Shooting doe with fawns

[Deadeye]

Cull Buck is a JOKE.

Especially guys that are hunting on Public land and say they shot this Buck because he was a Cull. The Truth is they shot the Buck because they wanted to. No reason to Justify it to anyone else. No reason to call it a Cull Buck. Just say you wanted to shoot it and tell the truth.

Now, IF and that to me is a BIG IF, you have total control on a very large piece of Property and have had so for years and perhaps even have it High Fenced and You Know Your Deer, THEN if you see a certain trait in an area and you wish to eliminate it then maybe Cull out that type Buck to remove it from the Gene Pool. the Above Mentioned lack of Brow Tines is a great example.

But for most Hunters that will never be the case and never has been. The Penn State University did Deer Studies for Years starting way back in the 1970's that I'm aware of. They PROVED that the old A Spike is A Spike and always will Be and total Lie. Age and Available Food means more than anything else.

 

[shawn cox]

Cull Buck is a JOKE.

Especially guys that are hunting on Public land and say they shot this Buck because he was a Cull. The Truth is they shot the Buck because they wanted to. No reason to Justify it to anyone else. No reason to call it a Cull Buck. Just say you wanted to shoot it and tell the truth.

Now, IF and that to me is a BIG IF, you have total control on a very large piece of Property and have had so for years and perhaps even have it High Fenced and You Know Your Deer, THEN if you see a certain trait in an area and you wish to eliminate it then maybe Cull out that type Buck to remove it from the Gene Pool. the Above Mentioned lack of Brow Tines is a great example.

But for most Hunters that will never be the case and never has been. The Penn State University did Deer Studies for Years starting way back in the 1970's that I'm aware of. They PROVED that the old A Spike is A Spike and always will Be and total Lie. Age and Available Food means more than anything else.

yep, and that's why I watch a deer for at least two years to see if he will grow out some brows or if the rack has been messed up from injury during velvet or from pedicle injury to see if it will correct itself. If not after two years I will put them on the list. Pedicle damage doesn't bother me and will not hurt the gene pool, I just would rather not feed that deer and waste the money on protein for him when it could be going to another deer with better potential and also some get only a spike coming up and that gets real dangerous to other bucks in the fall.

 

[TheOldOak]

On my place, with plenty of coyotes, bobcats, and the occasional stray dogs, the most valuable deer are the does that can successfully raise fawns in these challenging conditions. There are some does that i'm sure have been living on this place for 4-5 years because I pass them up many times during either bow or rifle season. I see some of them like clockwork during the early bow season. Heres' a couple of pictures that drive home my point about the darn coyotes. Note this is the middle of the day and the coyote is 6 minutes behind the fawn. Don't believe he ever caught up to this one. Another benefit to all the nutrition, these fawns have the stamina to stay ahead of the coyotes.

 

[TheOldOak]

 

[Drycreek]

Cull Buck is a JOKE.

Especially guys that are hunting on Public land and say they shot this Buck because he was a Cull. The Truth is they shot the Buck because they wanted to. No reason to Justify it to anyone else. No reason to call it a Cull Buck. Just say you wanted to shoot it and tell the truth.

Now, IF and that to me is a BIG IF, you have total control on a very large piece of Property and have had so for years and perhaps even have it High Fenced and You Know Your Deer, THEN if you see a certain trait in an area and you wish to eliminate it then maybe Cull out that type Buck to remove it from the Gene Pool. the Above Mentioned lack of Brow Tines is a great example.

But for most Hunters that will never be the case and never has been. The Penn State University did Deer Studies for Years starting way back in the 1970's that I'm aware of. They PROVED that the old A Spike is A Spike and always will Be and total Lie. Age and Available Food means more than anything else.

Right there with you Deadeye ! In my lifetime of deer hunting I think I’ve killed two actual cull bucks. Both of them were on the same property a couple years apart and both were three year olds with no brows.

Dr. James Kroll also did extensive testing here in Texas by capturing and tagging 160 young bucks and running the results out to four years. I can’t remember all the details but the gist is that after the fourth year all the bucks were within 3”/4” in score. They all started as either spike yearlings, or four to six point yearlings. The “once a spike, always a spike” bunkum started from one small study done in the Texas Hill Country years and years ago. The smallest (and most overpopulated) deer in Texas have always been in the Hill Country. It’s better now that proper management practices have taken hold, but when I started deer hunting we used to leave E Texas on Friday night, get to Llano County at daylight, kill two does each and be gone by two o’clock. It was just that easy. They usually weighed about 75 lb. on the hoof !

 

[farmhunter]

Same here, Cutman.

same as well

 

[Deadeye]

Where I lived back in Pa there was a very nice State Forest called Cook's Forest. On the way there there was a place called Double Diamond Deer Ranch.

They raised Deer and had them in wooden pens built in the native woodlands for you to walk around and look at. Boy they had some Monsters too!

Anyway, they had one wall where they would display the Racks after shedding of each Buck for years until they died or they sold them or whatever. You could follow the Growth Curve on that wall of how ever the small puny 1st rack Bucks given time and food could become a very nice Buck. Maybe not a Monster but still very nice.

It was also interesting to see how the Racks grew in size and ,mass until a certain point when they would reverse and go back down. I think the one Buck died around 10-12 years old. At the 4-7 year ranges he was Massive, but come the next years he went down hill and actually pretty fast, to the point that his last racks were about the same (but thinner in mass) as his 2-3 year old sets were.

Remind you of anyone? LOL. We all do the same thing, start small then hit our Prime where we are at our Peak and hold it for several years then start to wear down slowly at first then quite often rapidly. I've watch 2 people meet their End of Days at home because they didn't want to die in a hospital or nursing home. In the end we become like the babies we once were where someone needs to take complete care of us. Deer are no different.

