Recreating a Deer Woods

[Chainsaw]

I returned from the Caribbean but the warmth refused to return with me. I start getting nervous when March looks like January. Hopefully this weeks cold and snow doesn’t last much longer. Cool to see the deer target those popples. I am hoping to make it up to camp in the next couple weeks for some scion wood. I have an area I want to clear as well but I will probably wait until the snow is gone, it is mostly brush. Spring is close!

Welcome back Jeremy! These temps are not island weather for sure! The 39 cut poplars were a just in time band aid. The deer have eaten them to the bone so to speak. And today, again they are back in the winter wheat and rye so I think they are ok. They have flirted with showing signs we don't like to see; They haven't been very afraid of my presence within fifty yards some times. Sometimes they flee and sometimes they just lay still. Hopefully the access they now have to the winter wheat/rye will turn them around. Happily I have found only the one dead button buck so far and most mother does still have two of last years fawns with them and couple still have three. Some of the mother does were no doubt fawns when they conceived because it is difficult now to tell the does from the fawns in some cases.

If you would like to add some diversity to your scion wood you are more than welcome to get as much as you want from here.

 

[swat1018]

Thanks Dave, I just ordered 4 dark ops with 16gb cards for $129 per.

The Browning black flash seems to lag behind their other cameras, but I haven't owned one in a few years. Hopefully, they are great. I can tell you I haven't bought a cam since 2016 when i bought about 20 Strike Force. Haven't needed any more cameras since. I can tell you that the Strike Force cams are red flash, but it isn't the ole school "Brake light" style flash, it's pretty subdued. In theory, I would prefer the black flash too, but haven't seen may adverse reactions to the Browning red.

 

[Chainsaw]

Swat, I have four of the black flash and they work really nice. I like that no one else can see them so they can be used in areas apt to catch people as well as deer. Also it is not so much that some deer may react to the flash as some may avoid it the next night or the next. There is no way of knowing if that is happening. During the day some take notice of the camera and some do not. It is really noticeable when it is posted fifteen feet from a bedding spot. Some deer will bed there over and over and others no way! I think it would be interesting to mount a piece of wood the size of the camera with a strap on the tree in plain view at three feet high with a hidden camera watching it to see if the deer react to the harmless wood. I'm thinking they will react to it. We'll see. They are so attuned to their surroundings.

I have some new strike Force Pro with the hinge mount. Haven't tried them yet. Cost was $109.95 shipped for some and $99.95 for others. They all came with a card and eight batteries each as well although that part was left out of the ad! Great deal thanks to Rusty posting that sale on here. There are still a few deals out there right now.

 

[Chummer]

Welcome back Jeremy! These temps are not island weather for sure! The 39 cut poplars were a just in time band aid. The deer have eaten them to the bone so to speak. And today, again they are back in the winter wheat and rye so I think they are ok. They have flirted with showing signs we don't like to see; They haven't been very afraid of my presence within fifty yards some times. Sometimes they flee and sometimes they just lay still. Hopefully the access they now have to the winter wheat/rye will turn them around. Happily I have found only the one dead button buck so far and most mother does still have two of last years fawns with them and couple still have three. Some of the mother does were no doubt fawns when they conceived because it is difficult now to tell the does from the fawns in some cases.

If you would like to add some diversity to your scion wood you are more than welcome to get as much as you want from here.

That would be great Dave. I am looking for mid October through mid November droppers. I have given up on late droppers because many years the deer move out before they hit the ground. I am trying to get the most calories on the ground before the snow starts. Who knows if a week of gorging on apples in October could be the calories that gets a deer through the final days of winter or not. Worth a shot. If I should shoot a deer eating said apples then double bonus.

 

[Chainsaw]

Dave - Great update and pics of the recent hinging you completed. As I've said so many times before, I'm always amazed at how different it is to manage for deer in colder climates, particularly those that receive substantial snow fall. Our only stress period down here is late summer in years when it turns dry. You guys deal with what looks to me like very adverse conditions at the end of winter with so much snow. Your pics definitely show the advantages of hinging to drop winter browse to deer level. We're already seeing the Jap honeysuckle and briars putting on new green growth down here and the grains are starting to pop in a huge way.

