Regenerative Plotting

[MarkDarvin]

For over 40 years I have developed and managed my farm exclusively for deer hunting. About 10 years ago I became fascinated with no till, and soil regeneration mostly using multi specie plantings fall and winter. Now I have decided to explore taking things much farther down the regenerative ag road. I have hired Dr. Allen Williams as a consultant to get involved with my farm and develop a far more comprehensive plan including multi specie grazing stock, fowl, pigs, bees, fruits, nuts, brambles and anything else that will grow in the south. The goal is soil and ecosystem continual improvement. Kind of a hybrid regenerative ag/permaculture approach.

Like many I have read and listened to every word the leading edge pundits have spoken on this subject. When I bought my ranch in the 90's I bought 20 copies of Alan Savory's holistic grazing book giving copies to everyone in the neighborhood. But ultimately I never did anything with it. I read , studied and visited Polyface farms learning all I could about how Joel Salatin accomplishes what he does. But again have done very little with it .

So now I have finally got off my *** and hired who appears to me to be the best at regenerative ag especially here in the deep south. As I begin to develop this program I'll document it in my property thread. Course I'm still going to prioritize growing the highest quality deer possible just now the farm will have a broader dimension to it . Consider me excited!

That is terrific!

 

[KSQ2]

When fall broadcasting into existing stands of clover, should I also broadcast some more clover seed? If so, should I wait and frost seed it?

 

[Mennoniteman]

When fall broadcasting into existing stands of clover, should I also broadcast some more clover seed? If so, should I wait and frost seed it?

If there's dirt exposed this fall, add more clover seed. If the thatch is that thick that the seeds won't have good soil contact, wait until late winter and frost seed, there's much more soil contact then. Without soil contact clover won't germinate.

 

[MarkDarvin]

When fall broadcasting into existing stands of clover, should I also broadcast some more clover seed? If so, should I wait and frost seed it?

Depends what kind of clover. White? If you don't have hug open spots, No. If it's well fed it should populate on it's own. If it's just getting thin, push the cereals.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Just downloaded "Teaming with Nutrients"

'bout to get started.........

bill

I just ordered mine this morning. How you liking this one so far? Any eye openers?

 

[TreeDaddy]

I just ordered mine this morning. How you liking this one so far? Any eye openers?

The first section is pretty intense with the cell biology,histology, and general chemistry so be warned!

The second section discusses the macro/micro nutrients and their practical applications, etc

This is where I am now

No real eye openers yet, but enjoyable to me all the same

bill

 

[KSQ2]

For broadcasting into existing clover and then mowing, what kind of rates do you all use for cereal grains? I’m planning to throw oats, wr, and ww. And I’m planning to mow the clover/grass/forbs quite low. Sorry for my laziness, I think I read on this thread some rates, but I’m not wanting to track them down. If it matters, as I said earlier, I’m also throwing chicory, peas, and radishes. That seed is already purchased.
Also, these plots will be grazed pretty heavily, the deer worked them all over hard last winter.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Fall 2020 mix is ready to go, and all seed has been acquired, except for Winter Rye. Will get planted early to mid August in North Central PA.

Crimson clover
Hubam clover
Frosty Berseem Clover
Hairy Vetch(AU)

Winter Rye
Winter Oats (Buck forage)
Barley (VNS)

Purple Top turnips
Nitro Radish

Chicory
Buckwheat.

 

[MarkDarvin]

For broadcasting into existing clover and then mowing, what kind of rates do you all use for cereal grains? I’m planning to throw oats, wr, and ww. And I’m planning to mow the clover/grass/forbs quite low. Sorry for my laziness, I think I read on this thread some rates, but I’m not wanting to track them down. If it matters, as I said earlier, I’m also throwing chicory, peas, and radishes. That seed is already purchased.
Also, these plots will be grazed pretty heavily, the deer worked them all over hard last winter.

I'm still trying to figure that out. In an existing stand, I'm going to try a full rate of brassicas, along with a 150% rate of cereals (50% winter wheat, 50% oats, 50% barley). I'm also throwing a bunch of extra stuff in. I bet I'll be close to 500-600% of a proper drilled rate. I'm doing that on the assumption most won't take, like sunflower, buckwheat, sorghum, brassicas, jap millet, flax and whatever else I find in the shed.

Ain't going for pretty, or even effective. I want to know what can germinate in that scenario at that time of year. Fine tune it next year. At least this year, I'll get to mow, throw, fluff with the chain harrow, and then pack. First time I'll be able to be the buffalo and reverse engineer a flail mowing without a flail mower.

