Regenerative Plotting

[Mennoniteman]

Ted Kornecki with the USDA in Auburn, AL has done testing with another method of termination that he's finding to be just as effective as roller crimping. He's using a device attached to the exhaust of a tractor to direct heat directly onto the length of the cover crop plant. https://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publication/?seqNo115=356738

Either he has a tractor that runs hot, or then he's not killing plants? The tobacco farmers around here use antique steamers to kill weeds sterilize weed seeds before they plant their tobacco seedlings, but it takes a lot of heat to do that, they drag large flat metal boxes around and fill them with hot steam for several minutes to kill stuff, it's a very time consuming process.

Took a while, but I read through this thread. I haven’t taken the time to open any of the links, I’m just relying on the summaries of all of you. I’ve seen some of the problems I’ve faced in keeping our perineal clover plots going, mainly Johnson grass. Our biggest plot is on property we do not own and the owner hays through our clover in the summer, so there I have to keep the seeding in of cereals, especially in the spring to a minimum. In other places though, I’m thinking about dropping in some barley in the spring. What is the earliest barley can be expected to germinate in our zone? I’d like to broadcast it while the clover is still early in coming out of dormancy, the deer will have eaten way down at that time. Also, in a couple of our places, we rotate brassicas, we have to work those up in the spring to keep them from going to seed. We have typically planted an annual clover with oats, only to be worked up and rotated to cereal grain and perineal clover the following fall, per the advice of Paul Knox. Would we be better served planting barley with the annual clover?

I'd suggest experimenting with barley to see if you like it, since barley is less competitive than oats or rye, oats or rye are more of a smother crop for weed competiton.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I'm struggling with serecia. Cattle don't eat it and nothing out competes it. I haven't found a reason it establishes (like mulleins is a early succession plant that likes disturbed shallow soils... it goes away on it's own if you build the soil some). I have had some luck with thick grass that doesn't get grazed combined with broadleaf killer. Can't use gly because it make the ground bare and serecia comes back stronger. Can't graze it because it shoots up faster than the grass. I'm wondering if a solid stand of switch grass along the waterways and creeks would keep it at bay?

Have you seen this yet?

https://www.asi.k-state.edu/doc/forage/fora44.pdf

I wonder what would happen if you dropped a bale feeder on it? Or are you dealing with bigger quantities than that?

 

[catscratch]

Have you seen this yet?

https://www.asi.k-state.edu/doc/forage/fora44.pdf

I wonder what would happen if you dropped a bale feeder on it? Or are you dealing with bigger quantities than that?

Read it. Didn't see a publish date on it but suspect it's old. K-State currently is trying to find ways to eradicate it. I've never witnessed signs of grazing or browsing on it. And... as per the article even if it was grazed the proteins are mostly locked up in the tannins and wouldn't be worth much. As much as you know I value diversity and look for something useful in all plants, I can't find something about sericia worth keeping. Throw in the fact that it quickly becomes a monoculture and you have a bad ass intruder.

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[KSQ2]

Read it. Didn't see a publish date on it but suspect it's old. K-State currently is trying to find ways to eradicate it. I've never witnessed signs of grazing or browsing on it. And... as per the article even if it was grazed the proteins are mostly locked up in the tannins and wouldn't be worth much. As much as you know I value diversity and look for something useful in all plants, I can't find something about sericia worth keeping. Throw in the fact that it quickly becomes a monoculture and you have a bad ass intruder.

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I really wish I’d done more reading before burning off one of our released hay meadows last spring. Serecia has basically taken it over as a result. The only thing I’ve got going for me is the oaks we already established there that are way above the shade line of the serecia. The only way I’ve been told to combat it is timely spraying of remedy. Even though I’ve used it some in small quantities, remedy scares me because it has no regard for our trees and shrubs. That said, deer love to bed in it.

 

[Okvet03]

This may be one of the most interesting threads I've read. I purchased my land last summer. My initial goal was just hunting. That morphed into rebuilding native crosstimber habitat, soil biology, pollinators, prescribed fire... It's easy to go down the rabbit hole. Now I find I'd rather work on the land than sit in a stand. I think it's about enjoying the journey as much or more than the destination. This forum is a great resource, keep up the good work!

