Regenerative Plotting

The trick is maintaining populations of plants that deer eat. I have natural systems that are doing great and have been untouched for decades... comprised of mostly fescue. Some timely spraying or a disc can reboot the system to diverse forbs with high protein, palatablity, and long term seed drops. Sooo, how does one figure out the plants to seed that beats, or out competes nature?
I would be curious what plant testing would show on your place. Maybe send a batch of native plants and a batch of plot plants in for protein and brix levels. Soil testing is great and all, but doesn't this all boil down to what's going into their stomachs?

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I think the durability of your work is going to depend on how quickly you can get your version of a balanced C:N ratio going, and do it with plants that are selected for your region, site, and deer. If this can happen before the boomerang of catastrophe plants (i.e. thistle) sets in, you'd probably get some years out of it, if not keep it going forever.

So if you're operating with your risk more geared towards drought than flood, build a blend geared towards drought tolerant legumes, broadleaves, and grasses (cereals). The more perennials, the better.

What I wonder is, if you can effectively snuff out fescue, and keep it snuffed out so long as you keep your grass niche filled and filled well with rye, wheat, sorghum, etc. I could see that stuff come roaring back if there was a gap in the program. I've got traces of sedge showing back up in my plot and it's because I let my C:N get way too low last year. Gonna try to fix that with a hot and early dose of broadcasted barley soon as my puddles are gone in spring.

Funny you mention checking brix and protein levels. I have been talking with my wetland plants guy about that very thing. Next year, we're going to try to send in jewelweed for analysis. It's totally wild, and it's starting to show up on my place as I bring the canopy down. Deer seem to love it.
 
Are soil microbes that are adapted to the natural plants even capable of working with and mining with our new plants?

You bet. What you've got growing there now, is what is "best" fit for growing there right now and under current conditions, but it isn't the only thing that has grown there and can grow there (think in centuries). It likely keeps it's advantage due to allelopathic interference of would-be invaders. Look at the bright side, if you fail, it will revert to what it was, so you're out nothing. The transition back to pre-cat condition may be a bit rocky with rehab plants filling in, but it should go back to what it was after a number of years.

Your soil microbes will change with your plants, just like your bugs, birds, and grazers will change. If you put the host plants there, you won't be able to keep new biology from moving in around it. Put up a casino, and gamblers will show up.
 
You bet. What you've got growing there now, is what is "best" fit for growing there right now and under current conditions, but it isn't the only thing that has grown there and can grow there (think in centuries). It likely keeps it's advantage due to allelopathic interference of would-be invaders. Look at the bright side, if you fail, it will revert to what it was, so you're out nothing. The transition back to pre-cat condition may be a bit rocky with rehab plants filling in, but it should go back to what it was after a number of years.

Your soil microbes will change with your plants, just like your bugs, birds, and grazers will change. If you put the host plants there, you won't be able to keep new biology from moving in around it. Put up a casino, and gamblers will show up.
Ever google "cow saliva and soil microbes"?

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I have several three year old durana clover plots. Fortunately, grass has not yet been a problem. I bush hog twice a year and plant wheat in them in the fall using a woods seeder to scarify some seed drop rows - but it probably only disturbs 25% of the ground. I would suspect that timely top sowing wheat would produce a decent stand. I dont fertilize. About as least labor intensive and least expensive as I can get
 
The way I see it, the relationship between a plant and its microbes is the same as an animal and its cells.

Being attacked? Microbes will defend the plant exactly like a human’s white blood cells defend a human.

Our stomach bacteria is in direct communication with our brain, and they are completely capable of producing hormones and sending them throughout our body. Likewise, microbes produce plant hormones in response to environmental cues.

Basically what I’m getting at is that microbes are the brains of a plant. A plant growing without any symbiotic relationships is like a zombie plant.

Creating a good environment in the soil for the rhizosphere is key, folks. There’s more than just your plants going to work in there


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Mark - you should check out Paul Staments theory of the fungi networks actively controlling above ground life. There’s some interesting research on the intelligence of fungal networks. There’s a lot going on there that we’re just beginning to understand.

https://ronbarak.tumblr.com/post/9087600886/what-do-mushrooms-think-of


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121141051.htm

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238823756_Intelligence_Maze-Solving_by_an_Amoeboid_Organism




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I have several three year old durana clover plots. Fortunately, grass has not yet been a problem. I bush hog twice a year and plant wheat in them in the fall using a woods seeder to scarify some seed drop rows - but it probably only disturbs 25% of the ground. I would suspect that timely top sowing wheat would produce a decent stand. I dont fertilize. About as least labor intensive and least expensive as I can get
I wish every foodplotting hunter would read your post, planting a small grain into existing longterm clover plots is such a critical part of maintaining the C:N balance that determines what weeds grow, what sprays you need, what fertilizer is needed etc. This balance of C:N is very important, and can save foodplotters lot of money on fertilizer and herbicides.