Thanks Triple C. This area is very long ways to seeing green growth on briars. It looked like winter was about over; though it has been cold,the deer were up and about feeding well all weekend. Hopefully this little snow squall for the second day in a row is just a nuisance and goes away quickly. Otherwise it will be back to poplar dropping. While the deer numbers do need reducing we are not going to let it happen during this winter/spring food lull. You are right on about "adverse" conditions this time of year here. We strive for higher recruitment rates and attain them but then we eventually end up here where food above the the snow is limited. Sometimes I wonder if our intervention sometimes messes things up rather than helps. It is a rough morning for the deer today. Tomorrow or the next day or surely the next, things will be looking up for them again, hopefully!

 

[Triple C]

Thanks Triple C. This area is very long ways to seeing green growth on briars. It looked like winter was about over; though it has been cold,the deer were up and about feeding well all weekend. Hopefully this little snow squall for the second day in a row is just a nuisance and goes away quickly. Otherwise it will be back to poplar dropping. While the deer numbers do need reducing we are not going to let it happen during this winter/spring food lull. You are right on about "adverse" conditions this time of year here. We strive for higher recruitment rates and attain them but then we eventually end up here where food above the the snow is limited. Sometimes I wonder if our intervention sometimes messes things up rather than helps. It is a rough morning for the deer today. Tomorrow or the next day or surely the next, things will be looking up for them again, hopefully!

View attachment 15020

Dave - That's a frame worthy photo right there!

 

[Chummer]

I love how they lay watching all directions. Survival always the top priority.

 

[pinetag]

Thanks Triple C. This area is very long ways to seeing green growth on briars. It looked like winter was about over; though it has been cold,the deer were up and about feeding well all weekend. Hopefully this little snow squall for the second day in a row is just a nuisance and goes away quickly. Otherwise it will be back to poplar dropping. While the deer numbers do need reducing we are not going to let it happen during this winter/spring food lull. You are right on about "adverse" conditions this time of year here. We strive for higher recruitment rates and attain them but then we eventually end up here where food above the the snow is limited. Sometimes I wonder if our intervention sometimes messes things up rather than helps. It is a rough morning for the deer today. Tomorrow or the next day or surely the next, things will be looking up for them again, hopefully!

View attachment 15020

Very cool pic! Every time I see one bedded down with snow on its back, it always reminds me of the fact that their hair is hollow for insulation purposes. That one will always stick with me.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Chainsaw]

Dave - That's a frame worthy photo right there!

Thanks Triple C. I was especially thrilled to get the shot because the Auto focus wasn't handling the falling snow so I had to switch to manual. In the old days all pics were on manual but these days the eyes don't always see clear as clear so a fairly clear pic with the camera on manual for me is a big deal.

Thanks Pinetag, You are right,with the hollow hair they don't feel the wet and their body heat does not escape to melt the snow but with no sun this morning and blowing snow and the actual temp at 16 degrees it felt like twenty below. On days when it is ten degrees with no wind and the sun comes up, that bedding spot feels like forty degrees. Some mornings all that shows is their heads with their entire bodies covered in two to three inches of snow showing zero signs of melting.They do feel the cold though; when the sun hits that spot they show a much happier relaxed look.

Jeremy, those are a different bunch of deer than the six to seven that usually bed there. The other group of six to seven bedded down below. Evidently bedding areas are not shared with other family groups sometimes. And you are spot on; every deer in both groups are facing different directions. Two eagles were circling this morning; normally they are searching along the creeks for ducks in the open water spots. Them circling here usually means that they are expecting to find weak or dead deer. And sad as it is when I went out today there was an eagle sitting on a carcass on my neighbors property. Being near the road it very well could have been a car hit deer. Pray for sunny days!

