Firminator vs. Kasco Plotter's Choice

DRandall90

Active Member
Going to pick one of these two up. Anyone have experience with both? Or suggestions on what they would recommend? I plan to use them in some more open areas, planting anything from screens to crops, but will also need to get them back into some hidey holes in the woods. I would be pulling these with either a larger UTV or tractor.

Firminator:
Cost (for me): $6589 w/ shipping
http://www.thefirminator.com/firminator.html

Plotter's choice:
Cost: $7500
https://kascomfg.com/drillsseeders/plotters-choice-food-plot-planters

I realize there are more cost effective (more time intensive) ways to get the job done, but I really have limited time with the addition of kids so my wife would rather me spend the money and save the time at this point.
 
Looks great but I am looking for something that (if needed) I could pull it with a (large) ATV/UTV. My tractors won't quite fit down many of my trails in the woods.
DR...Widen your trails and buy the tractor version. Just too much stress on an ATV/UTV to utilize these pieces of equipment. I own a Plotmaster and my next purchase will be the Woods seeder or the Firminator. Haven't looked at Kasco. Both are well built. I don't know anything about the Kasco. I've looked at both the Woods and Firminator. Both are built like tanks. I've always liked the looks of the Woods and the quality of the build. One pass planters are truly just that once you get the hang of it. When it germinates, you will swear it was planted with a drill.
 
looks like a good piece of equipment

what is the difference from a land pride or great plains 3pt 606NT?

bill
I’m sure there are options on both that affect the price but comparing 6’ to 6’ online the Woods are a little over half as much. That being said I don’t think the Woods and GP are really comparable, I’ve never used a GP but it appears to be a much more solid machine, it was just out of my price range just for plots.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listin...t-grain-drills/manufacturer/woods/model/fps72

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listin...le/list/manufacturer/great-plains/model/606nt
 
I see discs. I thought those were bad for soil health?

I am not sure if you are serious, or jokingly asking that question. The disks on a woods seeder can be adjusted from being extremely aggressive with a lot of weight on them to a position that is almost straight in line with the direction of planting that just cuts a groove in the dirt. Probably half my work with a woods seeder is with the disk gang set pretty high up, where it digs maybe an inch deep and actually disturbs only about half the soil surface. I plant wheat into my existing clover stands without destroying my clover.
 
DR...Widen your trails and buy the tractor version. Just too much stress on an ATV/UTV to utilize these pieces of equipment. I own a Plotmaster and my next purchase will be the Woods seeder or the Firminator. Haven't looked at Kasco. Both are well built. I don't know anything about the Kasco. I've looked at both the Woods and Firminator. Both are built like tanks. I've always liked the looks of the Woods and the quality of the build. One pass planters are truly just that once you get the hang of it. When it germinates, you will swear it was planted with a drill.

I would totally do this if possible. 2 out of the 3 properties I really don't have the option to widen trails per the landowner. I don't intend to hammer the utv, as I'll mostly be using the tractor, but I do want to have the utv/atv option.
 
I see discs. I thought those were bad for soil health?
That's a great question, with all of the information about tillage being bad for soil structure and microbes. The answer, according to my friend with a 9 yr degree is soils biology, is that discing a field 2 inches deep is not nearly as harmful as moldboard plowing, and the inline cutting discs on a notill planter do almost no harm at all to the soil. Soil health is measured and compared after the tillage operation by looking at, and measuring soil microorganisms such as bacteria, actinomycetes, fungi, algae and protozoa. Discing 2" deep rearranges these microbes and removes some of their protective cover. Plowing kills a lot of them. The net population however, is very close to the same numbers after a no-till planting, as no-till discs don't really affect soil health at all.
 
That's a great question, with all of the information about tillage being bad for soil structure and microbes. The answer, according to my friend with a 9 yr degree is soils biology, is that discing a field 2 inches deep is not nearly as harmful as moldboard plowing, and the inline cutting discs on a notill planter do almost no harm at all to the soil. Soil health is measured and compared after the tillage operation by looking at, and measuring soil microorganisms such as bacteria, actinomycetes, fungi, algae and protozoa. Discing 2" deep rearranges these microbes and removes some of their protective cover. Plowing kills a lot of them. The net population however, is very close to the same numbers after a no-till planting, as no-till discs don't really affect soil health at all.

