Seed drill recommendations?

[Paradise725]

My hunting partner is looking to buy a seed drill but is on a budget. He'd like to keep it under $10k and closer to $5k would be ideal. Is that even feasible? He wants a fairly small one that can be run on a 30hp tractor. Does anyone have any advice?


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[Brokenbear]

You do not say no-till or a regular drill which would require some ground prep ...there are lots of John Deere "VanBrunt" drills that will do a fine job in ground barely worked ...and do reasonably well even in trashy ground such as following up bush hogged and lightly disced corn with say soybeans for example ...these drills can be found for $1000 or less and even $4-$500 if you are in the right place/right time ...I have a 12' in great shape I bought 5/6 years ago ...$350 (not for sale)

Lots of guys get tractor / equipment fever ...for Pete's sake it's a flaming food plot ...not a living ...I have a 40HP 4WD diesel new Holland tractor,8'disc,7'bush hog.12' drill and a 2 row ford 309 planter ...I plant 20+ acres of food plots on our 220AC hardwood tree farm ...managed strictly for deer ....anyhow ...by biding my time and striking while the iron is hot I have less $$ in my whole set up than some guys will spend on ONE piece of equipment ...LOL!!!!!

Good Luck and Merry CHRISTmas!

Bear

 

[Brokenbear]

https://www.fastline.com/v100/John-...ail-54e4d3a5-1d56-49bb-ac22-442b02104c5a.aspx

 

[Paradise725]

You do not say no-till or a regular drill which would require some ground prep ...there are lots of John Deere "VanBrunt" drills that will do a fine job in ground barely worked ...and do reasonably well even in trashy ground such as following up bush hogged and lightly disced corn with say soybeans for example ...these drills can be found for $1000 or less and even $4-$500 if you are in the right place/right time ...I have a 12' in great shape I bought 5/6 years ago ...$350 (not for sale)

Lots of guys get tractor / equipment fever ...for Pete's sake it's a flaming food plot ...not a living ...I have a 40HP 4WD diesel new Holland tractor,8'disc,7'bush hog.12' drill and a 2 row ford 309 planter ...I plant 20+ acres of food plots on our 220AC hardwood tree farm ...managed strictly for deer ....anyhow ...by biding my time and striking while the iron is hot I have less $$ in my whole set up than some guys will spend on ONE piece of equipment ...LOL!!!!!

Good Luck and Merry CHRISTmas!

Bear

Thanks, I should have specified. He is looking for a no-till drill. We are guys in our 30's with families and sparse free time so our thought is that going no-till will save us a good deal of time on a tractor pulling a disc and will be better for the soil.


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[Brokenbear]

Understand no-til but you may want to review a couple of problems you may want to think about ....your tractor may be a bit short in the horsepower and weight departments ...I suggest you look at some current manufacturers of small no-til drills and their respective factory specs as to tractor size and horse power ...it takes Horses to pull multiple knives PROPERLY thru unbroken ground ....It takes weight to KEEP those knives in the ground properly (not raise up on hard pan dirt or debris for example) Also ...please don't put a small tractor with a heavy lift load in hills

I don't know if the small drills even come other than 3 point mount ...as opposed to something with wheels and hyd cylinder(s) to lift
Plus I don't think there are a lot of 30HP tractors with rear couplers

Another thought ...farmers around here have somewhat withdrawn from no-til due to gradual loss of soil tilth ...the incorporating of debris back into the soil for nutrients and soil looseness ...also ..and this depends on your soil but application of lime can only really accomplish it's mission by being incorporated into the ground by plow/disc.chisel ...this situation really repeats it's self often if you are working up ground that has been in CRP as we find that ground to go back into respectable production take lime lime lime

Just some thoughts ...soil samples and your local extension agent are your best bet to source and ID your soil type and it's mineral needs

Bear

 

[swat1018]

Understand no-til but you may want to review a couple of problems you may want to think about ....your tractor may be a bit short in the horsepower and weight departments ...I suggest you look at some current manufacturers of small no-til drills and their respective factory specs as to tractor size and horse power ...it takes Horses to pull multiple knives PROPERLY thru unbroken ground ....It takes weight to KEEP those knives in the ground properly (not raise up on hard pan dirt or debris for example) Also ...please don't put a small tractor with a heavy lift load in hills

I don't know if the small drills even come other than 3 point mount ...as opposed to something with wheels and hyd cylinder(s) to lift
Plus I don't think there are a lot of 30HP tractors with rear couplers

Another thought ...farmers around here have somewhat withdrawn from no-til due to gradual loss of soil tilth ...the incorporating of debris back into the soil for nutrients and soil looseness ...also ..and this depends on your soil but application of lime can only really accomplish it's mission by being incorporated into the ground by plow/disc.chisel ...this situation really repeats it's self often if you are working up ground that has been in CRP as we find that ground to go back into respectable production take lime lime lime

Just some thoughts ...soil samples and your local extension agent are your best bet to source and ID your soil type and it's mineral needs

Bear

Lots of bad advice there......