 

[farmhunter]

Great picture - hope this last snow missed you -
we got 2" home and 8" at Camp so - we had a little of everything.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thanks Farmhunter, we are good snow wise now and were down to only twenty percent snow covered in the woods a few days ago. We are back to 70% covered in the woods but the new snow is only a few inches deep. The deer are feeding in the rye, wheat and clover fields on and off all day now. Shed hunting has been slow though as the windows with twenty percent snow coverage to date could be measured in hours. Soon though we will be shed hunting again. Hope the eight inches you got goes away quickly.

 

[Chummer]

Made it up for a quick walk before the rain today. I grabbed some scion wood. Still 12-24” of snow. Doesn’t look like any deer wintered at my place. My apple trees had zero browsing on them. I saw 5 deer near town and that was it. We just can’t turn the corner from those back to back killing winters from a few years ago.

 

[Chainsaw]

Made it up for a quick walk before the rain today. I grabbed some scion wood. Still 12-24” of snow. Doesn’t look like any deer wintered at my place. My apple trees had zero browsing on them. I saw 5 deer near town and that was it. We just can’t turn the corner from those back to back killing winters from a few years ago.

Glad you got out Jeremy! I don't have the answer, just questions. Maybe just maybe thirty or forty of the many hundreds and hundreds of deer that moved to the lake area for the winter will relocate back to your section of the Hill. I don't know the answer but suspect that success(grabbing spring disbursing deer) may have everything to do with having an abundance of early spring food bordering great cover which few if any properties are providing. What do you think? Is anyone in your area growing rye and clover against cover safe from coyotes eyes to welcome the spring disbursement deer?

 

[Chummer]

Glad you got out Jeremy! I don't have the answer, just questions. Maybe just maybe thirty or forty of the many hundreds and hundreds of deer that moved to the lake area for the winter will relocate back to your section of the Hill. I don't know the answer but suspect that success(grabbing spring disbursing deer) may have everything to do with having an abundance of early spring food bordering great cover which few if any properties are providing. What do you think? Is anyone in your area growing rye and clover against cover safe from coyotes eyes to welcome the spring disbursement deer?

Just me! There are a few mowed fields within a 3 mile radius but no one plants anything. My theory is pretty grim. I think a select number of deer use to winter around our camp and stayed close to the river. During winter we could sit at camp and count 20-30 deer using the road and coming and going from the river. There was a healthy population that stayed through the winter. I think those two winters killed off 90% of that population of deer. My neighbor counted 17 dead deer the first bad winter within a mile of each other near the river. I think any survivors from that winter died the next. That left us with only the deer that migrated for winter which was a much smaller number. I don’t have an answer how to get that number of deer back. Even with a great apple crop last year there was only a handful of deer all year. I think the only thing that will fix the problem is a string of mild winters. Since we have had one in 15 years I don’t see that happening.

 

[Chainsaw]

You are in an uphill battle for sure Jeremy. However since you are fighting for the long haul it's time to TAKE ACTION NOW. It sounds like a great opportunity to get all types of delicious deer foods growing without hungry deer intervention. Maybe a planted grove of winter survival cover could benefit the deer as well. Continue planting your good size rye field in early to mid August as they may hide a fawn or two come the following June. Plant trees-cut trees-kill trees-release trees-prune trees, build low spots and high spots and trails- let the sun in!. It is a good time to learn coyote trapping and bear killing too because while neither seem to affect the deer population here in a big way they sure do on the Hill. And maybe some of those brier patches like we have here would be a good addition also. They make blackberries without thorns now and they grow huge berries. Family might enjoy them also.
We will be growing more deer here so there will be a lot more dispersing bucks roaming around looking for the right setup. And I'm sure you can remember how fast these deer can re-multiply if and when they get a break. Two make four and four make eight and pretty soon you could have a great herd again. Think twenty years of doubling-yikes that could populate the entire Hill ten times over. The best time to expand on anything is when conditions are at their lowest so this is your shot;give it your all. Make the greatest deer garden ever and a few deer will find it and survive, thrive and maybe double their population each year. It is possible and warmer weather long term is possible and predicted.
Micro manage your deer garden so each plant pays its space via feeding, hiding or keeping deer warm; Quickly replace or reshape those plants that don't pay their space with others that will while the opportunity is here. Design and setup the property not incrementally as needed but entirely with the end goal in mind.Get ready now because the deer will return if there is a special place to return to. The mild winters will come on their own schedule,will your property be ready to capitalize on them when they do?

