Stone Branch, build it, they will come.

[George]

Looks like the schrooms are growing well. My forester is after me to try growing shiitakes in oak logs but I've got to many other interests. This might be your kind of thing?

I could grow shrooms just can't find time for anything but habitat and deer hunting.

So I'm thinking on what seems to be working for me. Area in blue approximately 8.5 acres. The green line is my property line and my neighbors hunt just over the line.



Early 2019 the area had very few oaks to provide acorns and no natural browse at ground level. It was a stunted, overgrown maple garbage pile, no rubs.





In June 2019 the whole thing started in the blue area when I realized that I had to help one of the few white oaks by



releasing it.



And as it usually happens once I get the feeling I can't stop. I went on to hurt a lot of primarily red maples in the blue area. That was the year that I dropped 2 trees on my head.





I placed a stand centrally located on the ridge in the blue area for the 19/20 hunting season. During the 20/21 season I saw more deer than the year prior mostly to the southeast down the ridge top where I made more of a mess.



During the 21/22 season I pulled that stand to use somewhere else which essentially made the blue area a de facto sanctuary. Low and behold I started getting pictures of my Target 10 coming out of the blue area on the camera marked by the red x.



G

 

[George]

Looking down towards the rim trail that runs along the southern edge of the blue area I have some hickories, one shagbark, one nice white oak, some nicer sugar maples, and some more double girdles.



Along the rim trail I will kill more trees later in the summer with my hack hammer and tryclopyr.





I still have messy areas



and next to the messy areas there are more rubs. There are rubs all over the worked area.



This year I will get in to utilize some of the firewood.



The other day I added a couple dozen new girdles



to the old girdles.



I will come in and hack many of the remaining smaller red maples. I am going to hinge cut remaining smaller red maples along the blue/green property line. After that my de facto sanctuary will become the official ridge top non-violate sanctuary during and around the hunting season.

G

 

[George]

I don't care to do much hinge cutting



but in this spot along the property line it seems to work.



A nice red oak now free of undesirable neighbors.



Outside looking in.



I made sure to cut a passage way through along the rim trail.



Fifty yards in, rubs.



Inside looking out.





I've been trying for a week to catch a coyote, so far one coon.



3 nights ago coyotes paced the set from 10pm till 6:30am before they made off with the bait, a demeated deer carcass. They made off with the dead coon in another set down the trail. This is my first attempt at trapping coyotes, I don't seem to be very good at it.



G

 

[George]

I went and had a peek yesterday to see what was going on the north rim trail on the northern edge of the blue area.



Right down from the red x camera location, yah, that's what I would call a signpost rub.



Some spots along the north rim trail I mulched



and some I left unruly.



Mostly big hickories and a lot of little oaks remain. I think, pretty good deer cover with an abundance of acer and smilax browse.





More hinged along the line.



A new 10 who's been around the past few months.



G

 

[ng270]

Good luck with those yotes. I'm not just "not very good" - I suck. I ran traps for three nights early this month down there. Yote tracks everywhere every night, no success, again.

Appreciate the pics. Every time I compare the open sky in yours to my pics I see that I'm still too shy with the saw.

 

[George]

Good luck with those yotes. I'm not just "not very good" - I suck. I ran traps for three nights early this month down there. Yote tracks everywhere every night, no success, again.

Appreciate the pics. Every time I compare the open sky in yours to my pics I see that I'm still too shy with the saw.

Thanks ng, yes you have to get over your shyness, I had to years ago. Poor management and red maple are the reasons why oak/hickory communities are in decline. Don't forget about your hack hammer and triclopyr. I will probably kill another 100 maples this summer in the blue area.

Trapping is a lot of responsibility. I have gray fox, bobcats, neighbors last german shepherd, and above all deer that have been around the traps this week that I don't want to catch. The deer were too close to being caught and they seemed to be more interested in the set than the coyote. The traps were over there where the grape vine swings down and the deer were nosing around. I was worried that a deer would get caught, pull the cleat out of the ground and be limping around with a 550 for a bracelet. I pulled the traps yesterday.







G

 

[E_308]

Those deer feet will pop right out of a trap if it is anchored well. The neighbors german shepherd on the other hand!

Coyotes are definitely hard to trap. Scent control and trap bed prep are key.

 

[Kurt]

Place is looking great. Love all the trees and the work you are doing.

 

[George]

Those deer feet will pop right out of a trap if it is anchored well. The neighbors german shepherd on the other hand!

Coyotes are definitely hard to trap. Scent control and trap bed prep are key.

I cooked the traps in logwood, used rubber gloves and boots but the coyotes still knew that they were there. I'm going to try again down in the ditch.

Place is looking great. Love all the trees and the work you are doing.

Thanks Kurt.

G

 

[Buckly]

Waxing the traps helps a lot on scent control. It’s not only human scent but the metal they smell. Use a toothpick in the jaws and sanitize either by boiling or I know some who just use a dishwasher. Dip the traps in a bucket of melted paraffin and hang up to dry. It will put a very thin film on them. Then hang where they won’t pick up scent until use.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I could grow shrooms just can't find time for anything but habitat and deer hunting.

