Regenerative Plotting

[bowhunt160bucks]

Very interesting fellas. Not to turn this wonderful thread into a pond/wetlands thread but...
I utilize what the co op calls grain bags (the long white marshmallows you see along the fields they store grain in) for free. Basically they are a 20x300' tarp. I have used my skid to take out 12-18" of dirt lay down the tarps and backfill over the top. I now have about a 3 acre area that I plant birdseed in, flood in the fall and lease to duck hunter for the tune of $3500/year!
Just another thought for your wet spots.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Cabin season is supposed to be winding down up here. We're in an extended season without any of the white stuff. No matter, end of season habitat work and habitat chores need chorin' in case the season ender shows up without warning. I never got my gypsum spread late summer, so I got it out this weekend finally. Should be good and soaked in by the time things get ready to take off in the spring.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Anyone using any sort of nontraditional fertilizers that fall into the bio stimulant category? Thoughts on your experiences?

 

[MarkDarvin]

Anyone using any sort of nontraditional fertilizers that fall into the bio stimulant category? Thoughts on your experiences?

I've gotten down to only gypsum the past year. Jury is still out on that.

From there, I'm using other plants, staying-green, and sunlight to fertilize. The idea being that every plant is a factory that extracts and utilizes nutrients and then returns them to the soil. It's more complex than that, but it's nature's model of diversity. The plants work together to build their own nutrient economy.

The most important nutrients, you cannot buy. Those are oxygen, hydrogen, and carbon. All the bagged stuff won't get you a thing if you don't mind the fundamentals.

 

[catscratch]

Very interesting fellas. Not to turn this wonderful thread into a pond/wetlands thread but...
I utilize what the co op calls grain bags (the long white marshmallows you see along the fields they store grain in) for free. Basically they are a 20x300' tarp. I have used my skid to take out 12-18" of dirt lay down the tarps and backfill over the top. I now have about a 3 acre area that I plant birdseed in, flood in the fall and lease to duck hunter for the tune of $3500/year!
Just another thought for your wet spots.

You have any pics of this setup? Sounds kind of neat!

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[catscratch]

Anyone using any sort of nontraditional fertilizers that fall into the bio stimulant category? Thoughts on your experiences?

I have not used any biostimulants other than plant diversity and grazing. I'm working under the idea that plants, bacteria, and fungi will find the correct balance (if you let it) and exchange all the nutrients and carbon needed. Not against the idea, but I imagine it would knock the balance out of whack.

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[TX-Aggie]

On bio-stimulants, I haven't used anything crazy on my regenerative plots outside of poultry litter, and composted cow manure. I've toyed with putting some dry molasses on my plots this next spring instead of the poultry litter to cut some costs. I use that on my yard in the spring to give a carbon source injection that kick starts the soil biology. Per the guy on dirtdoctor.com, 100-200 lbs per acre should see benefit. Another added benefit of dry molasses - no fire ants for about 3-4 months after application.

 

[RGrizzzz]

On bio-stimulants, I haven't used anything crazy on my regenerative plots outside of poultry litter, and composted cow manure. I've toyed with putting some dry molasses on my plots this next spring instead of the poultry litter to cut some costs. I use that on my yard in the spring to give a carbon source injection that kick starts the soil biology. Per the guy on dirtdoctor.com, 100-200 lbs per acre should see benefit. Another added benefit of dry molasses - no fire ants for about 3-4 months after application.

Interesting

Anyone try biochar? Is it something that spreads easily/with a 3 pt spreader? Can I top dress with it?

 

[MarkDarvin]

Interesting

Anyone try biochar? Is it something that spreads easily/with a 3 pt spreader? Can I top dress with it?

I haven't tried it yet, mostly due to sourcing. That said, I will be making a couple giant growing pots out of halves of a 55 gallon plastic barrel I cut up a few years back. It'll be modeled after the hugel design. One will be a traditional hugel, the other will have a bag of hardwood charcoal dumped in it. I'll run them as side by sides for a couple years to see how they do.

 

[TX-Aggie]

I have never tried biochar. I have put out something similar on my yard, which was screened to be small enough to use a spreader. It was very rough on my spreader, and I never saw any observable improvement for the costs of the product. I would think it couldn't hurt out on the plots to kick start the carbon cycle.