OR

Just buy a low priced too wet and/or too rocky to farm property down here in the dairy area, enjoy the proximity to the lake along with all of its free recreational benefits, sit back and watch loggers pay you as they convert your new property back to the proper succession stage for deer, throw in a micro food plot or two and take up reloading bullets, because you will have a lot of deer shooting to do.

It seems like a no-brainer to me but I get it.

 

[Chummer]

I like both those plans. First order of business is sell the 70 acres. I have some good micro projects on tap for this spring at camp. I finally have figured out what apples work and what apples don’t. That will free up some time and $$. This should be a great spring for growth on all my shrubs and apples, they weren’t browsed at all this winter. I think I am only 3-4 years away from having a lot more apples on the ground. That will dictate where I go from there.

 

[Chainsaw]

I like both those plans. First order of business is sell the 70 acres. I have some good micro projects on tap for this spring at camp. I finally have figured out what apples work and what apples don’t. That will free up some time and $$. This should be a great spring for growth on all my shrubs and apples, they weren’t browsed at all this winter. I think I am only 3-4 years away from having a lot more apples on the ground. That will dictate where I go from there.

I knew you weren't giving up Jeremy; heck you are more than better than halfway there to having a great deer garden. In fact you have more plant diversity with your plantings than any property I've been to. It is hard to imagine that you haven't sold that 70 yet with it being such a perfect snowmobile setup. The prices people get for over night stays in little shacks in that area is unreal; It must be great in the good snow years but a bust in the bad ones though.

Thinking of the end goal in mind it might be worth considering planting a bed of Miscanthus Giganteus rhizomes if you haven't already. The deer here don't eat it at least here and over a few years a single rhizome grows into lots and lots of rhizomes and it can then be divided and re-planted and possibly be used for a road screen someday without spending a ton of dollars. That is one of projects I have in mind for this property as well.

 

[Chummer]

I knew you weren't giving up Jeremy; heck you are more than better than halfway there to having a great deer garden. In fact you have more plant diversity with your plantings than any property I've been to. It is hard to imagine that you haven't sold that 70 yet with it being such a perfect snowmobile setup. The prices people get for over night stays in little shacks in that area is unreal; It must be great in the good snow years but a bust in the bad ones though.

Thinking of the end goal in mind it might be worth considering planting a bed of Miscanthus Giganteus rhizomes if you haven't already. The deer here don't eat it at least here and over a few years a single rhizome grows into lots and lots of rhizomes and it can then be divided and re-planted and possibly be used for a road screen someday without spending a ton of dollars. That is one of projects I have in mind for this property as well.

Honestly I haven’t tried to sell it yet. I have the sign, waiting for the snow to go to get that up. I am offering owner financing so that should expand the buyer base. I looked at miscanthus once, I didn’t think it would survive the winters here. I will take another look at it.

 

[Chainsaw]

MG grows here just fine and though you may hit colder temps at your camp (our normal coldest each year is minus twenty-five to minus thirty-five) and we have less snow of course. Thus it should work on the HILL. The website says it likes lot of sun and well drained soil but it is growing well in my clay type soil also. I called the company this morning to see what the coldest zone it grows in and they will get back to me when their boss gets in. Even at this time of year we can not see thru the ten ft. wide strip.
https://www.mapleriverfarms.com/

 

[Chummer]

It would certainly be easier than waiting on spruce trees to grow.