Is brassica allopathic?

[Mennoniteman]

I want to plant ladino clover this spring after fall brassica, (der,ghr,ptt) and never did this before. I just read on one site that brassica is allopathic and therefore clover won't establish well. Does anyone know anything about this, or planted clover right after brassica, with lots of rotting bulbs in the field?

 

[swat1018]

I've never heard that. Paul Knox always recommended frost seeding Medium red and oats into spent brassicas. I've done it many times.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure allopathic effects only inhibit grasses. I wouldn’t worry about it, especially because I’ve heard of people planting clover with brassicas and having no problems


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[Chipdasqrrl]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure allopathic effects only inhibit grasses. I wouldn’t worry about it, especially because I’ve heard of people planting clover with brassicas and having no problems


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It doesn’t effect all grasses though.. I know some grasses like oats and rye have the same effect as brassicas so it wouldn’t hurt them


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[George]

I always spread clover over my brassica, more symbiotic than allopathic, just frost seed.

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

Thanks guys, thats what I always heard until I read this;
http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/foodplots/brassicas/planting-and-growing-brassicas/
In the last paragraph at the bottom he says "Frost seeding clover into a spent brassica plot the following spring is an option but allopathic chemicals are released by the rotting brassicas and commonly cause problems to the clover"

Where'd he come up with"commonly causes problems" Is this a case of bad advice by so-called experts?

 

[MarkDarvin]

Thanks guys, thats what I always heard until I read this;
http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/foodplots/brassicas/planting-and-growing-brassicas/
In the last paragraph at the bottom he says "Frost seeding clover into a spent brassica plot the following spring is an option but allopathic chemicals are released by the rotting brassicas and commonly cause problems to the clover"

Where'd he come up with"commonly causes problems" Is this a case of bad advice by so-called experts?

I bet he missed something else and blamed it on the brassicas. There are all kinds of soil benefits from a rotting down brassica crop. If you don't have the SARE book, get it. Every food plotter should have one. Here's the brassica page:

https://www.sare.org/Learning-Cente.../Nonlegume-Cover-Crops/Brassicas-and-Mustards

 

[dogghr]

Technically all plants would have some allopathic affect on competition simply because they prefer their own kind. Just some are much more aggressive in the affect than others whether it be trees, shrubs, grasses, etc. I plant grain and clover into spent brassica each year anywhere from Nov to April. Always does great. Brassica are just perfect soil busting fertilizer for the next rotation.

 

[j-bird]

One of the best stands of red clover I have ever had came in a BOB mix that was brassica and some other things along with the clover. The brassica did great that fall and then come spring I had the clover.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

One of the best stands of red clover I have ever had came in a BOB mix that was brassica and some other things along with the clover. The brassica did great that fall and then come spring I had the clover.

When did you plant it? I want to try that but I don’t know if I can get away with planting clover in a July planting that is needed for the brassicas to produce bulbs


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[j-bird]

When did you plant it? I want to try that but I don’t know if I can get away with planting clover in a July planting that is needed for the brassicas to produce bulbs


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Below is all the same plot. I planted a mix of all sorts of stuff. I planted in Aug as I had a failed corn plot (water issue). As you can see the conditions where not great, but it's deer food! The clover was simply something that was in the mix and was never my intention. I wanted fall food, but the clover came on so well and the deer liked it I couldn't bring myself to till it under. I am not sure what it will look like this year to be honest. To be honest if I was to try to do this on purpose - I would essentially frost seed the clover into the brassica. This was all accidental - sometimes it's better to be lucky, than good!

 

[Elkaddict]

If I recall correctly, LC said completely spent/consumed plots were not a problem. Partially spent plots could be. I know my frost seeding attempts have had only mixed results.....

 

[Native Hunter]

Brassicas in winter in first pic - and clover + chicory the next spring at same spot in second pic.

 

[davidhelmly]

Brassicas in winter in first pic - and clover + chicory the next spring at same spot in second pic.

Native Hunter, that looks amazing!! Did you frost seed the clover/chicory into the brassica?

 

[Native Hunter]

Native Hunter, that looks amazing!! Did you frost seed the clover/chicory into the brassica?

Thanks David. It was all planted in the fall at the same time. The brassicas dominated in the fall, and the next spring the clover and chicory came on strong.

 

[davidhelmly]

Thanks David. It was all planted in the fall at the same time. The brassicas dominated in the fall, and the next spring the clover and chicory came on strong.

That's certainly food for thought, I normally plant cereal grain with my brassica but have never tried clover with it. I overseeded all of my brassica plots with clover a few weeks back, I'm hoping for a decent germination to keep something growing all year.

 

[MK111]

Native Hunter I wish I would have thought that last fall when I planted my turnip-radish mix.
But tomorrow I should receive my delivery of GRO clover mix and going to sow it ASAP and convert the plot to a year around clover plot.

 

[Laker]

So how would a guy go about converting this amazing clover and chicory plot over to a Fall plot for gun season in Northern climate? Could he simply burn it with GLY to set back the clover and seed it with his favorite brassica mix them mow or drag?

 

[MK111]

In SW Ohio the deer feed in my clover plots 12 months of the year. I would never get rid of a good clover plot to plant a fall plot.

I do plant oats and turnip-radish fall plots but watch the deer feed in the clover during Nov-Dec hunting season. Only after several hard killing frost do the deer feed in the radish-turnip plot then go to the clover to finish feeding.

This is my experience for 6 food plot seasons.

 

[Laker]

I wish I could count on that. I'm in Northern MN near Canada and I end up with a foot or two of snow as often as not. On the years I don't have snow, I'm nearly always pretty far along into a solid freeze. It seems like life sure would be simpler if a guy could rely on a solid clover plot year round. Maybe I'm wrong. I've got a skinny, winding plot that's about 50' wide on average, and two acres in total. For some reason, I just can't abide by breaking that up into something less than half to try a classic LC rotation. What I want to do is open it up a little so I have three acres of plot.

With three acres of plot, I could divide it into three nice chunks. That's just how my brain works and if I don't have evenly divisible things then I'd be doing math on seeding rates in my head every night when I go to bed. I'm a little neurotic about things sometimes. I overthink most everything, then end up doing next to nothing. Almost always manage to kill a deer though.....

Anybody else in the far north (Zone 3a) rely on clover through gun season? Though I've been hunting deer for a lot of years, I'm only on season two of land ownership. Last Fall I just planted WR. It grew great. I've got a soil test and will apply Lime, NPK per the results.