Stone Branch, build it, they will come.

[OkieKubota]

Mi- cover and ag. One October I passed 86 bucks before I killed the 87th. I was not uncommon to see 40 does pass through in the morning to bed in the marsh.

Ia- pastureland, ag about 1 mile out. Every year I might have had a hunt without seeing a deer. The bucks stayed close as long as the turnips lasted despite beans standing 400 yards away.

Co- Hills, mountains, no ag
I found a travel pattern from valley to hill. The next year being busy with my home sale I relied on that same pattern and didn't see a deer. I did see some deer haphazard in the mountains.

Ky- woods
20/21 season- 43 hunts, 32 hunts 0 deer seen, 20 deer seen total.
21/22 season- 30 hunts, 20 hunts 0 deer seen, 24 deer seen total



Thanks Okie, and they would pay you $100 for that white oak. A select cut means that they only take the biggest, best trees. The trees left behind, one would reason, would grow to be the next crop. In actuality the trees that are left never really go on to amount to anything. I say this after watching hours and hours of forestry seminars and studying lots of graphs. You may be better off to clear cut and start from the beginning. I'm fortunate on my property because the logger that logged this property in 96 made out well enough that he left a good number of trees that he could have taken.

G

I was going to let them cut all the white oaks on 10 acres next to my neighbors and they are some really nice big trees but they wanted all of them in the creek bottom and everywhere else as well...told me it wasn’t worth their time for 10-20 acres. My plan now is to cut those white oaks myself, skid them out and take them to a buddy of mines who has an actual honest to goodness sawmill and just have them sawn into lumber for us here on the farm....

 

[Mennoniteman]

Mi- cover and ag. One October I passed 86 bucks before I killed the 87th. I was not uncommon to see 40 does pass through in the morning to bed in the marsh.

Ia- pastureland, ag about 1 mile out. Every year I might have had a hunt without seeing a deer. The bucks stayed close as long as the turnips lasted despite beans standing 400 yards away.

Co- Hills, mountains, no ag
I found a travel pattern from valley to hill. The next year being busy with my home sale I relied on that same pattern and didn't see a deer. I did see some deer haphazard in the mountains.

Ky- woods
20/21 season- 43 hunts, 32 hunts 0 deer seen, 20 deer seen total.
21/22 season- 30 hunts, 20 hunts 0 deer seen, 24 deer seen total



Thanks Okie, and they would pay you $100 for that white oak. A select cut means that they only take the biggest, best trees. The trees left behind, one would reason, would grow to be the next crop. In actuality the trees that are left never really go on to amount to anything. I say this after watching hours and hours of forestry seminars and studying lots of graphs. You may be better off to clear cut and start from the beginning. I'm fortunate on my property because the logger that logged this property in 96 made out well enough that he left a good number of trees that he could have taken.

G

I'm a bit baffled about your statement "the trees that are left never really go on to amount to anything"? Do you mean that they only let red maple behind? Or are you saying that the smaller oaks won't amount to anything? Because we do this all the time, and depending on the soil quality, these smaller oak and poplar trees are saw logs in 13 to 26 years...

 

[George]

I'm a bit baffled about your statement "the trees that are left never really go on to amount to anything"? Do you mean that they only let red maple behind? Or are you saying that the smaller oaks won't amount to anything? Because we do this all the time, and depending on the soil quality, these smaller oak and poplar trees are saw logs in 13 to 26 years...

You are doing this in a forest that you have managed the past 30 years that have oak regeneration and given the appropriate amount of light. Oaks sapling tend to do best at 30% open canopy. More light favors birch and poplar. Less maple and beech. If given more light you need to come back in and re release oaks.

I was talking primarily even aged stands of oak. These young stands when young are oak, hickory, maple, beech. The oaks grow faster and take up the canopy. When you come in and high grade the stand the oaks are removed leaving only maple, zero oak regeneration.

If it is a limited diameter cut all of the larger trees are removed and the poor quality subordinates remain. Remember, once a runt, always a runt. Do a second limited diameter cut after a period and most of the oak component will be removed.

If Dogghr's logger comes in to sustain and maximize future potential he will remove a smaller percentage of the most valuable trees say 20% and all of the cull trees. This may very depending on habitat goals. Canopy will be opened to 20-40%

I see this all play out very well on my ground, many stands have zero oak regeneration under the maple and beech. Foresters talk about having 50 crop trees per acre when doing crop tree release. On some of my better stands I would probably be lucky if I have 10 crop trees per acre. I probably have 20 oak crop trees on 20 acres of my ridge top that I have worked so far. I do have some nice oak stands scattered about. I'm doing most of my work in the red maples. I have some areas that I have worked that have oak regeneration that will benefit greatly by my removing the canopy of red maple. I do have nice crop trees other than oak like poplars, hickory, and sugar maples.

