Throw and Mow Advice

D

Dmumford

New Member
Due to timing and being two hours away, I am trying to plant a food plot via throw and mow method two weekends back to back. Need some advice on my best option. The field has been sprayed once in the summer. My current plan:
-mow field on highest setting
-spray field again
-go back next weeeknd and broadcast seed then mow over again to cover seed with thatch

Anyone see any issues with this or think this will work? I’ve never tried the throw and mow method but I feel like mowing after throwing the seed will just blow the seed out of the field. I’ll be mowing with a zero turn mower. Any help or tips is appreciated!
 
I do a lot of T&M and variations. I find a cultipacker helps quite a bit. I typically do it all in one day. I will often broadcast seed in the morning. I'll then either mow and cultipack or just cultipack depending on the density of the weeds. My final step is spraying glyphosate or glufosinate I like to rotate them to avoid resistance. Both require the plant to be green and actively growing and don't hurt the seed.

I probably would not use a zero turn for field mowing. Most don't allow the blades to be set very high as they are for lawns. I'd use the highest setting if you do use one.
 
yoderjac said:
I do a lot of T&M and variations. I find a cultipacker helps quite a bit. I typically do it all in one day. I will often broadcast seed in the morning. I'll then either mow and cultipack or just cultipack depending on the density of the weeds. My final step is spraying glyphosate or glufosinate I like to rotate them to avoid resistance. Both require the plant to be green and actively growing and don't hurt the seed.

I probably would not use a zero turn for field mowing. Most don't allow the blades to be set very high as they are for lawns. I'd use the highest setting if you do use one.
Click to expand...
When you broadcast your seed is it mainly dirt? Or is there some thatch on the ground?
 
Dmumford said:
When you broadcast your seed is it mainly dirt? Or is there some thatch on the ground?
Click to expand...
I never want to see bare ground. Even when I have pretty heavy field of weeds and broadcast into it, the seed falls to the ground. Cultipacking or mowing further agitates the seed and gravity brings it to the ground. Cultipacking improves seed/soil contact, even under the thatch.

T&M and its variations can take some time to get the hang of. There is no one formula that works best everywhere. Different soil types and thatch levels play a role. Avoiding tillage is one of the best long-term things you can do for your soils.

Unless you have a specific problematic noxious weed that is taking over the field, don't worry about weedy fields after you plant. I like a mix of weeds in my food plots, especially for summer plots. Many broadleaf weeds are as good or better deer food than the crops we plant. I've become very weed tolerant over time.

I'm actually beginning the process of replacing a portion of our food plots with weed management fields.

Best of luck!
 
Dmumford said:
Due to timing and being two hours away, I am trying to plant a food plot via throw and mow method two weekends back to back. Need some advice on my best option. The field has been sprayed once in the summer. My current plan:
-mow field on highest setting
-spray field again
-go back next weeeknd and broadcast seed then mow over again to cover seed with thatch

Anyone see any issues with this or think this will work? I’ve never tried the throw and mow method but I feel like mowing after throwing the seed will just blow the seed out of the field. I’ll be mowing with a zero turn mower. Any help or tips is appreciated!
Click to expand...

My advice is from actual experience in what you are talking about doing. I am now successfully putting in all my food plots with a big Zero Turn mower. I understand your concerns about blowing the seed out of the field. I'm going to give you some fine tuning tips below that no one ever mentions:

1. When you spread the seed, make sure to do it at a time when the thatch is completely dry. By doing that you will be more assured that tiny seed like chicory and clover will fall completely to the ground without sticking up high to the thatch due to moisture.

2. If you can then drive over the plot in circles with a mower or a pickup truck for a few minutes, that will also help to work the seed down as low as possible. This helps to alleviate your concern of blowing the seed away.

3. You can mow the thatch down on the seed immediately after spreading them and be successful; however, I have learned that it is even better to wait a few days between spreading the seed and mowing down the thatch. This is especially true if you can get a rain between the two events. The rain washes the seed down even further and helps to keep your concern of blowing the seed away to be a non-issue. Actually, I think it is better for the thatch to be a little moist when mowing it down on the seed. The moisture helps "stick" the seed to the ground and low part of the thatch.

