at least 60% of oaks on a property be from the red oak section.???

[shedder]

http://www.nativnurseries.com/p-23-shumard-oak-quercus-shumardii.aspx

" It also must be a red oak because biologists recommend at least 60% of oaks on a property be from the red oak section. "

I saw this and wondered why?

 

[dogghr]

Typically foresters who manage for wildlife, particularly WT, recommend 2 or 3 to 1 red oak to white oak. Couple reasons, reds tend to drop at least some acorns yearly to some extent even tho they take 2 years to mature on the stem. Secondly, due to tannins in the red oak nut, and that they require cold stratification to germinate, unlike the whites, they can remain viable for food thru the fall and into spring. Finally, red oak is preferred typically over white for its timber value. But personally, I want the white oaks any day of the week for hunting.

 

[OkieKubota]

Red oaks in our area were hit hard by oak wilt in 2011/2012 due to the massive heat wave/drought we had. This was before we purchased this property but I was familiar with it as it was family land. Used to have about 1/2 red and 1/2 white...now it is heavily skewed to white with lots of red oak carcasses around...

 

[j-bird]

I have no idea about that ratio sited. I agree a good mix of reds/whites would be most beneficial.....but I don't know about any particular ratio.

 

[Mennoniteman]

White oaks seem to be hardier and more disease resistant than all the other oaks here in pa, but grow slower and propagate slower, so in most woods there's more red, black and chestnut oaks, but if there's a really big oak like 3'across the stump it's almost always a white oak. Chestnut oaks, also known as rock oaks, are the most prevalent in sprouting, and fast growing, but rarely get bigger than 20" until they die. I've often wondered how much this oak tree ratio is influenced by the white oak acorns being tastier than rock oak acorns.

 

[Nebraskaz71]

I know they say that but I stick to pretty much all white oak, personal preference i guess

 

[shedder]

Typically foresters who manage for wildlife, particularly WT, recommend 2 or 3 to 1 red oak to white oak. Couple reasons, reds tend to drop at least some acorns yearly to some extent even tho they take 2 years to mature on the stem. Secondly, due to tannins in the red oak nut, and that they require cold stratification to germinate, unlike the whites, they can remain viable for food thru the fall and into spring. Finally, red oak is preferred typically over white for its timber value. But personally, I want the white oaks any day of the week for hunting.

That was my guess but I was still surprised. Thanks

 

[Chainsaw]

You bring up an interesting topic Shedder. Numbers like the 60 % red oak number you are questioning or like the 10% food plot number often used are great guidelines but sure don't apply on all properties. I think for us it is important to look at the purpose of the food plots, oak trees, pear trees or apple trees or whatever the plant type. For example is a red oak tree that provides acorns that last thru winter as beneficial or even necessary to the deer herds' health in say Dogghr's in West Virginia location as they are in your Canada location.

The white oak likely draws more deer to a property during fall with all else being equal but is not around for winter feed. However presumably the property might have more browse on it left for winter feed because the deer weren't forced to go heavy on the browse due to acorn availability. Thus it could be said that the white oak does help deer through the winter by enabling more browse to be available to say nothing of the better condition the deer could be in from having abundant white acorns through the fall.

The red oak likely wouldn't draw as many deer as white oaks in the fall if other properties had white oaks but the acorns are usable all winter. However under five feet of packed snow the red oak acorns are not accessible so does it really matter that they are there during heavy snow years?

The same goes for the apple trees here, people often tell me that 2,000 plus released apple trees is a huge amount but is it really? That is only 3 plus trees per acre. The apple trees of course have quite a few pluses not the least of which is browse and cover for the very heavy snow periods. The apple trees actually hold a lot of snow on their tops so they also offer thermal cover. So in this area I would say that more than 3 plus apples an acre are necessary to the deer surviving the winter as they provide winter browse at that all important seven ft to ten ft. height here and winter thermal cover during heavy snows. Most browse of course feeds deer lower to the ground but that browse becomes inaccessible on a five ft. snow pack.

So yeah, the biologist surmised ratios are a beginning guideline for us to consider but our location in the country, the weather our property is exposed to, the local deer population, other plant growth on the property, our property goals and no doubt other factors can change those recommended as optimum ratios significantly.

And then of course there is the wild card being known and unknown diseases that can quickly wipe out an entire tree species which of course brings us back to diversity in plantings being our best options.

 

[SURGICAL GRADE]

Typically foresters who manage for wildlife, particularly WT, recommend 2 or 3 to 1 red oak to white oak. Couple reasons, reds tend to drop at least some acorns yearly to some extent even tho they take 2 years to mature on the stem. Secondly, due to tannins in the red oak nut, and that they require cold stratification to germinate, unlike the whites, they can remain viable for food thru the fall and into spring.

this. I've actually really begun to favor several of the red variety over white for reasons he mentioned.

Water oak is the first that comes to mind. Good to great yearly production is as dependable as anything I've seen, and their draw a little later in the year, specifically when our whites either don't produce heavily or else when they have dropped and been eaten or lose attractiveness (2 week span +/-), they are an incredible draw in great areas to hunt for over a month. Also, that tends to occur when weather conditions are finally giving us some colder spells which have the deer on their feet so timing is excellent.

Unfortunately, many of our reds really suffered through the drought last year, and I've lost quite a few of them this year on several properties. Southern reds, Northern pins, and Shumards are three of the hardest hit.

Some are really fighting to survive and may very well make it, although they'll inevitably have some dieback on their larger limbs which will shorten their lifespan at best and will make them all the more susceptible to diease/ pest for a while. Many others tried to leaf out this spring only to eventually succumb to their injuries and are exhibiting big-time bark slippage. They are terminal and will break/ fall sooner or later, and it'll continue to be a very sad ordeal to watch the once-large, sprawling old monarchs fall and crumble.