Thank you for the response. With all the talk of no-till, throw and mow, and regenerative food plotting, along with numerous posts from experienced food plotters saying something along the lines of “leave the disc in the barn or sell it”, I couldn’t help but wonder why someone would make a substantial new investment in a disc-based food plotting implement.

I kind of assumed that companies that make products like the Firminator have to be cringing at the growing movement to get away from discing, plowing and spraying. There have been a number of threads on this and other sites that seem to suggest such implements are not only unnecessary, but harmful.

And this is coming from an ATV food-plotter (me) who owns 2 discs and a sprayer...
 
Thank you for the response. With all the talk of no-till, throw and mow, and regenerative food plotting, along with numerous posts from experienced food plotters saying something along the lines of “leave the disc in the barn or sell it”, I couldn’t help but wonder why someone would make a substantial new investment in a disc-based food plotting implement.

I kind of assumed that companies that make products like the Firminator have to be cringing at the growing movement to get away from discing, plowing and spraying. There have been a number of threads on this and other sites that seem to suggest such implements are not only unnecessary, but harmful.

And this is coming from an ATV food-plotter (me) who owns 2 discs and a sprayer...

The Kasco is a no-till drill and the firminator you don't need to cut super deep, and the overall benefit to me is the single pass (hopefully) from till/seed/pack over some of the other systems.

I've definitely done my share of throw and mow. I've had really good success is some areas. Other areas not nearly as effective. I would love to frost seed more, but we have had so much snow that my fields tend to be flooded in spring and the seed gets washed to the creek and then I have a mud pit.

I don't want to plow it up, so light discing/no till planting is my target to amend my soil. Along with some hopeful engineering controls to help drainage.
 
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The Kasco is a no-till drill and the firminator you don't need to cut super deep, and the overall benefit to me is the single pass (hopefully) from till/seed/pack over some of the other systems.

I've definitely done my share of throw and mow. I've had really good success is some areas. Other areas not nearly as effective. I would love to frost seed more, but we have had so much snow that my fields tend to be flooded in spring and the seed gets washed to the creek and then I have a mud pit.

I don't want to plow it up, so light discing/no till planting is my target to amend my soil. Along with some hopeful engineering controls to help drainage.
These one-pass planters are truly that if you correctly prep the field. Took this pic last Oct while planting abruzzi rye. This field was mowed and then sprayed with gly about 3 weeks ahead of the planting. Once the grasses and other stuff are completely dead, then we plant with one pass. Set the disc where they disturb the top couple of inches of soil. A slight furrow is created and the seed box drops the seeds into the furrows. The steel mats and cultipacker do a decent job of closing the furrow and firming the soil.

If you do not spray the field first and allow it to completely die, then these units are not anywhere close to a one-pass planter. They don't do well planting in to growing matter, particularly summer grasses that take over in a lot of fields. Been using this Plotmaster since 2011 and after a couple of years of trial and error, finally figured out that heavy discing wasn't necessary. Key is to kill what's growing first and then plant into the dead thatch in one pass with light downward pressure on the disc to just open the ground. The green you see growing to the left and behind the unit is clover with grass infestation that I did not spray. It would not do very well planting directly into that. This unit is 10 years old and still going strong. I just like the more compact design of the Woods and Firminator over the Plotmaster. Haven't seen a Kasco to compare.
Plotmaster in bean field.jpg

Took this pic almost from the same place last weekend. Abruzzi rye did it's thing. Darker shade of green is ladino and durana clover. Fed a lot of deer from Nov thru now.
Bean field 20200313.jpg
 