 

[MarkDarvin]

Read it. Didn't see a publish date on it but suspect it's old. K-State currently is trying to find ways to eradicate it. I've never witnessed signs of grazing or browsing on it. And... as per the article even if it was grazed the proteins are mostly locked up in the tannins and wouldn't be worth much. As much as you know I value diversity and look for something useful in all plants, I can't find something about sericia worth keeping. Throw in the fact that it quickly becomes a monoculture and you have a bad ass intruder.
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Back on the farm, we had a green chopper, which was basically a flail mower connected to a blower to harvest standing forage. It would be a diesel and extra equipment headache, but would there be any value in harvesting off the biomass and composting it until it peters out?

Is it a warm season plant, any chance rye could get ahead of it if timed properly?

 

[MarkDarvin]

 

[catscratch]

That's a cool machine Mark, but my research says mowing (which is what that's paramount to) isn't a great tool for sericea. I may have been misleading posting about sericea on a plotting forum. I don't have problems with it in plots. It's a rangeland issue. It grows everywhere, which means creak bottoms, rocky pasture, woods, edge, etc. Most of those places aren't accessible, and most of those places aren't something you want to destroy even if you could get equipment in. Mowing would have to be a fall endeavor where you can reach it due to seeding cycle; but you don't want to loose grass stockpiled for winter. September burns are supposed to be effective according to K-State, but once again you are loosing your stockpiles. I might try it this fall and broadcast rye and clover in the burns. The warm season grasses will still come back but the added alothophic effects of rye may help. It's hard to burn in the fall, very dry and usually windy. Not sure what I'll do, I'm basically thinking out loud as I type...

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[deer patch]

That's a cool machine Mark, but my research says mowing (which is what that's paramount to) isn't a great tool for sericea. I may have been misleading posting about sericea on a plotting forum. I don't have problems with it in plots. It's a rangeland issue. It grows everywhere, which means creak bottoms, rocky pasture, woods, edge, etc. Most of those places aren't accessible, and most of those places aren't something you want to destroy even if you could get equipment in. Mowing would have to be a fall endeavor where you can reach it due to seeding cycle; but you don't want to loose grass stockpiled for winter. September burns are supposed to be effective according to K-State, but once again you are loosing your stockpiles. I might try it this fall and broadcast rye and clover in the burns. The warm season grasses will still come back but the added alothophic effects of rye may help. It's hard to burn in the fall, very dry and usually windy. Not sure what I'll do, I'm basically thinking out loud as I type...

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I have sprayed Garlon 3A at one quart per acre and had great success eradicating sericea. I wish I would have taken before and after pics but I didn’t and that’s on me.

 

[catscratch]

I have sprayed Garlon 3A at one quart per acre and had great success eradicating sericea. I wish I would have taken before and after pics but I didn’t and that’s on me.

I've never used Garlon but my go-to is triclopyr (the active ingredient in Garlon 3a). Maybe I should look at Garlon's label and see if I'm using comparable amounts of triclopyr. It knocks it down when I spray but the patches are back the following yr.
Thanks.

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[KSQ2]

That's a cool machine Mark, but my research says mowing (which is what that's paramount to) isn't a great tool for sericea. I may have been misleading posting about sericea on a plotting forum. I don't have problems with it in plots. It's a rangeland issue. It grows everywhere, which means creak bottoms, rocky pasture, woods, edge, etc. Most of those places aren't accessible, and most of those places aren't something you want to destroy even if you could get equipment in. Mowing would have to be a fall endeavor where you can reach it due to seeding cycle; but you don't want to loose grass stockpiled for winter. September burns are supposed to be effective according to K-State, but once again you are loosing your stockpiles. I might try it this fall and broadcast rye and clover in the burns. The warm season grasses will still come back but the added alothophic effects of rye may help. It's hard to burn in the fall, very dry and usually windy. Not sure what I'll do, I'm basically thinking out loud as I type...

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If regenerative plotting was a true goal, then serecia would become an issue in plots. We have it in the edges of numerous plots in different locations; regular tilling (meaning every other year) is the only thing besides remedy that has kept it a bay for us.