 

[Paradise725]

Thanks for the great info, Bear. Lots to think about! I said 30hp because that's what my friend's FIL's tractor is, but I've got a 40hp that has a coupler I know because I've used a no-till drill with it before. I didn't think about the bigger hp / heavier tractor being needed just to get the knives to the correct depth. We are fairly experienced in conventional tillage practices but with only one tractor on our farm to do 8 plots totaling 8 acres, we really stretched our limits this year and truly spent more time than we wanted to just planting plots. Thanks again.


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[Brokenbear]

Lots of bad advice there......

Well swat ...what part is wrong
that any size no-til drill that is not a toy is heavy ...or maybe ....
don't overload a tractor especially in hills
or ........maybe you have a cannon that shoots lime in the ground ...or ....
suddenly you have nice loose dirt from repeated no-til ...OR .....
maybe you can tell all of us your experience of reclaiming CRP ground after the contract years of burns and everything else that runs the soil to crap
The smallest Land Pride 7 row no-Til weighs 1840 lbs loaded ...the factory says no less than 35 horses ...perhaps my calling 30 HP small
........A Kobota B3350HSD ..a 33HP tractor weighs 1896 pounds ...I believe with a 1840 pound no-til attached it would depend on whether you were gong up hill or down hill as to whether the tractor or the or the drill would be on the ground!

And finally ...If you would have read my comments in their entirety ...you would have noted that I directed directed the OP to talk with his extension agent as well as to soil sample to determine his soil type to establish what his specific equipment needs really are.

So what part is bad advice Butter Cup?

Bear

 

[Smallplot]

or ........maybe you have a cannon that shoots lime in the ground ...or ....
suddenly you have nice loose dirt from repeated no-til ...OR .....
maybe you can tell all of us your experience of reclaiming CRP ground after the contract years of burns and everything else that runs the soil to crap


So what part is bad advice Butter Cup?

Bear

Lime will work its way into the soil so no cannon is needed.

Secondly the soil is likely more healthy following a long term CRP crop than conventional tillage and incorporating fertilizer each year. Healthy soils will grow better crops than unhealthy soils on less fertilization requirements.



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[JDunham]

For what you are describing I would look at the Kasco units. They are in your price range but I am guessing the 40HP will be somewhere close to the tractor you need. The guys who own them seem to like them. The 606NT Great Plains or Lands Pride units require 44HP minimum I believe and are over your $10,000 budget. Even the used are often over that and are extremely hard to find. They are very nice units though and would do what you are looking to do.
We went to primarily No-till several years ago and it has saved us time in my opinion. I rent a Great Plains drill from our Soil Conservation Office but have been planning to purchase one. 1 kid in College and another almost there has taken priority for the time being.

 

[Brokenbear]

Lime will work its way into the soil so no cannon is needed.

Secondly the soil is likely more healthy following a long term CRP crop than conventional tillage and incorporating fertilizer each year. Healthy soils will grow better crops than unhealthy soils on less fertilization requirements.



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Dan
I won't argue that in time lime will infact eventually leech into the ground ...what hasn't washed away that is ...
There is a place for no till....... 35% of US crop land is no till ...I know that many acres listed as no till are in fact limited till where the field has been worked but only 2-3" prior to a no till run thru it to plant
BUT granted some is hill ground acreage where no till shines as a soil conservation activity

FROM a production stand point even the most diehard advocates admit to better production and less chemicals fighting the pesky little critters that thrive in repeated no till ground

So to me calling no tilled ground that eventually require more chemicals as creatures like wire worm start to propagate vs tilled ground that the tillage does the lions share of the pest/weed control is a coin toss for me ...on level ground that is

On the second of your points ...I again remind all that I said to the OP to soil sample and engage the county extension agent as to soil type and what is in fact ACTUALLY working in his area

With that said ...recovering CRP ground to AG production is based on:
SOIL TYPE
LENGTH OF CRP CONTRACT
TYPES OF PLANTINGS REQUIRED AT TIME OF ADMISSION TO CRP
CONTRACT REQUIREMENTS METHODS USED> BURN, DISC, CHEMICAL OR COMBINATIONS THERE OF

Some combinations of the above are unbelievably difficult to get re-balanced and get productive again

to me every part of this great nation has it's own mix of soil type, water availability, growing season length, land lay,,,,,etc etc
and just sometimes cannot be painted with one broad brush stroke

You sir are a very good influence on the membership of this forum and we all thank you for your unselfish contributions and I in no way am trying to call foul or act all knowingly ...just saying where the ground lays sets the rules under which ground has to be managed

Bear

 

[Smallplot]