So I'm thinking on what seems to be working for me. Area in blue approximately 8.5 acres. The green line is my property line and my neighbors hunt just over the line.

View attachment 23181

Early 2019 the area had very few oaks to provide acorns and no natural browse at ground level. It was a stunted, overgrown maple garbage pile, no rubs.

View attachment 23182

View attachment 23183

In June 2019 the whole thing started in the blue area when I realized that I had to help one of the few white oaks by

View attachment 23184

releasing it.

View attachment 23185

And as it usually happens once I get the feeling I can't stop. I went on to hurt a lot of primarily red maples in the blue area. That was the year that I dropped 2 trees on my head.

View attachment 23186

View attachment 23187

I placed a stand centrally located on the ridge in the blue area for the 19/20 hunting season. During the 20/21 season I saw more deer than the year prior mostly to the southeast down the ridge top where I made more of a mess.

View attachment 23188

During the 21/22 season I pulled that stand to use somewhere else which essentially made the blue area a de facto sanctuary. Low and behold I started getting pictures of my Target 10 coming out of the blue area on the camera marked by the red x.

View attachment 23189

G

You're doing a great job of making a whitetail paradise and it reminds me of the many hours that I spent in the woods with a chainsaw doing the exact same thing, but I don't do that much cutting anymore, because I feel that I have found a better way. Now, the following explanation is not to criticize what you are doing, but rather, I applaud you for the hard work that you are putting into doing it right, and you probably don't have the options that I have.
I used to go out all day and cut 8-12" red maples and other low quality trees to release cherry trees, and red and white oaks, but then I was faced with the problem of the downed trees making the forest so thick that the deer couldn't travel anymore, which meant more long hours of cutting. One day I was talking to a forester, who mentioned that NRCS has many programs that pay you money to do that for you, and even if none of those apply, I can get a logger to pay me to do my work for me, cutting out that trash for paper.
Pay me to do my long hours of hard sweaty labor? I have to be really stupid not to go for that!
I started the process with quite a few doubts, but it actually worked out pretty well for us. NRCS money, plus logging money, plus free road repair including crushed limestone base, plus no downed trees to contend with, plus acres and acres of stump spouts, plus more new growth than I ever had working by hand because their big equipment exposed fresh dirt, plus they get in and out fast, letting our core bedding areas quiet down again long before the season begins, plus I can sit and watch (and stop dropping trees on my head), plus 100 acres of remaining quality seed trees growing 3 times faster than they had been growing in the higher density woods prior to the operation.
The first area worked out so well that I have done multiple similar operations since, and only get out my chainsaw to touch up smaller, more sensitive areas that I want to tweak a little bit.

 

[BenAllgood]

Poor management and red maple are the reasons why oak/hickory communities are in decline. Don't forget about your hack hammer and triclopyr. I will probably kill another 100 maples this summer in the blue area.

George, you're doing some great work. Are you doing anything different depending on slope aspect, or basically just getting rid of anything not oak or hickory or other wanted species?

 

[George]

Waxing the traps helps a lot on scent control. It’s not only human scent but the metal they smell. Use a toothpick in the jaws and sanitize either by boiling or I know some who just use a dishwasher. Dip the traps in a bucket of melted paraffin and hang up to dry. It will put a very thin film on them. Then hang where they won’t pick up scent until use.

Thanks Buckly, I may have to look into a wax job. I pulled the traps and the coyotes had no problem picking the bait station clean.





G

 

[George]

You're doing a great job of making a whitetail paradise and it reminds me of the many hours that I spent in the woods with a chainsaw doing the exact same thing, but I don't do that much cutting anymore, because I feel that I have found a better way. Now, the following explanation is not to criticize what you are doing, but rather, I applaud you for the hard work that you are putting into doing it right, and you probably don't have the options that I have.
I used to go out all day and cut 8-12" red maples and other low quality trees to release cherry trees, and red and white oaks, but then I was faced with the problem of the downed trees making the forest so thick that the deer couldn't travel anymore, which meant more long hours of cutting. One day I was talking to a forester, who mentioned that NRCS has many programs that pay you money to do that for you, and even if none of those apply, I can get a logger to pay me to do my work for me, cutting out that trash for paper.
Pay me to do my long hours of hard sweaty labor? I have to be really stupid not to go for that!
I started the process with quite a few doubts, but it actually worked out pretty well for us. NRCS money, plus logging money, plus free road repair including crushed limestone base, plus no downed trees to contend with, plus acres and acres of stump spouts, plus more new growth than I ever had working by hand because their big equipment exposed fresh dirt, plus they get in and out fast, letting our core bedding areas quiet down again long before the season begins, plus I can sit and watch (and stop dropping trees on my head), plus 100 acres of remaining quality seed trees growing 3 times faster than they had been growing in the higher density woods prior to the operation.
The first area worked out so well that I have done multiple similar operations since, and only get out my chainsaw to touch up smaller, more sensitive areas that I want to tweak a little bit.

the remoteness of the area and lack of infrastructure and problems with logistics makes it a tough sell. The opposite ridge is my north/west property line.



You need some choice lumber to get a logger interested in a select/high grade cut. There are no paper mills to feed around here.