As for spreading it, it would all depend on the screening size you would be able to locate and/or make. If it was too large, I would guess you could put on a trailer or tractor bucket, and shovel it around the plots. Kind of a "scoop and heave and move on" method. It wouldn't be as evenly spread, but what I did find in my yard when I went with organics - even spread isn't necessarily as important as with inorganics.

Remember, we are feeding the "soil" and the soil microbiome not the plants with the regenerative process, and thus the microbiome will "spread" the goods around.

 

[Cap'n]

I’ve been using CoolTerra bio char for the last few years in the media and in the backfill when transplanting seedlings. I believe it makes a difference in the crappy soil I’m dealing with in some areas. And it sticks around for 2-3 years. I’ve been mixing it with Calcined clay granular in the backfill in the sandy areas this year so they will help in holding moisture and nutrients.
I got some for a friend that’s an organic farmer and he used it on a row of shallots. He was very impressed. He mixed it into the soil with 5-3-2 poultry poop.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I’ve been using CoolTerra bio char for the last few years in the media and in the backfill when transplanting seedlings. I believe it makes a difference in the crappy soil I’m dealing with in some areas. And it sticks around for 2-3 years. I’ve been mixing it with Calcined clay granular in the backfill in the sandy areas this year so they will help in holding moisture and nutrients.
I got some for a friend that’s an organic farmer and he used it on a row of shallots. He was very impressed. He mixed it into the soil with 5-3-2 poultry poop.

Where do you buy it, and in what kind of quantities?

 

[Cap'n]

@RGrizz
I used to sell it. Cool Planet was bought out by another company that was very similar in that they had a line of organic products.. I don't recall their name, they were going to keep it going but we haven't heard from them yet.
So what we had was their bagged product that was 1.5 Cu. Ft. or 30 lbs. I used 1 cup per 4" of pot and 3 cups per transplant from a 3 gal bag. I sold it for $37 per bag. I know they had it in 1000 and 2000 lb totes. I still have a few bags but I need to hang on to them. depending on where your located I may be able to find it in one of our warehouses closest to you.

 

[Hoosierhunting]

Thought you guys would like this. Those are pics of an Exeter Biochar Retort that my neighbor has. It was shipped from England. I have a unique neighbor that’s obviously not resource constrained. I put more info in my property thread If you’re interested.


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[Bowman]

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There are lots of words and concepts used to continue to push soil health and reduce inputs, as well as achieving higher outputs. I came across the concept of "pasture cropping." This is a neat watch. It's not all that different from other forms of innovative growing, but it does have it's niche.

The short version is, this guy has a warm season grass dominated pasture. So in the cool season when his pastures are dormant, he drills cool season cereals right into his pasture without killing it, and gets a crop.

I wonder if this same idea couldn't be used in clover, but in reverse. When clover is most vulnerable by me (heat of midsummer), what if I moved it hard, and pushed out a rate of brassicas, forage oats, and some rye and wheat? Could it knock it back enough that those things could take hold?

I think so. From John O’Brion of Grandpa Ray’s Outdoors:

My background is in managed intensive grazing. The rule of thumb in the grazing community is "take half, leave half." What that means, is no matter the height of the pasture that you are clipping, you should always leave half of the forage.

I have heard so many people say, "Oh, I clip short and the clover plot still grows back." My answer to that is we are trying to grow as much tonnage of forage per acre per year. The lower you cut anything towards the ground, the slower the recovery time.

Here is a chart showing the effects of clipping your plots too low. Note that if you take 70% of the forage or more, you are really shutting down the plants.

On a side note, the best time to clip your forages is in the late vegetative stage or early bud stage, right before your forages begin to flower.



View attachment 20924

This is a very rocky and sandy plot in Northern Michigan. Will start with Mass Builder:
Ladino Clover, Medium Red,Alfalfa, Berseem, Chicory, Alsike.




Broadcast, mowed and cultipacked with Frosty Delight: Radish, Kale, Turnip and Rutabaga and Rye.
Perennials are mowed low to set them back and allow the brassicas to germinate with less competition.
Hopefully, the brassicas use some nitrogen.

