Persimmons...how do I love thee...let me count the ways.....

[pinetag]

Well Native, I found another mature persimmon down near the creek yesterday. That makes #4 for existing mature trees. Gotta have some luck with one of these. I'm going to cut that poison ivy vine off at the root on this one and then check them all for spring blooms next year.

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[Native Hunter]

Well Native, I found another mature persimmon down near the creek yesterday. That makes #4 for existing mature trees. Gotta have some luck with one of these. I'm going to cut that poison ivy vine off at the root on this one and then check them all for spring blooms next year.

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That's a nice size. You may need a bucket truck to check the flowers on that one.

 

[Native Hunter]

A Civil War Persimmon Tree Story from the Library of Congress

Source: https://www.loc.gov/resource/wpalh3.33011210/?sp=3&st=text

“Another interesting incident father was fond of telling was the story of the persimmon tree, when they marched on Nashville, Tennessee, under General Hoods campaign, during the days of the Confederate struggle. I will try to tell it in his own words. After the fall of Atlanta we marched northward into Tennessee over frozen ground and how cold it was! Our shoes were worn out and our feet were torn and bleeding. As I marched over the rough frozen road I tore up one of my two shirts and made bandages of it to ease the pain. We endured great hardships, the snow was on the ground and there was no food. Out rations were a few grains of parched corn. When we reached the vicinity of Nashville we were very hungry and we began to search for food. Over in a valley stood a tree which seemed to be loaded with fruit. It was a frost bitten persimmon tree, but as I look back over my whole life, never have I tasted any food which would compare with these persimmons.” Not many years ago father walked with me to see a farm which he had recently bought, in it there stood a persimmon tree which was taking from the productiveness of the soil for a large size space surrounding it. I said, “Why do you leave that persimmon tree standing here in the way of farming?” Then he told me the story of the persimmon tree back in the days when they marched on Nashville and said, “Son, when I am gone, I want you to see that this tree is spared and let it be a reminder to all of you of my gratitude to God for the other tree which fed as in those days gone by.” I promised and the tree stands today.

 

[Bottomland]

Does anyone have any special variety persimmon scions they would like to share? I’m looking for some

 

[Mennoniteman]

I thought the same thing much of my life and then found out it wasn’t true for all native persimmons. There are many natives that ripen way before any frost.

That’s a good thing because I’m getting persimmons dropping from the first of September all the way into January.

Looks like my Pennsylvania journey with persimmons might be pretty short. Last year I purchased 6 female grafted persimmons and twenty 18" American persimmon seedlings. They all started nicely, but it looks like the survival rates after winter are going to be low, especially on the grafted trees. Would you think that we are just too far north for persimmons? Or maybe I did something else wrong?

 

[Native Hunter]

Looks like my Pennsylvania journey with persimmons might be pretty short. Last year I purchased 6 female grafted persimmons and twenty 18" American persimmon seedlings. They all started nicely, but it looks like the survival rates after winter are going to be low, especially on the grafted trees. Would you think that we are just too far north for persimmons? Or maybe I did something else wrong?

In Zone 6a I would think you should be able to grow them. Most references say Zones 5-9 with some special cultivars going into Zone 4. Below is a good link that shows the native range and gives more info.

Make sure you get the hole deep enough so that the tap root will be pointed down. With a persimmon, getting the hole deep enough is just as important as getting it wide enough. I've had bad luck with grafted trees myself. It's also hard to transplant a seedling that is too big, but knee high or less should live okay as long as you get that tap root going down.

http://www.treetrail.net/diospyros.html

 

[willy]

My persimmons are just breaking dormancy so they will have to be my fruit providers this year. Its looking pretty bleak with everything else because of a week of frost. They started producing a few fruits 2 or 3 years ago. No bumper crops but they won't freeze out it looks like. I have Prok and meader and perhaps one other kind. I planted 8 and 7 made it. The one that died was destroyed by deer or coons and didn't recover. They came from Stark Bros

 

[Native Hunter]

It's that time of year.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Looks like my Pennsylvania journey with persimmons might be pretty short. Last year I purchased 6 female grafted persimmons and twenty 18" American persimmon seedlings. They all started nicely, but it looks like the survival rates after winter are going to be low, especially on the grafted trees. Would you think that we are just too far north for persimmons? Or maybe I did something else wrong?

I planted 3 grafted trees in 17771 two falls ago. They were alive last summer, although growing SLOWLY.

 

[Kurt]

If a guy plants seedlings in an area with high deer concentration and some rabbits, assuming tree tubes are a good idea? If so, thoughts on best size tubes? I've got to try these though not sure how they'll do as far west as Hays, KS.

 

[jteeen]

If a guy plants seedlings in an area with high deer concentration and some rabbits, assuming tree tubes are a good idea? If so, thoughts on best size tubes? I've got to try these though not sure how they'll do as far west as Hays, KS.

I tubed all of mine and the survival rate has been poor. I also planted them on a rocky hillside which is not their preferred soil type.