 

[Troubled Trees]

The State Conservation Department (in NY it's DEC) is supposed to set season dates to not conflict with these kind of things. We all know that there are a lot of outside (monetary) contributing factors that manipulate their decisions, but in my experience in this kind of research a fawn can easily survive on it's own 60 days after birth. That seems reasonable since we are still a long way away from colder temperatures and food sources are very abundant. Our deer season starts October 1st here in NY, I start seeing fawns as early as May and fawn drop is over by the beginning of June.That puts our deer season starting roughly 120 days after they the last fawns were born, so sure you will see them together until the rut and sometimes after but it isn't a necessity, more of by choice.
When the weather starts getting really cold and the snow starts piling up, (muzzleloader season for me) so does the food sources. That is when deer in my area start herding up and it isn't uncommon to see 5-6 or even 10-15 deer (doe and fawns) traveling together. Obviously the longer a fawn hangs around it's mother, the more time it has to learn things but a fawn doesn't need milk from mom at around 60 days old.
Reading this thread it sounds more like peoples feelings get in the way, and there's nothing wrong with that, it is your choice to shoot whatever you'd like to put your tag on. You will never see me shame even experienced hunters for taking a spike, Lord knows I have taken my share. Today I target mature deer but I would be a hypocrite if I shamed anyone for taking a young deer, even a fawn because there were years I wouldn't have had any venison in my freezer if I didn't harvest a fawn or 2 in my younger years. Not everyone has the time to put in to hold out for big bucks, not everyone has private land to hunt either. State land during Orange Army season here in NY is tough to find anything brown during daylight, that is just being honest.

 

[Troubled Trees]

I had to look after making that comment to be sure I remembered correctly.
https://www.qdma.com/shoot-doe-fawns/

As far as better to fill your doe tags early or late is more of a preference in my humble opinion. I wait till after the rut is over to take does but that is my preference. The does walking past my stand before the rut are the same does that will be one day dragging a buck by my stands. Taking a doe late season means that she is 95% of the time pregnant but it also means 95% of the does got bred so any deer you shoot prior to the rut is a doe that would have been pregnant so Tomato Tomato there in my opinion.

 

[Cedar Ridge]

The State Conservation Department (in NY it's DEC) is supposed to set season dates to not conflict with these kind of things. We all know that there are a lot of outside (monetary) contributing factors that manipulate their decisions, but in my experience in this kind of research a fawn can easily survive on it's own 60 days after birth. That seems reasonable since we are still a long way away from colder temperatures and food sources are very abundant. Our deer season starts October 1st here in NY, I start seeing fawns as early as May and fawn drop is over by the beginning of June.That puts our deer season starting roughly 120 days after they the last fawns were born, so sure you will see them together until the rut and sometimes after but it isn't a necessity, more of by choice.
When the weather starts getting really cold and the snow starts piling up, (muzzleloader season for me) so does the food sources. That is when deer in my area start herding up and it isn't uncommon to see 5-6 or even 10-15 deer (doe and fawns) traveling together. Obviously the longer a fawn hangs around it's mother, the more time it has to learn things but a fawn doesn't need milk from mom at around 60 days old.
Reading this thread it sounds more like peoples feelings get in the way, and there's nothing wrong with that, it is your choice to shoot whatever you'd like to put your tag on. You will never see me shame even experienced hunters for taking a spike, Lord knows I have taken my share. Today I target mature deer but I would be a hypocrite if I shamed anyone for taking a young deer, even a fawn because there were years I wouldn't have had any venison in my freezer if I didn't harvest a fawn or 2 in my younger years. Not everyone has the time to put in to hold out for big bucks, not everyone has private land to hunt either. State land during Orange Army season here in NY is tough to find anything brown during daylight, that is just being honest.

I haven’t gone back and read every post but I rarely if ever see anyone in this group shaming someone. What I’ve seen is many saying it’s not for them and some saying they see no issue with it. As long as its legal, I don’t think most folks on here have an issue with it. It’s a personal preference for me but I don’t have an issue with someone else firing away if that’s what they prefer to do.

 

[Troubled Trees]

I haven’t gone back and read every post but I rarely if ever see anyone in this group shaming someone. What I’ve seen is many saying it’s not for them and some saying they see no issue with it. As long as its legal, I don’t think most folks on here have an issue with it. It’s a personal preference for me but I don’t have an issue with someone else firing away if that’s what they prefer to do.

Absolutely, I haven't seen it here either bud, I didn't mean to imply it.

 

[HuronMtn]

Where I live and hunt, Michigan's Upper Peninsula, the deer have tough winters and plenty of predators to keep their numbers down. So I have chosen to always pass on a doe with her young to do my part to help keep their numbers up.

 

[Brow_Tine]

I have always givin a pass to that situation and enjoy for what it is at that moment. The dark side of me chuckles a little bit that they did not sense the reaping death that I could have brought down on them
Our doe population in my area is pretty good right now and there will be a good management doe or 2 come up during the season

 

[dogghr]

I guess I’m heartless. I determine each year how many road kill, predator kill, and previous years survival and make educated guess IF does will be shot.
If I’m hunting doe, I’ve certainly shot a doe and then her female fawn and put both in the freezer. Good eating and no regrets by me. To each their own.


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[weekender21]

I had to make the call a few times this week. I ended up shooting a dry doe but only because the does with fawns I had actual shots at had smaller fawns sporting a few spots. Those fawns will be potential target animals by late season.


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[Drycreek]

I don’t shoot fawns, but mainly because there’s not enough meat on them. I have shot some does that I thought were a helluva lot bigger than they turned out to be though.......

 

[410001661]

If I see a doe/fawn it walks......just a camp rule we have and follow.