Shooting doe with fawns

[Chainsaw]

Except during the rut it is very rare to see a doe without fawns here. So if we are shooting does that year early season is when it is done and not in our plots that are setup to shoot bucks. And about all the does that we shoot have young of the year with them. It is the only way we can reduce the herd as it is needed.
If a giant older doe is leading a herd of does and fawns the older leader doe gets a pass figuring that she is the most experienced and will help get the others around predators.

 

[Drycreek]

It’s usually not a problem here if you don’t shoot the first one you see. Coyotes eat so damn many of our fawns very rarely do you see a doe with twins make it through September with both in tow, and lots of does will have no fawns going into general season. I video them at my mineral sites all spring and into the summer and I see does with twins, then one, then none. Some of them I can tell apart because of light patches of hair, split ears or other things.

Edit to add that my son and I don’t shoot does on my 80 here at home, nor do I and a buddy on our lease, but the other three members will if they can. I usually shoot a doe on another place I hunt that has more deer than we do, and hardly anyone else does. I try my best to shoot one with no fawn.

 

[THE LLC]

I used to shoot them. Now I shoot single does and doe fawns. Leave the experienced moms.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I guess I've never really thought about it. It's been so damn long since I've killed a deer, I never really had to decide. I did get one with a bow a couple years back visiting a place other than my own. On my place, I've never pulled the trigger, despite lots of opportunity.

I guess I'd not shoot a successful doe. I'd rather have the yearling doe that is likely tagging along with the alpha and fawns.

***That being said, I'm also not drowning in deer or running out of fall food anymore.

 

[weekender21]

I've passed does with fawns an have killed does with fawns. I mentioned something to my regional biologist and he said the season opener (early Sept. in my area) was set with fawn survivability in mind. Obviously matriarch does are teaching their fawns something until they meet their own fate. I'd still prefer not to shoot a doe with a fawn during early season but I'm not making that a hard rule for me personally. I'm an archery only nerd so 15 yards shots don't come all that often. Realistically, that doe fawn is on the menu during late season.

 

[Drycreek]

A few years back I invited a buddy to hunt with me on the place I sold a couple years ago. I told him that I’d sit with him to make sure he killed the right one. We sat until two does and a pair of fawns came out, and I told him to hold off and I’d figure out who the twins belonged to. So, after about 15 minutes of watching them in my food plot I decided that they belonged to the older doe. I told him to shoot the yearling doe and he did. Well, y’all probably know how that turned out. Sure enough, the twins hung around looking at their dead mother until we got out of the stand. That hurt my feelings pretty bad and I watched those twins like they were my own until late season. I even went so far as to hunt where I thought I would see them just to keep an eye on them. One morning they were feeding at a small kill plot where I was bowhunting when a 2 year old spike and a yearling 4 point came in. The spike was chasing the little doe around and around, which aggravated me. He then made a run at the little button buck and tried to hook him. Well, that was enough, I ran a Striker through his heart and ate him ! My twins stayed safe at least until I could no longer recognize them.

 

[DocHolladay]

I tend to not shoot a doe with fawns, but if I do, they are big enough and don’t have spots. They should be old enough and wise enough to make it on their own. I prefer shooting does over bucks anyway. Have you hunted an old doe like you have a buck? They’ll get ya almost every time.

The state says that our doe population is to high in my area and we can shoot 3 doe per day. That’s all season long, whatever weapon you choose that’s legal, and have at it. I typically shoot a doe or two, every couple of years lately. I haven’t killed a buck in a while. I used to shoot 6 deer a year for my needs, meat wise.


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[K2Prime]

I can’t seem to work myself up to shoot a doe anymore. I once shot a doe that ran by me which I thought was alone and then after the shot the fawn came and bleated for its mom for like 10 minutes straight. I now don’t plant any summer time food on property, only fall forage. which helps decrease the deer numbers just fine. Neighbors can shoot all the does they want, I don’t care.


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[weekender21]

I guess waiting until late season to kill your does solves some of the problems mentioned above. In states that allow you to kill more than one deer/day, you could shoot the doe and the "fawn" in late season.

 

[SwampCat]

I try to only kill a barren doe. We dont have a problem with too many deer. We dont what to kill our does that are producing the fawns.

 

[PineSapJunky]

I was always told by a biologist that the quickest way to get a population under control is to kill does in the late season after the rut. In areas with good nutrition you'll likely be taken out 3 deer with one shot. If you want to increase your population shoot doe fawns or older does without fawns. There's also the debate by killing doe fawns you decrease the amount of spikes in the area since for whatever reason bred doe fawns seem to have a higher rate of single bucks than anything else. And within that first year of nutrition that doe fawn has a harder time producing quality milk for said button buck thus putting him behind nutritionally its first year. But that's all up for debate. Nothing wrong genetically just lacking quality nutrition its first year running around

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[BradB]

Never ever ever again. Did I say NEVER.Several years ago I shot a doe with a yearling early and watched that darn baby try to wake up his momma all evening.It would wander off, bawl and then come running back nudging her to get up.I will admit it, I am a wuss take away my man card, but I will never watch that again.Actually, I doubt I will ever shoot a doe again and I have about a bazillion of them.If I need freezer meat I just invite someone over to shoot one on halves.

 

[Baker]

Hurricane has me inside allowing a little time to post. Doe harvest is a critical component of deer mgt.that can vary from year to year and place to place.