 

[dogghr]

No matter if you believe in till or no till, chemical or no chemical, would some one just please post another picture so I don’t have to look at Brady everytime I start to cruise this thread!!!???


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[BenAllgood]

https://www.earthtools.com/implements-covercrop/crimperroller/

 

[MarkDarvin]

I'm basically thinking out loud as I type...

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It's a process.

 

[Baker]

Thanks for the recap Ben . I'm just back from the ranch and finishing up the season. Now I look forward to cranking up the new year programs. This kind of information resonates with me perfectly aligning with the direction I am taking my farm.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Here's a short video on precision cover crops. They drilled specific species in rows, and then tested micro sites in that row, and inbetween those rows. The cover crops created hot pockets of fertility around them. Neat stuff.

 

[dogghr]

Good video. But once again thru my mind is thinking how a Dr from a university suddenly proves what many food plotters have been practicing for years. At the same time those plotters often getting grief and unbelief from certain deer groups, corporate seed sellers, and even at times on deer management forums. Even my local feed store guys have looked at me in the past like I was crazy, especially for a deer plot even when trying to improve soils. I once was told what a waste of time I was spending with crop rotations and mixtures, when all I needed to do was spread rye and the shoot deer off of said growth.
While there are still farmers in my area using tillage, over the last 10 years I've seen that I don't think there is one that doesn't do some type of cover crop management, reducing need for herbicides and fertilizers along with rotational grazing.
I recently went to WHI website to review their supposed new seed options they had sent me an ad for, and it was/is amazing what combos they amazingly have come up with in "their " research, that in reality was talked about on forums years ago and many of us implemented.
In all fairness, cover crop/rotational/no bare dirt farming was being researched decades ago. One of my summer jobs was working for an Ag professor analyzing different soil samples he was taking from various rotational plantings he was doing for cattle management. Little did I know, much of what he was finding would be promoted as new ideas years later. Wish I had paid more attention to him when I was a know- it- all kid doing chemical analysis of little bags of soil in that lab.

 

[Baker]

This is a great thread. Having just finished the season I'm starting to dream about next year already and what my spring planting scheme will be. Whatever, the goal will be to minimize or eliminate poisonous sprays, synthetic fertilizer, pesticides and plant a diverse spring mix designed to improve the soil, meet all the nutritional needs of the whitetail, set the table for fall planting into the summer crop.....and grow whupass healthy big bucks and healthy fawns.

For now I'm off to fill the protein feeders....but thats the stuff for another thread.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Here's a short video on precision cover crops. They drilled specific species in rows, and then tested micro sites in that row, and inbetween those rows. The cover crops created hot pockets of fertility around them. Neat stuff.

I can endorse the ideas promoted in this video, I think the future of brassicas and small grains is going to to be front center as powerful tools in the ongoing quest to grow crops with less erosion, less chemicals, less tillage, and ultimately, lower costs. I'm of the opinion that we need, and are on the verge of, some major breakthroughs in equipment and methods in order to accomplish these goals. A near future solution in this quest may be some sort computerized Rube Goldberg piece of machinery that ridges soil (or maintains the ridges from the year before) for multiple rows of cash crops, sterilizes just the row width with electricity, then plants corn or beans on top of the ridge, while planting mixed cover crops in the moisture conserving, nutrient conserving, and bacterial and fungi promoting, weed smothering depression areas between the crop rows, all on level contours, all in one pass for planting and one pass for harvesting. I see something like this as the wave of the future, someone thinking totally out of the box, and hitting it big, making conventional farming obsolete overnight. It would be a very complex machine that could run on multiple different sections of tracks for low compaction and stable maneuverability, harvesting corn at the same time that it's planting fall rye and radishes, and identifying and spot zapping problem weeds with electricity. Complex, but in today's world we do have the technology for machines like this. The idea would be to spend more on complex machinery and save the equivalent dollars on pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. All that we're waiting for is the next Bill Gates to get it to the market. Put a Polish farmer, an Asian computer programmer, an American soils biologist, a French chemist, a few German engineers, and a British welder in the same VW beetle for a long road trip, and we'd have our machine...

 

[MarkDarvin]

I can't believe we aren't there already.