Note on the chart below that clover hay (which already fixed excess nitrogen in the soil when it was growing) and grass clippings (which is what the average guy gets when he mows his plot to control weeds) are both too high in nitrogen, which is going to boost grass and fescue growth, which then chokes out forbs and legumes. The simple and easy magic answer to escape this cycle of death for clover food plots is to plant a small grain like barley, wheat, rye, or oats into the clover plot. The small grain takes up the N fixed by the legumes and reduces the free N in the soil, the legume rhizobia respond to the low soil N levels and fix more N, resulting in higher overall N fixation and hence greater biomass, and raises the C:N ratio, prolonging the release of N to subsequent crops, putting the clover plot into a long term cycle of life. In addition the small grain straw residue provides soil cover, protecting the soil from the elements such as heat, freezing, erosion and drought.

I'm still experimenting with some different methods of growing balanced long term clover plots and will continue to share results, I know Mark likes barley, but my two favorite plantings to balance C:N in clover for zone 6B are;

Early spring oats no-tilled, scarified, throw-n-mow, or disced into (existing or new) clover just before the clover starts to green up, I let these oats go into grain and expire on their own in midsummer, this makes early spring deer forage and turkeys and deer eat the grain into late summer.

Late summer rye, mow the clover short after the summer heat is over, and no-till or disc the seed into the soil, the seed needs soil contact and some light to grow. This rye will feed deer all fall and winter as the clover freezes, I let the rye expire on it's own, it makes for some great fawning cover in late spring.

Here’s a list of C:N ratios of crop residues and other organic materials. These can aid plotters in approaching the optimum 24:1 C:N ratio to maintain soil balance.
  • Softwood bark: 496:1
  • Sawdust: 325:1
  • Rye Straw 82:1
  • Wheat Straw: 80:1
  • Pine needles: 80:1
  • Oat Straw: 70:1
  • Leaves: 60:1
  • Corn Stalks: 57:1
  • Rye Cover Crop (Flowering) 37:1
  • Pea Straw: 29:1
  • Rye Cover Crop (Vegetative) 26:1
  • Mature Alfalfa Hay 25:1
  • Ideal Microbial Diet: 24:1
  • Clover: 23:1
  • Fresh grass clippings: 20:1
  • Rotted Barnyard Manure: 20:1
  • Legume Hay 17:1
  • Beef Manure 17:1
  • Sheep manure: 15:1
  • Young Alfalfa Hay: 13:1
  • Hairy Vetch Cover Crop: 11:1
  • Aged chicken manure: 7:1
 
What do you plant in your drought prone plot?
There are only 4 things I have found to work in our sandiest plots; buckwheat in the summer, Winter rye in the fall, alsike clover and chicory, in-between. The chicory is what suffers first, if we don't have regular rains. Many years, only the buckwheat or rye really grows well.

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There are only 4 things I have found to work in our sandiest plots; buckwheat in the summer, Winter rye in the fall, alsike clover and chicory, in-between. The chicory is what suffers first, if we don't have regular rains. Many years, only the buckwheat or rye really grows well.

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do you work it up at all?
 
do you work it up at all?

We have a small plot that has a mix of red clay and sand in the top 4-6” and it is straight sand under that. We think it was used by the timber company for their office or a landing waiting for trucks to load. We used to disc it up, but found out that we kept pulling more sand up and now we just throw-mow-roll. It is slowly changing the soils composition. We are also not having to do as much work with it to have complete ground coverage. It still lacks on the shady side, but is improving every year.


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I wish every foodplotting hunter would read your post, planting a small grain into existing longterm clover plots is such a critical part of maintaining the C:N balance that determines what weeds grow, what sprays you need, what fertilizer is needed etc. This balance of C:N is very important, and can save foodplotters lot of money on fertilizer and herbicides.

Note on the chart below that clover hay (which already fixed excess nitrogen in the soil when it was growing) and grass clippings (which is what the average guy gets when he mows his plot to control weeds) are both too high in nitrogen, which is going to boost grass and fescue growth, which then chokes out forbs and legumes. The simple and easy magic answer to escape this cycle of death for clover food plots is to plant a small grain like barley, wheat, rye, or oats into the clover plot. The small grain takes up the N fixed by the legumes and reduces the free N in the soil, the legume rhizobia respond to the low soil N levels and fix more N, resulting in higher overall N fixation and hence greater biomass, and raises the C:N ratio, prolonging the release of N to subsequent crops, putting the clover plot into a long term cycle of life. In addition the small grain straw residue provides soil cover, protecting the soil from the elements such as heat, freezing, erosion and drought.

I'm still experimenting with some different methods of growing balanced long term clover plots and will continue to share results, I know Mark likes barley, but my two favorite plantings to balance C:N in clover for zone 6B are;

Early spring oats no-tilled, scarified, throw-n-mow, or disced into (existing or new) clover just before the clover starts to green up, I let these oats go into grain and expire on their own in midsummer, this makes early spring deer forage and turkeys and deer eat the grain into late summer.

