Persimmons...how do I love thee...let me count the ways.....

David said:
native, I did some investing at my place today. Found a few that were easy to ID and a few I will ask about later when I can post pics.

one question I did have: I read a fella on a differant forum claim he quit sexing his persimmons after he realized he can get fruit sooner by grafting when the tree in question is 1 inch in diameter at the desired grafting height. claims fruit will come in the third/forth year after grafting on to a 2-4 year old tree. The alternative was to wait for females to produce on their own and that could take 8-12 years.

simply put he grafts all he finds.

what do you think about that idea.
Click to expand...

I’m not Native, but that’s what I’ve started doing. When I find new persimmons, I flag them and go ahead and graft. Waiting to verify doesn’t make sense to me, when you can get earlier fruiting and the drop time/size you want by grafting specific cultivars.

I had flowering on my second leaf on some grafts last year. I pinched them off since the branch wasn’t large enough yet. Hope to have a few persimmons this year on them.


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144 said:
I’m not Native, but that’s what I’ve started doing. When I find new persimmons, I flag them and go ahead and graft. Waiting to verify doesn’t make sense to me, when you can get earlier fruiting and the drop time/size you want by grafting specific cultivars.

I had flowering on my second leaf on some grafts last year. I pinched them off since the branch wasn’t large enough yet. Hope to have a few persimmons this year on them.


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Click to expand...

what is your go to grafting method and how large of a tree are you grafting onto?
 
David said:
what is your go to grafting method and how large of a tree are you grafting onto?
Click to expand...

Most native trees I have are under 2 inches in diameter, as they are root suckers off of old trees that were cut down years ago (I have a pine plantation). I normally use bark grafting, as it is easy and works best on larger rootstocks. If it is smaller, I use cleft grafts. Last year, I started using a method outlined on Red Fern Farms website called Mega-Chipbud Inlay grafting. It’s like a hybrid between bark grafting and chip budding. I have found I like it the best, as you get a lot of cambium contact (3 sides), and I can use a bud per graft, which means I can utilize all buds on a scion (=more chances to get it right).

If I was just starting out, I’d start with bark grafting or cleft grafting. On bark grafting, just make sure you get good cambium contact and pull the cambium from the rootstock tight against the cambium of the scion (electrical tape used backwards works great). Provided it’s tight, you ought to have success.

Here’s my thread when I started in 2017, shows some pictures and details of how I’ve done it. I’m no expert, but shows you that anyone can do it if they put the effort in. Costs almost nothing and is easy/fun to do.

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/persimmon-graft-results.2610/



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David said:
native, I did some investing at my place today. Found a few that were easy to ID and a few I will ask about later when I can post pics.

one question I did have: I read a fella on a differant forum claim he quit sexing his persimmons after he realized he can get fruit sooner by grafting when the tree in question is 1 inch in diameter at the desired grafting height. claims fruit will come in the third/forth year after grafting on to a 2-4 year old tree. The alternative was to wait for females to produce on their own and that could take 8-12 years.

simply put he grafts all he finds.

what do you think about that idea.
Click to expand...

David, I don't disagree with anything he said, but I would like to have a few females around that are from the gene pool of my local ecosystem and not grafted. It might not ever make any difference, but lets just say I have a feeling it is a good thing. Plus, every tree from seed is a new and unique creation, just like every human is. I like a little anticipation of what a new seedling could be. So, I think you weigh the options for your particular situation. I have done what he is doing on a few trees but not all trees.
 
I've planted about 75 persimmons from the state of Oklahoma. I have about 35 living about 15 are "all stars" that are getting some good growth after 4 years.

I put almost all of them in 5' combitubes. I spray once or twice a year and let them be. Get them going and they are hardy. I think 5' may have hurt these tiny seedlings vs. 3' or 4'.

I tried two grafted 3 gallon from chestnuthill and they died. No tubes and they didn't adjust to our random droughts.

I bought 2 from native nurseries this year that i over wintered and am upsizing into 1 and 3 gallon rootmaker IIs.

Ignoring the tubes all the trees above werent terribly expensive. We have several native orchards and a few giant trees but the cows eat them up. They dont get as big on our shallow soils. Persimmons are a great tree and I would recommend them to anyone starting out.

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Here is something else that can be done with persimmons:

They will often appear in little groves with several different sprouts like in the picture below. You can go ahead and topwork a few of the sprouts and let the others grow. If the ones you leave alone turn out to be female, you can later choose between the native female and the one you topworked. Or, if they are far enough apart, you can leave both of them and have two different varieties within a few feet of each other. Hard to go wrong with persimmons...

I just found this little grove of sprouts this weekend at the edge of a ditch where I mow up to. I have marked them with ribbon and will let them grow and use the methodology mentioned above. I can't tell yet if they are male or female, but it doesn't matter - I'm going to have fruit from them one way or the other...Good Lord willing of course....

SeOhFUth.jpg
 
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And yet another way I love thee my precious persimmons - One year after I topworked thee, thou hast grown 11 feet tall and made an abundance of fruit. Not just one tree but several did this - topworked spring of 2018.

