaves. Other oaks can have leaves that are lighter on the underside but usually not to the degree of SWO. This trait will be very obvious when the wind is blowing hard and turning the leaves.

o Fourth Way - The long peduncle (stalk) on the acorns is a distinguishing characteristic of this species. They can be from ½ up to 4 inches long. Other oaks have shorter peduncles.

· I know that I have been getting acorns, because I’ve found some young seedlings nearby some of the mature trees.

· Here is the USDA link that will be helpful:
SWAMP WHITE OAK (usda.gov)

This is a good picture of the bark. At first it was hard for me to differentiate it from the other two oaks already covered, but I’m getting better at it now.

This is a good picture of the unique peeling bark on the limbs.

Here is some of the unique peeling bark on the trunk of a smaller tree.

Here are some of the leaves.

This is a picture of one at the edge of the planting. It is about average size.

This is one at the edge of the planting that’s above average size. It’s getting good sunlight right now, but you will notice the white pine starting to crowd it on the left side of the picture. Both are great trees, and I would hate to cut the pine. However, if I identify this oak as a prolific acorn producer, I might just do it.

Here is another one. This one is small and was being choked out by some junk trees, but I have released it now. This tree exhibits the pyramidal shape of younger trees.

I really love the pictures at this link. It especially illustrates the bicolor leaves.

https://landscapeplants.oregonstate.edu/plants/quercus-bicolor

That’s about it guys for Swamp White Oak. Let me know if you have any questions. In a few days we will move on to another Oak.

I will end with a cool picture. This is a pine tree in a yard across the highway from my tree planting. The pesky squirrels have been robbing my acorns and planting them under the pine.

I’ll be getting a few of these from wildlife group next year. We have a few low areas I’d like to put them in. I’m planning to order some of their bigger bareroots and cage them. When we get close to the creek we have to worry about beavers too.

 

[Native Hunter]

I’ll be getting a few of these from wildlife group next year. We have a few low areas I’d like to put them in. I’m planning to order some of their bigger bareroots and cage them. When we get close to the creek we have to worry about beavers too.

I would mix them with some Swamp Chestnut Oaks. That would be a great duo for low ground.

 

[KSQ2]

I would mix them with some Swamp Chestnut Oaks. That would be a great duo for low ground.

Native, would you recommend mixing in some pin oaks? I’ve read good things about them and they are very tolerant of wet soils too.

 

[KSQ2]

"This is not one of the top oaks for deer, but it is a good one and has its place. I’m glad to have a few of them but probably have a few more than I want. I would prefer more Swamp Whites and Swamp Chestnuts rather than Overcup."

I got a 100, a few years ago, by mistake and planted them. They were not on my radar because everything I saw said the acorns were poor deer food. However when I ate a few I was surprised they were close to a swamp white oak in flavour. There was an aftertaste of tannin but not as bad as I expected. Nothing like a red oak for sure.

Has anyone seen that, too?

I was just doing some reading about oaks on Pursuit Hunting. I was actually looking up some information on pin oaks and happened upon some overcup oak opinions by accident. This fella’s observation has the overcup placed quite high in preference for the deer in his area. It’s a pretty old article, but it matches up quite well with what Native is saying.

http://www.pursuithunting.com/2007/09/reds-vs-whites-deer-are-acorn-snobs.html?m=1

 

[Native Hunter]

Native, would you recommend mixing in some pin oaks? I’ve read good things about them and they are very tolerant of wet soils too.

I sure would. They are one of the oaks I will be covering later. I have a Pin Oak that hangs out over the edge of a plot. All of the bucks got to using it as a scrape tree and before it was over with, I had a scrape that was 12 feet long. I should have taken a picture of that. The Pin Oaks really love the wet areas but seem to grow well about anywhere on my place.

 

[Native Hunter]

I was just doing some reading about oaks on Pursuit Hunting. I was actually looking up some information on pin oaks and happened upon some overcup oak opinions by accident. This fella’s observation has the overcup placed quite high in preference for the deer in his area. It’s a pretty old article, but it matches up quite well with what Native is saying.

http://www.pursuithunting.com/2007/09/reds-vs-whites-deer-are-acorn-snobs.html?m=1

Thanks for sharing that. This illustrates the need for having a good mix of different white oak and red oak varieties. That’s something I totally agree with.

 

[Kurt]

Great thread. I've got some ground on my place that has water very close to the surface. Kind of thinking of trying a swamp oak even though its a semi arid area. Thinking they may just do fine there. This will be one I come back to frequently to figure out other oaks that may work there. I do have one walnut tree growing besides the locusts, cottonwoods and cedars so am hopeful these will work there.