Best wishes.

chicory pic.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Native Hunter said:
My advice is from actual experience in what you are talking about doing. I am now successfully putting in all my food plots with a big Zero Turn mower. I understand your concerns about blowing the seed out of the field. I'm going to give you some fine tuning tips below that no one ever mentions:

1. When you spread the seed, make sure to do it at a time when the thatch is completely dry. By doing that you will be more assured that tiny seed like chicory and clover will fall completely to the ground without sticking up high to the thatch due to moisture.

2. If you can then drive over the plot in circles with a mower or a pickup truck for a few minutes, that will also help to work the seed down as low as possible. This helps to alleviate your concern of blowing the seed away.

3. You can mow the thatch down on the seed immediately after spreading them and be successful; however, I have learned that it is even better to wait a few days between spreading the seed and mowing down the thatch. This is especially true if you can get a rain between the two events. The rain washes the seed down even further and helps to keep your concern of blowing the seed away to be a non-issue. Actually, I think it is better for the thatch to be a little moist when mowing it down on the seed. The moisture helps "stick" the seed to the ground and low part of the thatch.

Best wishes.

View attachment 28247
Click to expand...
I really like the idea of this tactic, it would make transportation to several of our permission properties much easier. How low do you set the deck on your zero turn? Not for maintenance, specifically for throw and mow. Do you also use your zero turn for new plots you have burnt down with gly?
 
yoderjac said:
I do a lot of T&M and variations. I find a cultipacker helps quite a bit. I typically do it all in one day. I will often broadcast seed in the morning. I'll then either mow and cultipack or just cultipack depending on the density of the weeds. My final step is spraying glyphosate or glufosinate I like to rotate them to avoid resistance. Both require the plant to be green and actively growing and don't hurt the seed.

I probably would not use a zero turn for field mowing. Most don't allow the blades to be set very high as they are for lawns. I'd use the highest setting if you do use one.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about spraying gly when you're establishing a new plot? Wouldn't the gly kill your established perennials in a regenerative plot? I do like the idea of spraying new plots without any perennials yet in them, for the purpose of killing cool season grasses, that will be a big problem the following spring, have you done this, and if so, has it been effective? I've read you should never apply chemical to newly mowed grasses, because it goes into shock for a few days and isn't actively growing. All of this is very pertinent to me, because 4 of our 5 plots have no perennials in them because of years of drought, I'm hoping to break that cycle with good rains this-coming fall.
 
KSQ2 said:
I really like the idea of this tactic, it would make transportation to several of our permission properties much easier. How low do you set the deck on your zero turn? Not for maintenance, specifically for throw and mow. Do you also use your zero turn for new plots you have burnt down with gly?
Click to expand...
The height I set the deck is a judgement call based on the amount of thatch I’m dealing with. I can go as high as 5 1/2 inches, but most of the time I mow about 3 inches on a new plot. I do use the zero turn for new plots that are burnt down with gly.
 
KSQ2 said:
Are you talking about spraying gly when you're establishing a new plot? Wouldn't the gly kill your established perennials in a regenerative plot? I do like the idea of spraying new plots without any perennials yet in them, for the purpose of killing cool season grasses, that will be a big problem the following spring, have you done this, and if so, has it been effective? I've read you should never apply chemical to newly mowed grasses, because it goes into shock for a few days and isn't actively growing. All of this is very pertinent to me, because 4 of our 5 plots have no perennials in them because of years of drought, I'm hoping to break that cycle with good rains this-coming fall.
Click to expand...

Yes, my post was addressing establishing a new plot. The generally recommended full burn-down rate is 2 qt/ac of glyphosate. Gly will kill most grasses at 1 qt/ac. In general, when I'm establishing a new clover plot, I want to kill everything and start with a clean plot. However, once established, I become quite weed tolerant. Generally, I see a lot of weeds in addition to cool season grasses so 2 qt/ac works well. At 2 qt/ac gly will kill usually kill grasses even if they have been mowed. If you really want to be effective at killing with gly, you would mow and then let the plot sit for a week or so before applying gly. This lets new growth get started which is more susceptible to gly. You would also add AMS to the tank before adding gly. AMS bonds with minerals in the water that can tie up gly and make it less effective.