Late summer rye, mow the clover short after the summer heat is over, and no-till or disc the seed into the soil, the seed needs soil contact and some light to grow. This rye will feed deer all fall and winter as the clover freezes, I let the rye expire on it's own, it makes for some great fawning cover in late spring.

Here’s a list of C:N ratios of crop residues and other organic materials. These can aid plotters in approaching the optimum 24:1 C:N ratio to maintain soil balance.
  • Softwood bark: 496:1
  • Sawdust: 325:1
  • Rye Straw 82:1
  • Wheat Straw: 80:1
  • Pine needles: 80:1
  • Oat Straw: 70:1
  • Leaves: 60:1
  • Corn Stalks: 57:1
  • Rye Cover Crop (Flowering) 37:1
  • Pea Straw: 29:1
  • Rye Cover Crop (Vegetative) 26:1
  • Mature Alfalfa Hay 25:1
  • Ideal Microbial Diet: 24:1
  • Clover: 23:1
  • Fresh grass clippings: 20:1
  • Rotted Barnyard Manure: 20:1
  • Legume Hay 17:1
  • Beef Manure 17:1
  • Sheep manure: 15:1
  • Young Alfalfa Hay: 13:1
  • Hairy Vetch Cover Crop: 11:1
  • Aged chicken manure: 7:1
I'm starting to to realize I'm the last person to the party on the concept of interseeding cereals into clover. I had an interesting video pop up in my youtube feed the other night about pasture cropping. Interestingly enough, our clover approach seems a bit off topic compared to what these guys are doing, but the objectives are very similar; get more and leave it in better shape.

https://permaculturenews.org/2012/0...ted-approach-to-grain-and-pasture-production/

pc.PNG
 
Winter rolls on up here...

Was doing some youtubing today, and came across a concept I hadn't heard yet: Subordinate plants

I haven't been able to find any shareable chatter on it, but from the little bit I heard, they are the smaller and less prevalent plants that somehow find a space in a blend of larger dominant plants. I hadn't intentionally done anything with subordinate plants. I was simply trying to drive my species count sky high. Well, I think I got a bunch of them. Some planned, most by chance.

One I've grown to like for color and diversity is flax. I got it by chance in a blend I bought. Don't know a whole lot about it, but it made a spot in my super plot this year. You can hardly see it in a stand back photo, but it's there.
flax.jpg

Here's a stand back pic of it.
flax blend.jpg

I blew up the picture and tried to circle as many as I could see.
flax blend group.jpg

I had a focus on pushing flowers. I got a bunch of natives to come up, but again, by chance. I can't say I did anything to bring the x to the spot.

Fleabane
fleabane.jpg

Potentilla
potentilla.jpg

Does any of this matter? Quacks are starting to come to agreement that full season blends north of 8 species can exponentially grow organic matter faster than even the highest carbon no-till mono plot.

We'll see. I'm not the expert on any of this. I'm just sharing my journey.
 
Was doing some youtubing today, and came across a concept I hadn't heard yet: Subordinate plants

Does any of this matter? Quacks are starting to come to agreement that full season blends north of 8 species can exponentially grow organic matter faster than even the highest carbon no-till mono plot.
I’ve seen some videos on 8 or more blends, just never heard anyone call them “Subordinate plants”. I’ll see what I can find also. I am working on a mix and it might be worth it to add some of these to the mix, maybe even flax.



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do you work it up at all?
When planting on the sandiest soils, we do little or no tillage. We top-dress lime and fertilizer, then broadcast seed and cultipack. At the very most, we will scratch the surface with a set of discs.

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When planting on the sandiest soils, we do little or no tillage. We top-dress lime and fertilizer, then broadcast seed and cultipack. At the very most, we will scratch the surface with a set of discs.

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How mature do you let your rye get in the spring? Or do you let it finish all the way out?
 
I'm starting to to realize I'm the last person to the party on the concept of interseeding cereals into clover. I had an interesting video pop up in my youtube feed the other night about pasture cropping. Interestingly enough, our clover approach seems a bit off topic compared to what these guys are doing, but the objectives are very similar; get more and leave it in better shape.

https://permaculturenews.org/2012/0...ted-approach-to-grain-and-pasture-production/

View attachment 17876
This article about Aussies interseeding oats into their grazing pastures is an interesting read, i believe this is going to be a key part of the future of agriculture, the big reason being: here you have double cropping without tillage or herbicide use.
 
This article was sent to me by a guy. Fantastic read on the downstream effects after a glyphosate application. This is the best 60 second read I've ever seen pulling this all together in an understandable way.

https://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/features/building-biology/
Lol, sent to me "by a guy". You can reference me and our discussions anytime you want (not buck pics though, if they are in messages they aren't for the public). I just wasn't in the mood to post.

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