I don't have an overabundance of deer and my invasives load is manageable. Other places trying to grow an oak tree aren't so lucky. I do however have a special growth of jap stiltgrass that wants to fill the same niche that oak seedlings do best in.

The ForestConnect series from Cornell to be aewsome informational must see computer. I just looked and they have a new one hot off the grill 5 hours- Mapping and Monitoring Forest Biomass and Carbon Benefits.

This is a good one but they are all good ones- Forest Stand Thinning - Some Concepts and Methods - YouTube

G

 

[Buckly]

I had a forester describe this to me as a one cut wonder. In some cases a two cut wonder and then the stand is done. No regeneration of oak. Once the top is off everything else takes over so fast. I see this in my block of about 1000 acres. No oaks even though just a few miles away there are oaks everywhere. Back when, they took the top off and that was it, the oaks were gone never to return.

 

[George]

I had a forester describe this to me as a one cut wonder. In some cases a two cut wonder and then the stand is done. No regeneration of oak. Once the top is off everything else takes over so fast. I see this in my block of about 1000 acres. No oaks even though just a few miles away there are oaks everywhere. Back when, they took the top off and that was it, the oaks were gone never to return.

One practice that has gone by the way, now reintroduced to Stone Branch, that allowed oak/hickory communities to thrive, fire.

What's more when there is a thinning of the canopy the smaller trees benefit and grow at a slower pace than the larger trees because there is a genetic component.

G

 

[George]

Looking towards the sunny ridge from the blue side



and from the sunny ridge looking back.



The Kinniconick watershed to the west.



The corner of my property looking west



To the right lies the future 1000 acre clearcut



and to the left, my ground.



The deer are bedding up there



and still scratching for acorns.



There are a few rubs.



There are a couple of nice flats on my side of the fence. One of the guys that leases the 1000 has a ladder stand and a bait station up on the property line so I have yet to venture up there to hunt. I did hear that they got pictures of a 180" deer in that location. I will eventually be hunting up there but am now waiting for the clear cut to see what shakes out. Having a clearcut bordering my oaks will be awesome.



G

 

[Turkish]

G, I hunt similar hardwood hills and hollows in the loess hills and bluff country near the MS River in SW MS. Our land is only different in that it’s less rocky and not as far top to bottom as yours.

It seems like your philosophy is mostly to find deery spots and known travel areas to hunt and improve them with sunlight. Do you worry at all about having separate bedding and feeding locations, which is a priority for many land mgrs to encourage more consistent deer travel? It seems to me this is a big difficulty that may hamper hunting opportunities in our type of ground. Curious to hear your thoughts.

eta: we also have many deerless hunts.

 

[Mennoniteman]

You are doing this in a forest that you have managed the past 30 years that have oak regeneration and given the appropriate amount of light. Oaks sapling tend to do best at 30% open canopy. More light favors birch and poplar. Less maple and beech. If given more light you need to come back in and re release oaks.

I was talking primarily even aged stands of oak. These young stands when young are oak, hickory, maple, beech. The oaks grow faster and take up the canopy. When you come in and high grade the stand the oaks are removed leaving only maple, zero oak regeneration.

If it is a limited diameter cut all of the larger trees are removed and the poor quality subordinates remain. Remember, once a runt, always a runt. Do a second limited diameter cut after a period and most of the oak component will be removed.

If Dogghr's logger comes in to sustain and maximize future potential he will remove a smaller percentage of the most valuable trees say 20% and all of the cull trees. This may very depending on habitat goals. Canopy will be opened to 20-40%

I see this all play out very well on my ground, many stands have zero oak regeneration under the maple and beech. Foresters talk about having 50 crop trees per acre when doing crop tree release. On some of my better stands I would probably be lucky if I have 10 crop trees per acre. I probably have 20 oak crop trees on 20 acres of my ridge top that I have worked so far. I do have some nice oak stands scattered about. I'm doing most of my work in the red maples. I have some areas that I have worked that have oak regeneration that will benefit greatly by my removing the canopy of red maple. I do have nice crop trees other than oak like poplars, hickory, and sugar maples.

I don't have an overabundance of deer and my invasives load is manageable. Other places trying to grow an oak tree aren't so lucky. I do however have a special growth of jap stiltgrass that wants to fill the same niche that oak seedlings do best in.

The ForestConnect series from Cornell to be aewsome informational must see computer. I just looked and they have a new one hot off the grill 5 hours- Mapping and Monitoring Forest Biomass and Carbon Benefits.

This is a good one but they are all good ones- Forest Stand Thinning - Some Concepts and Methods - YouTube

G

That explains it very well and makes sense to me. I love talking about trees, and trying to understand them better. That jap stiltgrass is a major problem. In central Pennsylvania DCNR did a several 1000 acre timber stand improvement, and the stiltgrass and hay scented ferns took over because of too much sunshine, and it's currently a desert of a few large oaks and zero regeneration.
Does fire take care of stiltgrass?