I'm mowing less and less. I use T&M as shorthand for a variety of no-till and min-till methods of surface broadcast planting. Depending on the field condition, I prefer broadcasting seed and spraying then culitpacking rather than mowing. The order generally depends on condition of the field.

The main reason I don't use a zero turn mower for T&M is simply that it is not as heavy duty as a bushhog. The deck doesn't lift as high and rocks and such can be an issue. If a field is older and some woody growth has started, it can be harder on a Zero turn. The decks probably lift high enough to mow low growing clovers like Durana. I typically mow it at about 6". Taller clovers I'll mow higher, 8" or so depending on the clover.

Using a nurse crop like WR is one key to establishing perennial clover. It provides an attractant that first fall and takes up resources that weeds would otherwise use. Timely mowing to release the clover from the WR can be important depending on how thick the WR is. Once established, I only mow clover once a year, right before the season. As fields get older, I get all kinds of weeds like Poke berry that are great deer food. By fall these can be quite large and hard on a mower that is not heavy duty.

You can use any tool you have available to to T&M plots. I've done them with a push mower and lawn tractor. I know guys who have created T&M plots using a hand sprayer and weed whacker.
 
yoderjac said:
Yes, my post was addressing establishing a new plot. The generally recommended full burn-down rate is 2 qt/ac of glyphosate. Gly will kill most grasses at 1 qt/ac. In general, when I'm establishing a new clover plot, I want to kill everything and start with a clean plot. However, once established, I become quite weed tolerant. Generally, I see a lot of weeds in addition to cool season grasses so 2 qt/ac works well. At 2 qt/ac gly will kill usually kill grasses even if they have been mowed. If you really want to be effective at killing with gly, you would mow and then let the plot sit for a week or so before applying gly. This lets new growth get started which is more susceptible to gly. You would also add AMS to the tank before adding gly. AMS bonds with minerals in the water that can tie up gly and make it less effective.

I'm mowing less and less. I use T&M as shorthand for a variety of no-till and min-till methods of surface broadcast planting. Depending on the field condition, I prefer broadcasting seed and spraying then culitpacking rather than mowing. The order generally depends on condition of the field.

The main reason I don't use a zero turn mower for T&M is simply that it is not as heavy duty as a bushhog. The deck doesn't lift as high and rocks and such can be an issue. If a field is older and some woody growth has started, it can be harder on a Zero turn. The decks probably lift high enough to mow low growing clovers like Durana. I typically mow it at about 6". Taller clovers I'll mow higher, 8" or so depending on the clover.

Using a nurse crop like WR is one key to establishing perennial clover. It provides an attractant that first fall and takes up resources that weeds would otherwise use. Timely mowing to release the clover from the WR can be important depending on how thick the WR is. Once established, I only mow clover once a year, right before the season. As fields get older, I get all kinds of weeds like Poke berry that are great deer food. By fall these can be quite large and hard on a mower that is not heavy duty.

You can use any tool you have available to to T&M plots. I've done them with a push mower and lawn tractor. I know guys who have created T&M plots using a hand sprayer and weed whacker.
Click to expand...
I always use AMS when applying gly, a farmer told me he would string me up if I didn't years ago.:D
I would rather apply the gly like you said a little later after mowing, but if it rains, I would not want to risk killing newly germinated growth from the plot seed. I might split the difference and just waiting a couple days before spraying. One last question, if there is quite a bit of thatch, will the spray make it down to the cool season grasses effectively enough? When establishing new, regenerative plots, I've always sprayed a week or two before T&M. I would much rather spray after, especially if I'm trying to wait for cool season grasses to get going before I spray; it can be mid October before those really get going around here, in a dry year.
 