Dan
I won't argue that in time lime will infact eventually leech into the ground ...what hasn't washed away that is ...
There is a place for no till....... 35% of US crop land is no till ...I know that many acres listed as no till are in fact limited till where the field has been worked but only 2-3" prior to a no till run thru it to plant
BUT granted some is hill ground acreage where no till shines as a soil conservation activity

FROM a production stand point even the most diehard advocates admit to better production and less chemicals fighting the pesky little critters that thrive in repeated no till ground

So to me calling no tilled ground that eventually require more chemicals as creatures like wire worm start to propagate vs tilled ground that the tillage does the lions share of the pest/weed control is a coin toss for me ...on level ground that is

On the second of your points ...I again remind all that I said to the OP to soil sample and engage the county extension agent as to soil type and what is in fact ACTUALLY working in his area

With that said ...recovering CRP ground to AG production is based on:
SOIL TYPE
LENGTH OF CRP CONTRACT
TYPES OF PLANTINGS REQUIRED AT TIME OF ADMISSION TO CRP
CONTRACT REQUIREMENTS METHODS USED> BURN, DISC, CHEMICAL OR COMBINATIONS THERE OF

Some combinations of the above are unbelievably difficult to get re-balanced and get productive again

to me every part of this great nation has it's own mix of soil type, water availability, growing season length, land lay,,,,,etc etc
and just sometimes cannot be painted with one broad brush stroke

You sir are a very good influence on the membership of this forum and we all thank you for your unselfish contributions and I in no way am trying to call foul or act all knowingly ...just saying where the ground lays sets the rules under which ground has to be managed

Bear

And just a brief reminder that at one time everyone thought they needed to moldboard plow and look what that brought to our soils. Lots of people have tried notill and not learned enough about it to really get the most out of planting such. It really is a different animal that consists of more than just putting seed in the ground, especially when the bills are paid through harvested yields. Many have placed blame on the notill system besides their own knowledge base of implementing a notill system.

One can get accurate soil classifications for their area by means of looking on the net, I have never had a soil test return what type of soil it is. As far as soil tests, they don't really tell anything, plant tissue tests will actually tell how your soil is feeding your plants. Not that I am saying everyone needs to run out and get plant tissue tests, but they are a better measure of how nutrients are feeding plants and what is lacking.

I am amused at some thought processes that just stipulate lime and fertilizer. When in fact there are vast areas on everyone's property that grow plants well without any inputs. Yes we are talking about non crop land but still how many failed years have been observed in areas other than cropland?


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[swat1018]

Lime will work its way into the soil so no cannon is needed.

Secondly the soil is likely more healthy following a long term CRP crop than conventional tillage and incorporating fertilizer each year. Healthy soils will grow better crops than unhealthy soils on less fertilization requirements.

And if you want to talk PRODUCTION AG, most don't no-till as efficiently as food plotters. Even a production guy that no-tills, rarely keeps his soil covered year around, with a cover crop. Most food plotters do strive to have something in the ground 365 for the deer, at least on the level we are talking here.



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SSSSHHHHHHHHH, don't tell!

As far as the tractor size, 30HP is probably too small for a GP or Landpride, like mine. But, I think Kasco makes some that would work. Like everything else, no-till comes with it's own challenges. But for someone like me and you with time constraints, it's the way to go.

 

[MN Slick]

I've used a 4' Kasco Versa drill the last 2 seasons. Ran it behind a 4 wheeler the first year and with a 32 HP tractor this season using the 3 point. Learning curve for sure but my plots have come out very nice. I've planted Lick Creek's brassica mix and his fall mix with it. Way overkill for my current acreage but I plan to up my scale and bought it used for a price I couldn't pass up.

Part of my plot is on a side hill so I'm finding it tough to get it leveled properly. The drill swings out to the side a bit on the 3 point while planting the side hill so I need to experiment a bit more on leveling and reduce the 3 point swing. Cultipacker does not do a very good job of closing the trench/covering the seed but germination has been solid. I've been planting into sprayed debris and I'm not sure this is the best method as debris builds up in front of the cultipacker and causes it to stop rolling so the seed stops metering. Also the seed tubes clog often so there is a lot of jumping off to unclog the tubes. Next year I'm going to mow the plot very short a week or so before planting and drill through the green vegetation hoping I'll get less build up and tube clogging then spray immdediately after planting.

Side Note: The sucker is obviously quite heavy and the weight is distributed much different than my brush cutter. First time I drove my tractor onto my trailer with the drill the weight of the tractor/drill actually lifted the back end of my truck off the ground with the tractor wheels just onto the trailer causing the truck, trailer, and tractor/drill to start rolling down the hill towards a wooded ditch. I leaped off the tractor sprinted to the truck and got it stopped. Thought for sure the whole works was heading into the wooded ditch. A quick change of my skivvies and I was back to work!!!

