A few interesting webinars from Penn State.
Advanced Soil Ecology for Meeting Crop Health and Environmental Goals (psu.edu)
Advanced Soil Ecology for Meeting Crop Health and Environmental Goals (psu.edu)
Regenerative Plotting
- Thread starter MarkDarvin
- Start date
Anyone try frost/over seeding their regen plots? I know some of the fall seeded species will pop back up, but wanted to get a little more growing in the spring, so we just overseeded some of our fall plots with a cool season mix. (about 2/3 rate) The ground cooperated, so it was cultipacked too. It'll be a few weeks until the weather warms up, but we'll see what happens.
Jon
Active Member
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I've got white clover and it doesn't switch on for almost 6 weeks after the cool season stuff starts growing. I've got weeds that get going right away. They need competition. They get barley.
I was pushing the envelope last weekend pushing a few different cool season annuals into snow.
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever had a soil test that didn't call for phosphorus to be added?
We don’t have to add any phosphorous here in the lowcountry of SC. It is naturally through the roof. I’ll be planting corn Saturday with 15-0-15.
KSQ2
Well-Known Member
Cool season grasses are beginning to come on strong in our established clover. This is 2-4 year old clover, depending on which part of the plot you’re in. I plan to spray with clethodim and let it set for 30 days per the label. Then I’m going to do a throw and mow with barley and rye.
Here’s a couple questions: should I mix a little glyphosate with the clethodim to get a better kill? I don’t want to hurt the clover. Also, is late April too late for barley? One more question for you regenerative guys, do you ever broadcast p&k to help the clover?
Here’s a couple questions: should I mix a little glyphosate with the clethodim to get a better kill? I don’t want to hurt the clover. Also, is late April too late for barley? One more question for you regenerative guys, do you ever broadcast p&k to help the clover?
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
I'm not certain on the chem or barley timing down that way. Barley is cheap, I'd try it and see what you can learn.
I used to start my clover with p and k, but the last few spots I started, I only put on gypsum and k, and the only reason I put on k was because I had it sitting around in buckets. I'm starting up a new half acre this summer, and that won't get anything but gypsum. I may come back with some lime after a year if I get low pH weeds.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I'd answer your question, but I just wrote the answers in a new thread that describes how I deal with my clover plots that might give you some ideas. http://deerhunterforum.com/index.ph...for-clover-plot-maintenance.6437/#post-114154
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
If anyone is still unable to get out and work on stuff yet, here's a good soil lesson you probably haven't heard yet. There's a few minutes of go-nowhere chatter to begin, so jump to the 6:10 mark and he gets going. This guy is a farmer, chemist from South Dakota. Very cool what he's been working on with water, weeds, reduced inputs, and yields.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Listened to the whole thing, well worth the time. He stays focused and on-topic, and is very anti-tillage, with the research to back it up. The most interesting part for me was him pointing out research that shows tillage plants weed seeds that normally lay on top of the soil and die. His closing statement; Guys tell me that they need to till to get rid of weeds. However, if tillage got rid of weeds we wouldn't have any by now.
Dandelions have INVADED one of our plots. We planted the same diverse mixture everywhere, except I overseeded part this plot with some white cloud crimson clover. (weed source?) It seems that's the part this is LOADED. Trying to decide what to do here. This plot is closest to the lawn, which has dandelions, and was previously perennial clover for years. Last fall there was a horrible drought, so it might have given them an opportunity to get established, though I don't remember seeing many/any. The part of the plot that doesn't have any dandelions was part the that we disked last year, to level that section out. It had a hump and was hard to consistently drill into. I'm thinking it might be time to shallow disk this section to, just to help with the existing crusting it seems to suffer from. It'll help smooth this section out, and mix in the lime from last spring. Am I crazy? Should we just spray it instead? The summer soil builder mix will go in around labor day, so there's still time to wait and see what happens. Thoughts?
Attachments
MarkDarvin
Well-Known Member
Dandelions usually mean clay and compaction. Is that the green cover summer soil builder?
catscratch
Well-Known Member
I believe dandelions are in the same family as thistle but grow in healthier soils than thistle. I'd say your flush of dandelions is a good sign. Once they've done their job it should be easy to establish clover there. If you're into the regenerative plotting let them do their work with the soil and reap the rewards. If they bug you give them a shot of gly and replant. I don't see much opportunity for thatch in your pics though so maybe notill is an option right now instead of TnM? Just thinking out loud.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
KSQ2
Well-Known Member
For those of you who throw and mow into buckwheat in the fall, do you have any issue with the buckwheat seed? Does it germinate and then die with the frost? Or does the seed sit all winter and germinate the following spring? I plan to throw cereal/clover mixture into it next fall, will the buckwheat out compete it?
buckhunter10
Well-Known Member
Excited to be back and see this thread. I am very much obsessed with the soil health/regen ag trend.
I’ll share tomorrow all my notes from the past 4 webinars with Dr. Christine Jones and Green Cover seed.