KSQ2 said:
I always use AMS when applying gly, a farmer told me he would string me up if I didn't years ago.:D
I would rather apply the gly like you said a little later after mowing, but if it rains, I would not want to risk killing newly germinated growth from the plot seed. I might split the difference and just waiting a couple days before spraying. One last question, if there is quite a bit of thatch, will the spray make it down to the cool season grasses effectively enough? When establishing new, regenerative plots, I've always sprayed a week or two before T&M. I would much rather spray after, especially if I'm trying to wait for cool season grasses to get going before I spray; it can be mid October before those really get going around here, in a dry year
Click to expand...
The reason for mowing and waiting is because we want new seed to germinate. Gly doesn't kill the seed, the plant needs to be actively growing. It is most effective when a plant is young and tender. So, if you really want to best results, you mow the field to release new weeds and grasses, wait for them to germinate, then spray. Establish plants have started new growth and new seeds have germinate and are young. I wouldn't broadcast my seed and then wait a week or so to spry gly.

I practical terms, I generally don't worry about it for food plots. It is nice to start with a clean plot, but all clover plots will attract grasses over time.

I don't use grass selective herbicides like Clethodim on clover plots, but I'm am considering using if for weed management. I have a situation where I have an old pasture and it is hard to get rid of grasses. I want to establish a broad spectrum of native weeds. I'm thinking about a fall spray of glyphosate after summer weeds senesce, perhaps after a frost, when cool season grasses are growing. Then, disc lightly the next spring. I'm now considering spraying cleth a couple weeks after disking to give broadleaf weeds a head start over grasses.
 
Native Hunter said:
3. You can mow the thatch down on the seed immediately after spreading them and be successful; however, I have learned that it is even better to wait a few days between spreading the seed and mowing down the thatch. This is especially true if you can get a rain between the two events. The rain washes the seed down even further and helps to keep your concern of blowing the seed away to be a non-issue. Actually, I think it is better for the thatch to be a little moist when mowing it down on the seed. The moisture helps "stick" the seed to the ground and low part of the thatch.

Best wishes.
Click to expand...
That #3 is a really good point. That thatch moves a lot over the following days as gravity and decomp slowly starts moving it towards the ground. I've put cams on brush piles and witnessed the same thing over a 30 day period. Much easier to see a brush pile drop a foot over a month, but the dry duff does the same on a smaller scale.
 
KSQ2 said:
I always use AMS when applying gly, a farmer told me he would string me up if I didn't years ago.:D
I would rather apply the gly like you said a little later after mowing, but if it rains, I would not want to risk killing newly germinated growth from the plot seed. I might split the difference and just waiting a couple days before spraying. One last question, if there is quite a bit of thatch, will the spray make it down to the cool season grasses effectively enough? When establishing new, regenerative plots, I've always sprayed a week or two before T&M. I would much rather spray after, especially if I'm trying to wait for cool season grasses to get going before I spray; it can be mid October before those really get going around here, in a dry year.
Click to expand...
What is the concern with adding AMS to gly?
 
KSQ2 said:
Not adding the softener greatly diminishes the effectiveness of gly, thereby making weeds/invasives more resistant to it.
Click to expand...
I misread your post. I thought you said he would string you up if you DID. Haha! I couldn't figure that out. Carry on. 😂
 
One of my more fertile plots has a pretty deep layer of thatch from laid down CR and clover that died with our heat. It’s a very thick layer. I was thinking about setting my Firminator with the disc blades straight and counting in the cultipacker to get the sets down to ground rather than just broadcasting and cultipacking/mowing.

What do you recommend when the thatch is already on the ground or laid down before seeding?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
bearcat said:
One of my more fertile plots has a pretty deep layer of thatch from laid down CR and clover that died with our heat. It’s a very thick layer. I was thinking about setting my Firminator with the disc blades straight and counting in the cultipacker to get the sets down to ground rather than just broadcasting and cultipacking/mowing.

What do you recommend when the thatch is already on the ground or laid down before seeding?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
I generally don't bother mowing. I just seed, cultipack, and spray. Most of the seed we plant for fall is small enough that it works it's way to the ground. I'd seed first and then run your ferminator and spray if needed.

If the thatch layer is so thick that it is a real problem, you could always consider burning the plot.
 
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