I'm dealing with a guy that wants to build this awesome new style ground prep machine(he's still in the design phase) that he thinks will be a better option than what's currently on the market. The reason he thinks his product will be better(I guarantee it won't be) is because the plotmaster they bought back in '04 finally wore out. They did not know how to use it properly and apparently are the type that don't bother reading manufacturers suggestions on how to use the plotmaster. Triple c just gave an awesome review with honest feedback on the correct way these things need to work as advertised. My guy was complaining the thing only lasted 13 years while never being greased, driven in the wrong direction the entire time they owned it and then think they have a better product in mind. If people can comprehend directions for use(or just follow everything TripleC just stated above---they will work. Now I'm trying to explain to this guy the massive expense getting something like this to market. I can't say what's different with this vs things that are on the market currently but can say that I seriously doubt it has any chance to even survive the research and development stage. Using equipment the right way will make all the difference in the world. Instructions say to only take left hand corners and they only turned right with it for 13 years.
 
I'm dealing with a guy that wants to build this awesome new style ground prep machine(he's still in the design phase) that he thinks will be a better option than what's currently on the market. The reason he thinks his product will be better(I guarantee it won't be) is because the plotmaster they bought back in '04 finally wore out. They did not know how to use it properly and apparently are the type that don't bother reading manufacturers suggestions on how to use the plotmaster. Triple c just gave an awesome review with honest feedback on the correct way these things need to work as advertised. My guy was complaining the thing only lasted 13 years while never being greased, driven in the wrong direction the entire time they owned it and then think they have a better product in mind. If people can comprehend directions for use(or just follow everything TripleC just stated above---they will work. Now I'm trying to explain to this guy the massive expense getting something like this to market. I can't say what's different with this vs things that are on the market currently but can say that I seriously doubt it has any chance to even survive the research and development stage. Using equipment the right way will make all the difference in the world. Instructions say to only take left hand corners and they only turned right with it for 13 years.

I am actually impressed it lasted 13 years with little to no maintenance. With the exception of my single row Covington Planter - every seeder I have been around needs some maintenance - even the over the shoulder bag seeders - and generally, the more complicated, the more maintenance. I know with my Woods Seeder, you are setting yourself up for an hour or two of difficult cleaning if you ever leave seed in the seed boxes for extended periods. Most also have a lot of grease fittings. My general use disk wouldn't last 13 years with no greasing. And my disk that has the bearings you can not grease - have had some of those bearings go out.
 
I thought he was giving a pretty damn good review of that plotmaster while he thinks he's complaining about a crappy product. Maintenance is important for sure. I had bearings go out on my disc at home and after to have to go through the process to replace those bearings you care a lot more about checking things over and keeping a close eye on things as you are using it---live and learn. That's why sites like this are so helpful to anyone willing to listen to feedback from others about what works the best and what doesn't work at all.
 
These one-pass planters are truly that if you correctly prep the field. Took this pic last Oct while planting abruzzi rye. This field was mowed and then sprayed with gly about 3 weeks ahead of the planting. Once the grasses and other stuff are completely dead, then we plant with one pass. Set the disc where they disturb the top couple of inches of soil. A slight furrow is created and the seed box drops the seeds into the furrows. The steel mats and cultipacker do a decent job of closing the furrow and firming the soil.

If you do not spray the field first and allow it to completely die, then these units are not anywhere close to a one-pass planter. They don't do well planting in to growing matter, particularly summer grasses that take over in a lot of fields. Been using this Plotmaster since 2011 and after a couple of years of trial and error, finally figured out that heavy discing wasn't necessary. Key is to kill what's growing first and then plant into the dead thatch in one pass with light downward pressure on the disc to just open the ground. The green you see growing to the left and behind the unit is clover with grass infestation that I did not spray. It would not do very well planting directly into that. This unit is 10 years old and still going strong. I just like the more compact design of the Woods and Firminator over the Plotmaster. Haven't seen a Kasco to compare.
View attachment 18389

Took this pic almost from the same place last weekend. Abruzzi rye did it's thing. Darker shade of green is ladino and durana clover. Fed a lot of deer from Nov thru now.
View attachment 18390


Is that a draw bar implement or a three point hookup ? I can’t tell from the pic for sure but it looks to be draw bar.
 
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