Sprayed Gly Around Tree Tubes, Wet Spring, Mortality. Now What?

[almanac12]

Planted trees the week of 4/10 in a wetter area. All trees were covered with 5' Tubex Combitubes that were pushed about 1" in the ground (it was soft). We had an unusually cool and rainy spring, and there was standing water in some spots. I'm having pretty poor success with initial survial (~25% not looking good), and I'm trying to determine if it was the rain or the gly.

I ended up spraying around the base on 4/26 because that's when I had time, and weeds (reed canary grass) were starting to come up. It was cool, about 5 pm, the sun was low enough such that the area was shaded, and the trees hadn't broken bud yet. It took about 3 weeks to see weed die back around the tubes. I'm embarrassed to say that I may have used too hot of a concentration. I used 5 oz/gal of Roundup Custom.... Reading up on it, this seems to be twice as much as I should have. I thought I would be ok because I had read that any residual gly is bound in the soil, the weather was cool, gly is a foliar spray, and the trees weren't breaking bud yet. My hunch is that some gly was taken up through the roots. The funny thing is in some of the tubes I'm finding 2 - 3' tall jewelweed in the same tubes as some dead trees.

What do all of you think? Have any of you had this happen?

I'm trying to decide if/when to replant, or if I should just pull the tubes off the dead trees and cut my losses.

 

[cutman]

I don't think glyphosate is the culprit. Too much rain plus cool temps could definitely hurt a seedling. What kind of trees are they?

 

[Brushpile]

What variety of trees did you plant? If you planted trees that are anaerobic intolerant than your seedlings likely drown. I always check the USDA plant guide before planting to learn the characteristics and growing conditions of each variety I plant. I just Googled White Oak USDA. Notice the anaerobic tolerance of White Oak is none!
https://plants.usda.gov/java/charProfile?symbol=QUAL

I am envisioning a stream with a Reed Canary Grass in the flood plain, and there are no trees for a reason. If that is the situation, plant anaerobic tolerant trees like River Birch, Cottonwood, and maybe Bur Oak, but the soil is another factor. In my river bottom Chinese Chestnut dies a slow death while Swamp White Oak flourishes.

If your seedlings were tubed with an inch in the ground, than glyphosate had zero effect on your seedlings. Gly kills green and does not harm roots in the soil. I got that info direct from a Monsanto Engineer, and I have sprayed around 1000's of seedlings. Without a tube you can spray up to the stem, so long as gly doesn't get on the green bark of a young tree. Weed mats are almost a must when planting in tall grass, or the grass will shade out the seedling. Black Plastic would work well in anaerobic conditions.

 

[Fish]

I agree with others. Gly doesnt sound like the culprit. Definitely no root uptake with gly. Likely they drowned. What species?

 

[almanac12]

Good question. This is a larger site that was under contract with the NRCS.

In the lower spots, I planted red maple. It's doing well in another site on my property in wetter spots.

In the moderately wet spots I planted hackberry, mostly for diversity. Bur oak and yellow birch were next roughly in order of decreasing soil moisture. Black maple (sugar maple variety/subspecies for clay soils) went in the highest and driest spots.

In terms of sight conditions, drain tiles and ditches were installed in the '50s. The trees that grow there are a result of the recent drainage. I believe the reed canary grass was planted by a farmer. I have been working to eliminate it, and noticed the site was furrowed in rows. The site is poorly drained though, and we did have an exceptionally wet Spring. I walked it yesterday, and it was mostly dried out. We've had dry sun for the last two weeks.

 

[almanac12]

I should also mention that box elder is seeding into the site like crazy.

 

[Fish]

Geeez. Those sound like the right species.......

 

[Brushpile]

In an area like that I would spray the grass and see what that nature does. Elderberry should do well once grass is eliminated. Hybrid Poplar should grow, I used Hybrid Poplar to shade out grass.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I know everyone says gly doesn't bother roots. But I don't use it anymore because of trees mysteriously dying just like OP. I once killed one of my best mature healthy grapevines, was nowhere close to green leaves. If any gly gets in the system of a living plant by whatever obscure means it's a goner.

 

[Brushpile]

Rather than plant and then spray, I spray and then plant the same day or two. Once the spray has dried, you can plant only hours later.
.

 

[dogghr]

As said, doubt it was gly spray unless you somehow got an overspray on about to leaf buds. Its been a wet spring, and a few of my bottom field trees plantings that are 4 yo are showing stress from living in a swamp. I knew I was pushing the envelope on those plantings, and am now paying the price. I agree with Brush, spray that wet area and let grow what nature knows it needs. I have never sprayed my creek bottom and it has transformed into a variety of trees and "weeds" forming a thicket. Produces some of the most amazing wildflower blooms on my property thru out the year.

Mennonite, while I suppose anything could happen, it is not possible for roots to take up gly to cause death. Not its modem of affect. Their are however some studies that show gly can affect the mitigation of water/moisture in the soil in the short term. But obviously the OP is not having a water problem.

 

[dogdoc]

This year is the 4th spring I have sprayed around the bases of my tubes. That is why they are not vented on the bottom 18". I have never lost a tree from spraying around the tube.