 

[jlane35]

Fall 2020 mix is ready to go, and all seed has been acquired, except for Winter Rye. Will get planted early to mid August in North Central PA.

Crimson clover
Hubam clover
Frosty Berseem Clover
Hairy Vetch(AU)

Winter Rye
Winter Oats (Buck forage)
Barley (VNS)

Purple Top turnips
Nitro Radish

Chicory
Buckwheat.

I’ve never planted rye before and I’m mixing rye and oats also. I was planning on late August to early Sept. Is that to late for NEPA? Should I move my planting date up closer to your planned date?

 

[RGrizzzz]

Rye and oats are probably ok at those dates. Early frost is always the risk.

 

[jlane35]

Rye and oats are probably ok at those dates. Early frost is always the risk.

You haven’t had to much growth when planting in mid August? If that works for you area it should be good for mine too.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Our mixes last year looked good. We divided the rye into 3 separate plantings. 50% went in the original planting. A few weeks later we broadcast/overseeded 25% more, and again 2-3 weeks later. The pressure on our property is high, so overgrowth isn't much of an issue. This spring, a nice stand came back, and provided early food.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Pretty excited. We picked up a 4' tow behind crimper today. We're all in on no-till plotting. Let's see if we can get this PA red shale dirt actually turned into a quality soil. We limed all of our plots two months ago, so we should be off to a decent start.

 

[Elkaddict]

I’ve never planted rye before and I’m mixing rye and oats also. I was planning on late August to early Sept. Is that to late for NEPA? Should I move my planting date up closer to your planned date?

I think labor day weekend is just about perfect.

 

[jlane35]

Pretty excited. We picked up a 4' tow behind crimper today. We're all in on no-till plotting. Let's see if we can get this PA red shale dirt actually turned into a quality soil. We limed all of our plots two months ago, so we should be off to a decent start.

So a crimper does the work of herbicide on which plants? Rye, buckwheat, wheat? What else?

 

[Mennoniteman]

So a crimper does the work of herbicide on which plants? Rye, buckwheat, wheat? What else?

A crimper works on most annual plants that have a hollow stalk including pokeweed and some others, but most weeds will survive. The system of using a crimper to go notill depends mostly on mature cereals to make it work. If you don't have a thick stand of cereal grain stalks to crimp you're going to be struggling to make crimping worth the fuel to run over the field, and will be depending heavily upon herbicides to clean up what the crimper didn't kill. So if you have a nice plot of rye to crimp the system is going to pay off. If you have a field full of weeds, let the crimper in the barn and get out the sprayer, mower, or disc. To summarize, a heavy seeding of grain needs to be planted in the fall or early spring to suppress weeds and produce something to crimp the following summer.

 

[RGrizzzz]

A crimper works on most annual plants that have a hollow stalk including pokeweed and some others, but most weeds will survive. The system of using a crimper to go notill depends mostly on mature cereals to make it work. If you don't have a thick stand of cereal grain stalks to crimp you're going to be struggling to make crimping worth the fuel to run over the field, and will be depending heavily upon herbicides to clean up what the crimper didn't kill. So if you have a nice plot of rye to crimp the system is going to pay off. If you have a field full of weeds, let the crimper in the barn and get out the sprayer, mower, or disc. To summarize, a heavy seeding of grain needs to be planted in the fall or early spring to suppress weeds and produce something to crimp the following summer.

Generally that's pretty accurate. I'd go a little farther and say it will terminate tall, dense cover crops. Things like buckwheat, vetch, etc. are also on the list.

 

[Jon]

These threads above are spot on, ensure you have a larger component of stemmy plants that are crimpable... in most cases the longer the plant goes into its life cycle before crimping this equates to higher concentrations of carbon input, especially
True with grasses... however this also means it takes longer for the biomass of the plant to breakdown as it peaks in maturity. ..So timing is critical, if you are in the north the decay rate is much slower, that plays into the “when” to crimp factor. I’ve been playing with combos of plantings like this for a bit now and every year you end up with different results.


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[MN Slick]

These threads above are spot on, ensure you have a larger component of stemmy plants that are crimpable... in most cases the longer the plant goes into its life cycle before crimping this equates to higher concentrations of carbon input, especially
True with grasses... however this also means it takes longer for the biomass of the plant to breakdown as it peaks in maturity. ..So timing is critical, if you are in the north the decay rate is much slower, that plays into the “when” to crimp factor. I’ve been playing with combos of plantings like this for a bit now and every year you end up with different results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jon, what seed or seed combos are you having the best luck crimping?