I planted bare roots from the state about 5 years ago. I have a few out of the top of 5' tubes, the rest died or are still tiny. I would cage them.

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[Native Hunter]

If a guy plants seedlings in an area with high deer concentration and some rabbits, assuming tree tubes are a good idea? If so, thoughts on best size tubes? I've got to try these though not sure how they'll do as far west as Hays, KS.

I'm just not a tube type of guy, so I will withhold my opinion. I don't see persimmons browsed here, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen somewhere else. But, any tree - regardless of type - can be a rubbing target on my land.

 

[RGrizzzz]

If a guy plants seedlings in an area with high deer concentration and some rabbits, assuming tree tubes are a good idea? If so, thoughts on best size tubes? I've got to try these though not sure how they'll do as far west as Hays, KS.

5' tubes. Anything shorter and the deer will eat them tops.

 

[ng270]

I tried 25 persimmon seedlings in tubes in 2012 right after I bought my place. None of them made it past year 3. Never really got their feet under them, but not because of browsing. Meanwhile 25 plums and 50 pin oaks planted and tubed at the same time in the same areas had less than 10% loss over the whole nine years since they were planted so it wasn't drought, weed pressure, etc that did in the persimmons.

I didn't try planting persimmons again because I've found that the ones the coons and coyotes plant on my property grow just fine while I ignore them. I don't see any evidence that deer browse them but as Native mentioned, they rub them sometimes.

 

[Native Hunter]

I went out checking some persimmons this afternoon and felt like I really hit the jackpot.

First, I checked 3 trees that were topworked 3 years ago, and all of them are loaded with female flowers.

Second, I checked 4 native seedlings (probably 7-9 years old) that just came up on their on in good locations not close to each other. I had fenced these this spring. All 4 of the native seedlings had female flowers and 2 of them were literally loaded. So, I will have 7 new persimmon trees producing fruit this fall.

First pic below is one of the seedlings in native grass that was mowed not long ago.
Second Pic is female flowers on a persimmon tree.
Last Pic is male flowers - just in case anyone needs to see these.

Yes, I know - need to go buy a lottery ticket today.....

 

[Native Hunter]

I saw something this year that I had never seen before - persimmon scions making flowers the year they were topworked. It only happened on one tree, and it was where I topworked to Lehman's Delight. I've seen flowers and even had significant fruit the next year after topworking, but surprised to see this the first year.

 

[Native Hunter]

Two years ago, this seedling persimmon (about 12 years old) produced the grand total of one persimmon as its first crop. I stood in the bed of the truck and found the one fruit. Two years later, every limb is covered with fruit. They are slow to start, but can really take off fast once they get started. This year all of my persimmons are loaded. I could feed all of the deer in the state.

 

[KSQ2]

Looks great Native! Unfortunately, my top working of trees, behind the house, this spring didn't take. Below the cut the male "stumps" are sprouting out suckers like crazy, but the scions didn't take for some reason.

Does anyone have a source for persimmon trees they'd recommend? I'm thinking about putting a few in the cages next spring. We had a few pears from several years ago that didn't make it and I'd like to put some trees in the empty spots. Do any nurseries guarantee that they are selling female trees? I believe we have a coupe natives popping up in the barnyard, but I'm going to assume they'll turn out to be males. It's amazing how tough they are, they been rubbed the last couple falls and just keep right on growing.

 

[Native Hunter]

Looks great Native! Unfortunately, my top working of trees, behind the house, this spring didn't take. Below the cut the male "stumps" are sprouting out suckers like crazy, but the scions didn't take for some reason.

Does anyone have a source for persimmon trees they'd recommend? I'm thinking about putting a few in the cages next spring. We had a few pears from several years ago that didn't make it and I'd like to put some trees in the empty spots. Do any nurseries guarantee that they are selling female trees? I believe we have a coupe natives popping up in the barnyard, but I'm going to assume they'll turn out to be males. It's amazing how tough they are, they been rubbed the last couple falls and just keep right on growing.

Let those trees grow back a couple of years and try topworking them again. They aren't going to die or be harmed from the failed grafting attempt. You can go just below the other cut or train one of the suckers to go up and topwork it. I would just cut below the last cut if I were you and do it again next year.

To get a guaranteed female, you have to buy a grafted tree. There are lots of places that sell them, and sometimes they will have different varieties you can choose from. They generally cost more than grafted apples or pears. I bought 6 one time from a place that is now out of business. I think that was 2014, and this year they are really putting out for the first time. The reason it took so long for me is because I planted them in horrible ground. I had no idea it was so rocky and hard at that spot, but that was where I wanted them. I really don't have any place to recommend, but any nursery that is reliable for other fruit should also be reliable for persimmons.

 

[F12Mahon]

I ordered 25 each of persimmon and black cherry from Mason State Tree Nursery. Bare root stock with approx 80% survival after planting this spring.Never thought to ask about male and female. Kind of assumed there likely would be some of each. They have trees native to IL.

Eugene

https://www2.illinois.gov/dnr/conservation/Forestry/Pages/Tree-Nurseries.aspx