 

[George]

G, I hunt similar hardwood hills and hollows in the loess hills and bluff country near the MS River in SW MS. Our land is only different in that it’s less rocky and not as far top to bottom as yours.

It seems like your philosophy is mostly to find deery spots and known travel areas to hunt and improve them with sunlight. Do you worry at all about having separate bedding and feeding locations, which is a priority for many land mgrs to encourage more consistent deer travel? It seems to me this is a big difficulty that may hamper hunting opportunities in our type of ground. Curious to hear your thoughts.

eta: we also have many deerless hunts.

I studied your area on google earth in the past after we had spoken, even more similar to my ground in Iowa. Anyone that thinks that they can control deer travel patterns in this sort of terrain is dreaming. I bring in light to make the best bedding areas also good feeding areas. The more food that we can have everywhere will bring more deer into our locations. Bucks like to bed in certain setups but they have those setups scattered all over the place. In Iowa, I got to where if I saw a buck come out to the food plot from a certain direction one day I would set up in the opposite direction or the next ridge food plot over the next day. This worked for me this year on my target 10. I thought, I have to hunt over there by where he has been coming out to the east. But I didn't, I got into my stand 200 yards to the west and that is where he showed up with does during light. I am going to keep working on my food plot up there. The mature doe showed up and was eating the greens on the ridge top. It was her offspring that was in heat or near that the buck was following around.

I have never been a bait pile hunter since I started killing big bucks but I kind of am one now here in Ky. I have 4 bait/camera locations set up and it seems to be a crap shoot as to which one to set on. But I think that having the bait stations scattered about in a relatively small area keeps the does interested and moving about the area. Wind will usually dictate where to hunt. The stand that I killed my target 10 had no bait pile. There was a bait pile up on the ridge but the deer were not there eating corn.

That explains it very well and makes sense to me. I love talking about trees, and trying to understand them better. That jap stiltgrass is a major problem. In central Pennsylvania DCNR did a several 1000 acre timber stand improvement, and the stiltgrass and hay scented ferns took over because of too much sunshine, and it's currently a desert of a few large oaks and zero regeneration.
Does fire take care of stiltgrass?

Me too and I appreciate the dialog. From my initial observations fire does seem take care of stiltgrass but not the way we would prefer. My best stands of stiltgrass come up where I burn.

 

[George]

30" + chestnut oaks, some.













Beds right up where they're supposed to be.



Tracks zig zagging every which way in my woody browse plot.





I'm missing some terminal buds off of the red maple hinged recently.



G

 

[George]

Took a south aspect down.













G

 

[George]

I finally got around to trimming the tall sycamore along my cabin plot.



After that I decided to have a peek





inside of my new house.







G

 

[dogghr]

The logs of cabin look surprisingly healthy even along the bases where they usually rot. At least in the pics.

 

[George]

The logs of cabin look surprisingly healthy even along the bases where they usually rot. At least in the pics.

So far so good. I got into the southwest corner yesterday. The western wall has the most weather exposure and is also where the now absent old fireplace and chimney were located. There are logs on that wall bottom that will need replacing.





I'm now processing chestnut boards as I remove them.



It looks as thou my best replacement logs are located in the bottom of the one still sturdy tabaco bay/bin in the barn.



The other bin has been falling into the creek for years and other than one maple log that I propped up, there doesn't seem to be much of anything holding the whole structure up.







G

 

[George]

I found a petroglyph on the wall the other day



and removed the boards so as to leave the option of preserving the americana folk art in one form or another.



Yesterday I found another drawing and signature that looks to have been made prior to nailing the board to the ceiling leading me to believe that it is the craftsman's calling card.



The digs are coming along.



I have some nails and boards to pull today.



G

 

[Native Hunter]

Those pictures look familiar. I'm thinking some of my ancestors must have lived in your cabin.......

 

[George]

Those pictures look familiar. I'm thinking some of my ancestors must have lived in your cabin.......

Fun fact, your kinfolk invented upside down scissor rafters. They had to trade their best cow for a box of nails





G

 

[massey]

I can smell that place from N Carolina.


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[George]

I can smell that place from N Carolina.
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Smells like money or old wood other than that not much odor. Had a guy yesterday speculating $60-$70k worth in chestnut logs.

G

 

[massey]

Yeah. Not a bad smell…. I’ve renovated old homes for 30 years or so. But I can still smell it by looking at the pics.
Those chestnut boards are worth plenty. Usually the more worm holes the better. Also, the carpenter on that handmade Truss knew EXACTLY what he was doing!!! The more triangles on the lower 3rd of the rafter span the better!! Snow and ice load builds up ( in the south) on the lower 1/3 of the the span in spring. Especially on a metal (tin) roof. I always put a tree stand up near an old, rotten one from hundred years ago. There’s a reason for this. Those old timers knew from experience!


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