8pwLHBs.jpg

tXaPNr2.jpg

Did I forget to mention one year............;)
 
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Hello All, I am brand new to this page and I am interested in learning everything that I can. I currently live in Lexington KY and I just bought an 85ac farm in Franklin Co. This May/Jun I planted 4 grafted American Persimmon Trees and 4 Sawtooth "Gobbler" Oaks. Everything has taken pretty well, so I am interested to see how long it takes to start getting a product. All the trees I planted were between 4'-5' tall. I have been watering these trees like crazy and all (8) are getting full sun every day.

I am getting ready to head to Iraq with the KY National Guard, and I will be home next Jun. So I am hoping that by the time I get home, I will be able to see some big time progress in my trees.
 
BUddy B said:
Hello All, I am brand new to this page and I am interested in learning everything that I can. I currently live in Lexington KY and I just bought an 85ac farm in Franklin Co. This May/Jun I planted 4 grafted American Persimmon Trees and 4 Sawtooth "Gobbler" Oaks. Everything has taken pretty well, so I am interested to see how long it takes to start getting a product. All the trees I planted were between 4'-5' tall. I have been watering these trees like crazy and all (8) are getting full sun every day.

I am getting ready to head to Iraq with the KY National Guard, and I will be home next Jun. So I am hoping that by the time I get home, I will be able to see some big time progress in my trees.
Click to expand...

Welcome, and best luck with your trees. Also thanks for your National Guard service!
 
Native, could you point me to a thread that talks about how to topwork a persimmon tree? I'm assuming that you graft a tree once they are big enough to determine that they are a male. I've got some trees coming and I'm interested in where in the scaffold you put your grafts and average of how many grafts you do per tree?
 
Mennoniteman said:
Native, could you point me to a thread that talks about how to topwork a persimmon tree? I'm assuming that you graft a tree once they are big enough to determine that they are a male. I've got some trees coming and I'm interested in where in the scaffold you put your grafts and average of how many grafts you do per tree?
Click to expand...

Mennoniteman, you use the same techniques for persimmons that you do for apples. However, persimmons are done a little later because they come out of dormancy later in the spring than apples. All of my topworking has been done by "bark grafting" but "cleft grafting" works well too. My recommendation would be to go to YouTube and do a search for these two techniques. There used to be some good videos there.

Cut your scion wood while it is dormant and store in the fridge until you are ready to use it. Do the topworking when the tree is coming out of dormancy and the bark is "slipping." Once the grafts start growing, I brace them with cane poles for the first year. Strong winds can break them off if you don't brace them.

PS: You don't have to wait to see if they are a male. If you have a variety that you really like, go ahead and graft it to the wild tree before it ever reveals its sex. Good luck my friend!
 
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Mennoniteman said:
Native, could you point me to a thread that talks about how to topwork a persimmon tree? I'm assuming that you graft a tree once they are big enough to determine that they are a male. I've got some trees coming and I'm interested in where in the scaffold you put your grafts and average of how many grafts you do per tree?
Click to expand...

There is a good article in quality whitetails June/July 2011 titled "Grafting Persimmons" available for free download

bill
 
Grafting to a tree with an established root system is appealing

My favorite fruit tree....... any tree I can get to grow here in the Texas heat....

bill
 
TreeDaddy said:
Grafting to a tree with an established root system is appealing

My favorite fruit tree....... any tree I can get to grow here in the Texas heat....

bill
Click to expand...

One thing about East Texas, persimmon trees seem to be everywhere, at least along I20.

I go out to Dallas each Oct/Nov to visit family and notice them all along the highway. I’ve been tempted to pull over and put some flagging on them, so I can come back February and pull some scions from them. Some of those younger trees are loaded, usually see them between the Waskom and Tyler.


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Native, I found another fairly mature persimmon on my place this morning on the upper 20 acres! I already cut a few trees around it but after the season I will fully release it and hope it turns out to be a female. Currently there are no fruits but it is mixed in with other mature trees of the canopy so we'll see what next year holds.
02c345788ed3228084051e26f1a6938b.jpg


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pinetag said:
Native, I found another fairly mature persimmon on my place this morning on the upper 20 acres! I already cut a few trees around it but after the season I will fully release it and hope it turns out to be a female. Currently there are no fruits but it is mixed in with other mature trees of the canopy so we'll see what next year holds.
02c345788ed3228084051e26f1a6938b.jpg


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Click to expand...

I will be surprised if that one is a female. A female tree that big will usually be able to make a least some fruit, even if it is crowded really bad. However, keep an eye on it and see what happens.
 
We are fortunate to have found several Persimmons growing on our Lease. Last year the one that is Full Grown was loaded with fruit-- Until Hurricane Michael come through and knocked them all off.

Since then I have located and cleaned the area around two to three more that are all within one of my Stands. While they are small yet it should be just a few years before they start producing well.

Question: Any tips for fertilizer or anything that can be put around the Drip Line to help them mature and start fruiting?
 
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