 

[almanac12]

What variety of trees did you plant? If you planted trees that are anaerobic intolerant than your seedlings likely drown. I always check the USDA plant guide before planting to learn the characteristics and growing conditions of each variety I plant. I just Googled White Oak USDA. Notice the anaerobic tolerance of White Oak is none!
https://plants.usda.gov/java/charProfile?symbol=QUAL

I am envisioning a stream with a Reed Canary Grass in the flood plain, and there are no trees for a reason. If that is the situation, plant anaerobic tolerant trees like River Birch, Cottonwood, and maybe Bur Oak, but the soil is another factor. In my river bottom Chinese Chestnut dies a slow death while Swamp White Oak flourishes.

If your seedlings were tubed with an inch in the ground, than glyphosate had zero effect on your seedlings. Gly kills green and does not harm roots in the soil. I got that info direct from a Monsanto Engineer, and I have sprayed around 1000's of seedlings. Without a tube you can spray up to the stem, so long as gly doesn't get on the green bark of a young tree. Weed mats are almost a must when planting in tall grass, or the grass will shade out the seedling. Black Plastic would work well in anaerobic conditions.

Thanks for the idea. I searched and 4 out of 5 species came up as Medium anaerobic tolerance. The bur oak came up as none, but there are bur oak growing on an adjacent property in areas with similar drainage. And, the bur oak have been doing better than the red maple and the yellow birch.

Thank you for the advice on alternatives to bare root trees. It's hard work. In terms of what nature will put there, it will probably be box elder, buckthorn, and garlic mustard. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I was originally awarded the NRCS contract for heavy brush control (buckthorn) and noxious weed removal (garlic mustard). I actually don't mind looking at the box elder, but it will form a monoculture without me putting something else there. The other (formerly) desirable species that seed in are green ash and elm. The green ash on the property are exhibiting crown death from EAB. The elm typically grow to 25' tall before succumbing to DED. It's just a tough piece of property in terms of invasives, but it's adjacent to my house. I've been hunting it since I was 8.

You mentioned elderberry. Did you mean this? https://plants.usda.gov/java/charProfile?symbol=SANIC4

I had also considered mulberry. I just wasn't able to source it locally.

 

[dogdoc]

If you can find some local mullberry trees them take some cuttings and start your own. They are so easy to grow from cuttings.

 

[Brushpile]

Where are you located? What part of what state? I will help, but I have to know your location.

 

[THE LLC]

Not the glyphosate.

 

[Fish]

Can you plant pin oaks? I love them in heavy wet clay. Better than a boxelder . I have an all hate and no love relationship with boxelder. Ok, maybe ive hinged a few and gotten thick regrowth, but thats as far as i can tolerate them.

Sandbar willow?

 

[almanac12]

Can you plant pin oaks? I love them in heavy wet clay. Better than a boxelder . I have an all hate and no love relationship with boxelder. Ok, maybe ive hinged a few and gotten thick regrowth, but thats as far as i can tolerate them.

Sandbar willow?

Thanks for the suggestion. I believe the pH is marginal for pin oak. Soil pH is 6.8 - 7.0.

 

[almanac12]

Where are you located? What part of what state? I will help, but I have to know your location.

About 45 minutes NW of Milwaukee. There are a lot of deer on and around my property. One year I hunted 3-1/2 days and saw 45 deer. My stand does not sit over a food plot. That was just deer moving through the woods. The area is hunted heavily, but we're near the fringe of the suburbs, so deer keep moving in. The deer population significantly impacts natural regen and has increased over the last 20 years.

My property is zone 5a. The soil is 6" - 18" thick layer of mucky peat over 12" of clay, with muck loam over clay in a few spots. pH is nearly neutral, and the soil is calciferous. It's largely a bottomland site. Green ash, black ash, american elm, black cherry, black willow, cottonwood, quaking aspen, and box elder are the major species that were on site when I purchased it 7 years ago. I've got a handful of bur oak, shagbark hickory, black walnut, and basswood in some of the higher spots. The quaking aspen is too thin to clearcut for regen / habitat.

2 years ago I planted a lot of swamp white oak, bur oak, tamarack, red maple, silver maple (I was required to plant this one), and northern white cedar through a contract with the NRCS. Most were purchased through the WI DNR. The white cedar all died within a month. Not sure if it was too sunny or the soil. The rest are doing well as long as they have a shelter over them.

Thanks!

 

[Chainsaw]

I spray roundup as close as I dare next to daylilies and usually get away with it. Sometimes though the slightest wind drift moves the roundup through the air further and higher than it was sprayed at. It would be unlikely though that every tree could get hit high without you noticing it. I have sprayed it next to young apple tree trunks and have gotten too close but no problems.

Red osier dogwood grows excellent here in our wet spots and is one of our main browse plants despite heavy browsing.. I know what you mean about the buckthorn; it would be a real bummer to get it back after killing most of it off. Also digging a couple of ditches and tiling may be an option to help drain the apple tree planting areas if the terrain is conducive to it.