I am in much agreement with @MarkDarvin on his posts here. The more I learn about soil tests, the more I question. There is extreme variability in them - even OM readings. Not to mention the question of what is available, bio available and what will be available -through an actual soil micro biome. I think conventional soil tests have their place but don’t lose sleep over them at night. Look at the soil and build a system that lends itself to creating well aggregates soils.
I have not yet started in on Dr. Rick Haneys tests but I am considering it, heavily.
I saw many mention Gabe Brown.
Some Additional sources
Growing a revolution
Soil owners manual
Drop time Podcast - select podcast - one with Adam Daughtry is great. Planting green into 18tons of biomass per acre.
Soil will save us
John Kempf - his podcast, blogs, etc. amazing mind!
Ray Archuleta- YouTube
Dr. James white - rhizophagy cycle - YouTube - fascinating.
Dr. Christine Jones
Continum Ag - Instagram
Field Work Podcast - from farmers in Iowa - great stuff.
Hope to learn from you all and help share my learned knowledge along the way.
AT
I’ll share tomorrow all my notes from the past 4 webinars with Dr. Christine Jones and Green Cover seed.
I am in much agreement with @MarkDarvin on his posts here. The more I learn about soil tests, the more I question. There is extreme variability in them - even OM readings. Not to mention the question of what is available, bio available and what will be available -through an actual soil micro biome. I think conventional soil tests have their place but don’t lose sleep over them at night. Look at the soil and build a system that lends itself to creating well aggregates soils.
I have not yet started in on Dr. Rick Haneys tests but I am considering it, heavily.
I saw many mention Gabe Brown.
Some Additional sources
Growing a revolution
Soil owners manual
Drop time Podcast - select podcast - one with Adam Daughtry is great. Planting green into 18tons of biomass per acre.
Soil will save us
John Kempf - his podcast, blogs, etc. amazing mind!
Ray Archuleta- YouTube
Dr. James white - rhizophagy cycle - YouTube - fascinating.
Dr. Christine Jones
Continum Ag - Instagram
Field Work Podcast - from farmers in Iowa - great stuff.
Hope to learn from you all and help share my learned knowledge along the way.
AT
buckhunter10
Well-Known Member
Another amazing webinar from Dr. Christine Jones. I highly suggest listening to this webinar if you are interested in creating better soils, and reducing your need for syntenic inputs. For those who enjoy the cliff notes – please see mine below! Build Better Soils!
- Phosphorus - highly immobile
- Abundant in most soils
- 85-90% of nutrients are microbially mediated
- Today’s soils aren’t deficient in minerals, they are deficient in microbes that make nutrients available.
- Plant microbes don’t work well under lab conditions – hence why past research has been misleading. The soil tested had low to no microbial life.
- Nitrogen has to be biologically fixed for carbon sequestration to occur.
- Phosphorus soluble bacteria stimulate biological nitrogen-fixing bacteria.
- If we add water-soluble phosphorus- we add phosphorus - which stops the biological fixing of phosphorus, which in turn stops nitrogen-fixing biology which is needed to create the humic molecule (organic matter).
- Australian farmers captured 25tons of carbon per hectare - 2/3rds was from root exudates – in 24 months.
- Only 10-15% of P is taken by plants in the year of application
- 85-90% is immobilized in soil
- In soils ph, less than 7 - forms insoluble metals
- P doesn’t move in soil. 1-2inchs top. Once roots get deep, synthetic applications of P are not available.
- Available P in soil tests shows 1.4-3% of actual P in the soil. Other 98% is in soil- need microbial activity through symbiotic relationships to develop this availability.
- Fungi solubilize phosphorus for plants – fungi need root exudates, the importance of constant root growing.
- As the growing season nears (spring and fall) microbial activity is highest. Available P Will increase during these periods. So taking soil tests early could show inaccurate results.
- Plant tissue tests will be far more accurate in showing you what is taken up by the plants.
- Soil is a mix of aerobic and anaerobic biological functions. Nitrogen fixation occurs in an anaerobic environment - cannot fix in aerobic(oxygen) exposed environment (tillage would damage the fungi as well as the nitrogen-fixing ability of the soil, it is exposing it to air).
- Potassium - might be ok to add, in small doses.
- The best way to add is foliar - if needed. Much less needed. If a Brix test shows this being lower.
- 4-6 plant families in cover crop mix.
- Nitrogen bacteria in soil - takes 3 years in the soil to be adequate. This is why if the goal is to come off a nitrogen fertilization program, it is best to reduce slowly over years, and not stop cold turkey. Think of an antibiotic increase and decrease regiment a human would be on, to not shock the body.
- Biostimulant - compost extract - on seed -these act as auto-inducers, stimulate soil microbiome vs. just acting as a fertilizer but acting as one in same. These are not fertilizing the roots but actually jump-starting the microbiome of the soil where the seed is planted, so that when the seed breaks open and starts producing exudates, the microbes are awake and ready!
- Seeds' core microbiome is important - similar to genetics but not genetic, it is microbial but can determine the likelihood of how the plant grows, wants to grow, interacts with microbes, etc. This is developing science.