This here is the ridge leading on to my east side.



and a perfect illustration to make my point. This piece is 160 acres that my neighbor leases and is part of the recently purchased 34,000 acres. The guy that bought it originally said that he would be clear cutting all of it (34.000 acres) for veneer logs for his mill and wood chips for China. He currently has 5 crews working the area. The latest word on the 160 acre lease next to me is that the logger will not be cutting it, it is not worth the effort for the time being. They will be clear cutting 1,000 acres over my northwest line where there is some choice lumber.

I looked into government programs in Iowa and made the decision that it just wasn't a good fit for my management style.

G

 

[George]

George, you're doing some great work. Are you doing anything different depending on slope aspect, or basically just getting rid of anything not oak or hickory or other wanted species?

Thanks Ben, I'm basically killing red maple everywhere. Different aspects do have species differentiations, for example on southern aspects I tend to hit poplar harder where they are not better suited. Whereas they tend to be my crop trees on northern aspects.

G

 

[dogghr]

Looks good G. I'm looking to log my mature crap this year possibly but been dragging my feet. Haven't done any tsi this year since that is on the agenda. I did have an opportunity this year of my 10 in my random cluster #4 and did shoot one of the 8s there, which is on a ridge that before my cuttings never had any buck bedding or movement, both of which I have now. I think they like the horizontal appearance whether the logs lay on the ground or are suspended with hinge cut. I hope I don't screw up my random /controlled deer pathways by logging the timber but I fear I shall, but the timber and I ain't gettin any younger.

On a side note while we are in a slight limbo with work, what are you comparisons of deer movement in various areas such as your MI, CO, ID, and now KY?? Similar, same, different, easier, harder?? Just curious. Keep up the good work young man, I plan to ride the Harley that way this summer, and maybe do a drive by for a burger with you if you are bored.

 

[George]

Looks good G. I'm looking to log my mature crap this year possibly but been dragging my feet. Haven't done any tsi this year since that is on the agenda. I did have an opportunity this year of my 10 in my random cluster #4 and did shoot one of the 8s there, which is on a ridge that before my cuttings never had any buck bedding or movement, both of which I have now. I think they like the horizontal appearance whether the logs lay on the ground or are suspended with hinge cut. I hope I don't screw up my random /controlled deer pathways by logging the timber but I fear I shall, but the timber and I ain't gettin any younger.

On a side note while we are in a slight limbo with work, what are you comparisons of deer movement in various areas such as your MI, CO, ID, and now KY?? Similar, same, different, easier, harder?? Just curious. Keep up the good work young man, I plan to ride the Harley that way this summer, and maybe do a drive by for a burger with you if you are bored.

Thanks Doug, please stop by, I don't get many visitors. The big yellow sign down on the edge of Stone Branch as you pull in says NO OUTLET, but I still get on average 1 intruder a month following their gps to nowhere. I can't even get usps or ups up the road anymore.

G

 

[OkieKubota]

Looking good George! I have the same issues with loggers...they dont think it’s enough to mess with. I wanted 20 acres cut and they said they would only be interested if I let them cut the whole 90 and what they really wanted was the mature white oaks,,,

 

[George]

On a side note while we are in a slight limbo with work, what are you comparisons of deer movement in various areas such as your MI, CO, ID, and now KY??

Mi- cover and ag. One October I passed 86 bucks before I killed the 87th. I was not uncommon to see 40 does pass through in the morning to bed in the marsh.

Ia- pastureland, ag about 1 mile out. Every year I might have had a hunt without seeing a deer. The bucks stayed close as long as the turnips lasted despite beans standing 400 yards away.

Co- Hills, mountains, no ag
I found a travel pattern from valley to hill. The next year being busy with my home sale I relied on that same pattern and didn't see a deer. I did see some deer haphazard in the mountains.

Ky- woods
20/21 season- 43 hunts, 32 hunts 0 deer seen, 20 deer seen total.
21/22 season- 30 hunts, 20 hunts 0 deer seen, 24 deer seen total

Looking good George! I have the same issues with loggers...they dont think it’s enough to mess with. I wanted 20 acres cut and they said they would only be interested if I let them cut the whole 90 and what they really wanted was the mature white oaks,,,

Thanks Okie, and they would pay you $100 for that white oak. A select cut means that they only take the biggest, best trees. The trees left behind, one would reason, would grow to be the next crop. In actuality the trees that are left never really go on to amount to anything. I say this after watching hours and hours of forestry seminars and studying lots of graphs. You may be better off to clear cut and start from the beginning. I'm fortunate on my property because the logger that logged this property in 96 made out well enough that he left a good number of trees that he could have taken.

G

 

[dogghr]

Interesting take on your various properties. It would take hard work for me to not see bucks on a sit.

As for timber…. I agree and have argued w good logging friends that they have mismanaged the forests by high grade timbering. You are correct in a clear cut would have advantage over most poorly conceived actions.
Actually I just returned from meeting w state Forestry guy today and surprisingly we were on the same page of action. Forests can be maintained for wildlife and monies while keeping a good cross structure of mature to new growth timber growing.


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