View attachment 20926​

This field has been maintained with mowing, overseeding with Balansa, Trefoil and brassicas. Per the soil test which shows high phosphorous, I will be broadcasting buckwheat then mowing and cultipacking perennials when the temps get to 65 degrees.

No herbicides.

View attachment 20925​

Greening up, but getting hit.

View attachment 20927​

 

[MarkDarvin]

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I think so. From John O’Brion of Grandpa Ray’s Outdoors:

My background is in managed intensive grazing. The rule of thumb in the grazing community is "take half, leave half." What that means, is no matter the height of the pasture that you are clipping, you should always leave half of the forage.

I have heard so many people say, "Oh, I clip short and the clover plot still grows back." My answer to that is we are trying to grow as much tonnage of forage per acre per year. The lower you cut anything towards the ground, the slower the recovery time.

Here is a chart showing the effects of clipping your plots too low. Note that if you take 70% of the forage or more, you are really shutting down the plants.

On a side note, the best time to clip your forages is in the late vegetative stage or early bud stage, right before your forages begin to flower.
View attachment 20932


View attachment 20924

This is a very rocky and sandy plot in Northern Michigan. Will start with Mass Builder:
Ladino Clover, Medium Red,Alfalfa, Berseem, Chicory, Alsike.

View attachment 20933


Broadcast, mowed and cultipacked with Frosty Delight: Radish, Kale, Turnip and Rutabaga and Rye.
Perennials are mowed low to set them back and allow the brassicas to germinate with less competition.
Hopefully, the brassicas use some nitrogen.
View attachment 20934

View attachment 20926​

This field has been maintained with mowing, overseeding with Balansa, Trefoil and brassicas. Per the soil test which shows high phosphorous, I will be broadcasting buckwheat then mowing and cultipacking perennials when the temps get to 65 degrees.

No herbicides.

View attachment 20925​

Greening up, but getting hit.
View attachment 20935

View attachment 20927​

I've been trying to intentionally knock my clover back hard when it's most vulnerable to get something else going in it for fall, and despite mowing it on nearly the hottest day or the year and as low as billy goat would go, it still rebounded and smothered most of what I seeded. I got a little to poke through, but so far, I haven't been able to snuff it out, even for a few weeks.

 

[Bowman]

A question and a suggestion. What have you seeded into the mowed clover? Is it possible that the same "hottest day of the year" was detrimental to the germination of what you overseeded? I think that the mowing percentages reduce photosynthesis and the root activity. If this is true then mowing and seeding when it is more favorable for the seeding may be more successful. In another field, I am trying multiple timings for seeding and mowing to always have something growing and germinating throughout the season.

 

[catscratch]

I've got a pretty good stand of wheat growing in clover that I mowed after seeding this fall. The clover that didn't get mowed isn't showing much wheat. Could be a difference of height though as the unmowed clover would easily hide a shoot of wheat. Fall timing was conductive to wheat growth and a natural slowdown of clover growth.

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[KSQ2]

I've got a pretty good stand of wheat growing in clover that I mowed after seeding this fall. The clover that didn't get mowed isn't showing much wheat. Could be a difference of height though as the unmowed clover would easily hide a shoot of wheat. Fall timing was conductive to wheat growth and a natural slowdown of clover growth.

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It really appears that most of the clover we broadcasted into is growing some wheat/rye. I won't know for sure until it gets really cold for a week or so, if that ever happens. If it doesn't, I might have to wait longer to see what the green growing in the plots is. I'm contemplating spraying it all with clethodim at early green up, and then broadcasting barley/rye in April; in that case I might not ever see exactly what is/was growing. Deer seem to like it though, so I'm happy!

 

[MarkDarvin]

A question and a suggestion. What have you seeded into the mowed clover? Is it possible that the same "hottest day of the year" was detrimental to the germination of what you overseeded? I think that the mowing percentages reduce photosynthesis and the root activity. If this is true then mowing and seeding when it is more favorable for the seeding may be more successful. In another field, I am trying multiple timings for seeding and mowing to always have something growing and germinating throughout the season.

You might be on to something there. I planted oats, barley, and brassicas. Up here, the hottest day of the year may only reach 87 degrees.