 

[swat1018]

I've used a 4' Kasco Versa drill the last 2 seasons. Ran it behind a 4 wheeler the first year and with a 32 HP tractor this season using the 3 point. Learning curve for sure but my plots have come out very nice. I've planted Lick Creek's brassica mix and his fall mix with it. Way overkill for my current acreage but I plan to up my scale and bought it used for a price I couldn't pass up.

Part of my plot is on a side hill so I'm finding it tough to get it leveled properly. The drill swings out to the side a bit on the 3 point while planting the side hill so I need to experiment a bit more on leveling and reduce the 3 point swing. Cultipacker does not do a very good job of closing the trench/covering the seed but germination has been solid. I've been planting into sprayed debris and I'm not sure this is the best method as debris builds up in front of the cultipacker and causes it to stop rolling so the seed stops metering. Also the seed tubes clog often so there is a lot of jumping off to unclog the tubes. Next year I'm going to mow the plot very short a week or so before planting and drill through the green vegetation hoping I'll get less build up and tube clogging then spray immdediately after planting.

Side Note: The sucker is obviously quite heavy and the weight is distributed much different than my brush cutter. First time I drove my tractor onto my trailer with the drill the weight of the tractor/drill actually lifted the back end of my truck off the ground with the tractor wheels just onto the trailer causing the truck, trailer, and tractor/drill to start rolling down the hill towards a wooded ditch. I leaped off the tractor sprinted to the truck and got it stopped. Thought for sure the whole works was heading into the wooded ditch. A quick change of my skivvies and I was back to work!!!

Dealing with residue is definitely a challenge of no-till. Problem with mowing is you can "hairpin" some of the cut stuff. You'll figure out tricks for your drill as you go, I'm still learning on mine after 3-4 years.

 

[Smallplot]

Dealing with residue is definitely a challenge of no-till. Problem with mowing is you can "hairpin" some of the cut stuff. You'll figure out tricks for your drill as you go, I'm still learning on mine after 3-4 years.

Hair-pinning is not necessarily an issue of too much residue. Making sure cutting blades are sharp is first, next would be making sure the cut vegetation is either fresh cut (green) or completely dead and dry all the way through. Last tip is watch out for drilling into conditions where the soil is too wet. Any or all of these issues can lead to hair-pinning even with a regular full fledged no-till drill with coulters. I have planted into some very thick vegetation, both standing and cut, with success. I have also tried to push the planting date and had not so good luck especially where soil moisture is above or below ideal.

I understand my Great Plains no-till drill will handle heavier trash than say a Kasco but then again heavy trash is exactly what my Great Plains was designed to tackle. Even considering how trash flows between or around contact points, the above mentioned tips are invaluable in a consistent no-till operation. We could get into cutters opening, separating, drops seed, and fills back in compared to a single blade that lifts, pushed to the side, drops seed, and fills back in but there is a moisture level which is ideal for each and too moist is not good for either.

Hopefully keeping these points in mind will help to avoid challenges associated with no-till.

 

[swat1018]

Hair-pinning is not necessarily an issue of too much residue. Making sure cutting blades are sharp is first, next would be making sure the cut vegetation is either fresh cut (green) or completely dead and dry all the way through. Last tip is watch out for drilling into conditions where the soil is too wet. Any or all of these issues can lead to hair-pinning even with a regular full fledged no-till drill with coulters. I have planted into some very thick vegetation, both standing and cut, with success. I have also tried to push the planting date and had not so good luck especially where soil moisture is above or below ideal.

I understand my Great Plains no-till drill will handle heavier trash than say a Kasco but then again heavy trash is exactly what my Great Plains was designed to tackle. Even considering how trash flows between or around contact points, the above mentioned tips are invaluable in a consistent no-till operation. We could get into cutters opening, separating, drops seed, and fills back in compared to a single blade that lifts, pushed to the side, drops seed, and fills back in but there is a moisture level which is ideal for each and too moist is not good for either.

Hopefully keeping these points in mind will help to avoid challenges associated with no-till.

I agree. I've never had any hairpinning either with my GP. It kind of raised a red flag when he said mow a week before. I should have elaborated.

 

[ChiggerBait725]

Would someone please explain what hair-pinning is? Thanks in advance!

 

[Smallplot]

Would someone please explain what hair-pinning is? Thanks in advance!

hair pinning is when the vegetation sitting on top of the ground is not cut, but pushed into the planting furrow. This cuts down on seed to soil contact and can leave the furrow open to dry out quicker allowing the new roots to dry out and die.

 

[MN Slick]

Dealing with residue is definitely a challenge of no-till. Problem with mowing is you can "hairpin" some of the cut stuff. You'll figure out tricks for your drill as you go, I'm still learning on mine after 3-4 years.

Would mowing a 2 to 3 weeks before planting allow the residue to break down negating the hairpin effect? Thanks