In a healthy herd essentially every doe gets bred. Depending on how the season correlates to breeding/fawning has a lot to do with seeing the fawns with their mother or even still nursing. Here in La. it is also common for an early born fawn to get bred in its first year producing a very late born fawn. If does aren't conceiving and carrying fawns into the season there are bigger problems in the herd.

So, in the south at least, in a healthy herd any doe shot should have a fawn wether with the doe or not. However numerous scientific studies show the fawn still has a high probability to survive frequently being accepted by other doe groups. The need to nurse is gone by time season rolls around.

We try to remove as many does as we can as early as we can to take pressure off the habitat. Also this tightens the ratio a bit before the rut which makes the hunting more fun. Generally we shoot the first doe that presents itself as they become the smartest animal in the world with pressure. There have been times though when we focused on younger does leaving the older ones more apt to have twins with better survival hence recruitment. We also remove a certain number of female fawns as part of the overall doe harvest, again leaving more mature does to enhance recruitment.

With the nutritional plane high we have very few spikes

 

[Baker]

Kinda weird the line going thru the post??

 

[deer patch]

Baker...You care to go into details about spike management? I’m assuming that if you had several spikes that you would harvest them?

 

[Baker]

Baker...You care to go into details about spike management? I’m assuming that if you had several spikes that you would harvest them?

Nope,I don't remove any deer before 4 and certainly don't shoot spikes. Many reasons why you might have a spike. Late born fawn. Nutritional deficit. Sick mother. Triplets.The list is lengthy. Numerous studies showing by age 3-4 spikes catch up and equal there age cohorts in antler growth. i focus on nutrition and age with little thought to genetics.

A much easier environment to view the spike issue is deep South Texas/Northern Mexico. In years of intense drought the % of spikes in the cohort of 1 yr olds is very high. By 4 or 5 everything is back to normal top end production. Age is always your friend!

 

[PineSapJunky]

Baker...You care to go into details about spike management? I’m assuming that if you had several spikes that you would harvest them?

I'm going to go out on a limb for Baker. The reason why he doesn't have issue with spikes is because all of his does are bred in a pretty tight window coupled with an absurd amount of quality nutrition available to the mom and the button buck thus throwing that fawn way ahead of most buck fawns that we would have on our farms. IF.....IF Baker was to "cull" a young buck it would because he falls within the lowest percentile for his age class. Only doing so to free up added nutrition and decrease breeding competition later on. I also imagine on Baker's farms the younger the deer the more criteria it must meet to be "culled"



Most yearlings don't stay on your place. It's called yearling dispersal. But in the end. Feed them and let them grow. And when I say feed them I mean "for years not just corn and green grass"

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[Baker]

I'm going to go out on a limb for Baker. The reason why he doesn't have issue with spikes is because all of his does are bred in a pretty tight window coupled with an absurd amount of quality nutrition available to the mom and the button buck thus throwing that fawn way ahead of most buck fawns that we would have on our farms. IF.....IF Baker was to "cull" a young buck it would because he falls within the lowest percentile for his age class. Only doing so to free up added nutrition and decrease breeding competition later on. I also imagine on Baker's farms the younger the deer the more criteria it must meet to be "culled"



Most yearlings don't stay on your place. It's called yearling dispersal. But in the end. Feed them and let them grow. And when I say feed them I mean "for years not just corn and green grass"

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Well said, though I don't 'cull' young bucks at all.

 

[PineSapJunky]

Well said, though I don't 'cull' young bucks at all.

I figured that. But IF.....IF you ever did the criteria would be insane I have no doubt. I use A LOT of your management laws on my own farm. Feed them, let them grow.....enjoy life.

FYI.....I don't believe in the word "cull". In my neck of the woods it's just an excuse for blood lust.

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[shawn cox]

I figured that. But IF.....IF you ever did the criteria would be insane I have no doubt. I use A LOT of your management laws on my own farm. Feed them, let them grow.....enjoy life.

FYI.....I don't believe in the word "cull". In my neck of the woods it's just an excuse for blood lust.

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you are exactly right. I know down here in Georgia the people who use the word "cull buck" just use it as an excuse of why their blood lust or ego led them to shoot the buck. I trophy manage my place. I don't have any problem with hunters shooting young deer if that is within their rules and that's what they want to do. The reason for hunting is to have a good time. My hunters know in advance what our goals are to harvesting bucks. We have a minimum age of 4-1/2 years old on bucks. We will always have the outlier and have a wanderer come in during the rut and I ask the hunters to use their best judgement. In a couple weeks I will be sending out pictures of the resident bucks that will be shooters by our standards this year so that they can get familiar with them and will have a good idea of what buck they are looking at in snap situations. I also don't do "cull bucks" and have had to get rid of a member because every buck that was a spike or had a antler that was damaged from injury or pedicle damage he would call it a cull and asked if he could shoot it. I will put a buck on the harvest list if he has some type of antler deformity for multiple years and shows no sign of growing out of it and it becomes a threat to injure or kill other bucks from fighting. To meet that criteria I have to have at least a two year history with the buck. We have shot several deer in the past (none under 3 years old) that did not have any brow tines because even though we can't control genetics we have the chance to make some difference in the deer herd over time and influence it in a general direction according to our goals. We have increased the age structure in our herd greatly over the last 4 years. I do feed a lot of protein and if a buck shows no signs of growing out of deformity we will harvest because there is no reason to justify spending money feeding that one, it will make room for another with hopefully some potential on the property.