Regenerative Plotting

[KSQ2]

I have an 8' wide 3pt JD brush hog on a 75hp tractor that I run at lower rpms and it really mows nice in any conditions. Deer nibbling rye down into the dirt in the winter is normal for me and it never hurts the stand in the spring.
Key to broadcasting: seed twice the rates that you think. Up to 300 lb per acre.

MM, our old Case is a 62 horse pto, I use a 5’ brushhog and it throws most of the cut grass to the right side of the mower. Can I get a more even dispersal by lowering rpm? Will that hurt the pto drive at all?

 

[Mennoniteman]

MM, our old Case is a 62 horse pto, I use a 5’ brushhog and it throws most of the cut grass to the right side of the mower. Can I get a more even dispersal by lowering rpm? Will that hurt the pto drive at all?

Lowering the rpm is less wear on the pto and gearbox, but could be more wear on the tractor motor if the lower rpm seems to be lugging the motor more. You can tell if the motor is lugging if its unresponsive, runs hot, or blowing smoke. You should be fine because your 62 HP is high for a 5' mower.
I saw a real deal at an auction on my 8' mower, however, it had a 1000 rpm pto and my tractor only has 540, but I knew from experience that as far as the clippings being on 1 side in a windrow, the mower would mow nicer at a lower speed, so I bought it and a pto adapter for the different splines. I keep the blades sharp by lifting it up, propping a wood block for safety and touching them up with an angle grinder.

 

[KSQ2]

Lowering the rpm is less wear on the pto and gearbox, but could be more wear on the tractor motor if the lower rpm seems to be lugging the motor more. You can tell if the motor is lugging if its unresponsive, runs hot, or blowing smoke. You should be fine because your 62 HP is high for a 5' mower.
I saw a real deal at an auction on my 8' mower, however, it had a 1000 rpm pto and my tractor only has 540, but I knew from experience that as far as the clippings being on 1 side in a windrow, the mower would mow nicer at a lower speed, so I bought it and a pto adapter for the different splines. I keep the blades sharp by lifting it up, propping a wood block for safety and touching them up with an angle grinder.

Yeah our mower has a real easy life, I doubt it mows more than 10 acres total a year.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I have one PP plot that is on higher ground. This was a new blend last year. This is my first blend that has alfalfa in it.

I wish I knew what was causing this. I have an idea if there was some rain and a mowing, this wouldn’t be an issue.

I’m showing some drought stress in this one. The rest are good, but this one has reached a limit.

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[buckhunter10]

Understanding fungi systems is crucial if we want to have a grasp on how the systems function from start to finish. Also recognize, what human interventions may impact these processes regardless of solely a positive or negative response.

Here is a very nicely done, and easy to comprehend article on saprophytic and mycorrhizal fungi.

https://www.slu.se/en/ew-news/2016/...rrhizal-fungi-compete-for-the-same-substrate/

 

[Mennoniteman]

I have one PP plot that is on higher ground. This was a new blend last year. This is my first blend that has alfalfa in it.

I wish I knew what was causing this. I have an idea if there was some rain and a mowing, this wouldn’t be an issue.

I’m showing some drought stress in this one. The rest are good, but this one has reached a limit.

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It looks like you have leafhoppers or aphids. I'm guessing leafhoppers, although they are easier to spot than aphids. This is one of the reasons why clover is more popular than alfalfa for food plots. Alfalfa needs way more maintenance.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Some rain finally fell Friday night. Between two systems, we got 1.75” and by Sunday afternoon, the lawn still looked cooked. I gambled and spread rye and wheat to see if I could get them germinated.

Some of the initial stuff I planted a few weeks ago has germinated.

Buckwheat

Collards and jap millet

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[KSQ2]

I got some seed ordered from Welters this morning. I needed some brassicas from them for next month, so I usually go ahead and order fall plot seed too. I was able to add hairy vetch to the order for the first time. I also upped my order of chicory this year. My order was made up of:
Dwarf Essex rape
Groundhog forage radish
Alice white clover
Forb feast chicory
Hairy vetch

I can get everything else locally.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I got some seed ordered from Welters this morning. I needed some brassicas from them for next month, so I usually go ahead and order fall plot seed too. I was able to add hairy vetch to the order for the first time. I also upped my order of chicory this year. My order was made up of:
Dwarf Essex rape
Groundhog forage radish
Alice white clover
Forb feast chicory
Hairy vetch

I can get everything else locally.

Now you're talkin!

 

[TX-Aggie]

Put in my seed order on Saturday. We are able to get our winter grains and peas minus barely from a local co-op, the rest from Green Cover Seed. I needed to order early so I could get everything to my father in time. For the first time in 4 years, I am unable to be at the farm for food plotting. I'm getting all the seed pulled together that I can and gave detailed guidance for my father and uncle to complete the work.

-Main plots will have : Oats/Wheat/Rye/Turnips/Radish/Crimson Clover/Berseem Clover/Balansa Clover/Winter Peas
-2 of the main plots will have a test mix of above added with Barley, Forage Collards, and Hairy Vetch mixed in
-We are converting a few of our smaller plots into Clover/Chicory/Alfalfa plots : Clover Mix of Alfalfa, Crimson, Med Red, Berseem, Arrowleaf, Durana/Patriot (leftover from 2021 frost seeding earlier this year), and Chicory. We will seed wheat and oats in with these mixes.
-Current Clover/Chicory/Alfalfa plots : will overseed with wheat and oats, and mow the plot down (first time overseeding into a good clover plot)
-My uncle has requested a couple of turnip patches near his 2 stands after our goofing off turnip patch over his septic lines 2 years ago. Deer would visit his yard every day after the first heavy frost going after the turnips.

2 of our main plots will be newly cleared, and will need to do some dirt work to clean up after the dozer. The remainder will be throw n mow style.

Once seeded, we will be watering the main plots with a 255 gal tote mixed with Horticultural Molasses, Compost Tea, and Root Stimulate foliars - specifically the 2 new plots, but if we have any mix leftover, we will of course run over other plots as well. The newer plots will also get a treatment of lime and chicken litter to help kick start them. Each new clover plot will also get a shot of gypsum after the response we saw from the 2020 clover plots to gypsum.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Each new clover plot will also get a shot of gypsum after the response we saw from the 2020 clover plots to gypsum.

Can you remind us of how much you spread/acre and how the response was?

 

[TX-Aggie]

We didn't do anything scientific, and honestly I don't know how much you are supposed to spread per the acre. We just hit it with 1-40 lb sack on each of our quarter acre clover plots (3 plots in total). In prior years, we had planted, fertilized, and limed the plots. The grains and brassicas did well each of those years, but the clover growth was spotty. We had exclusion cages in the plots, and they matched what we saw in the plot, so we knew it wasn't the deer eating all the clover. The picture below is the clover plot from about a month ago. Our previous years plots - picture this plot, but without the "bed" of clover" underneath. Those years, I would walk through the plot and get excited when I would actually find clover.

Then, I remembered someone on this forum mentioning gypsum for clover plots. So last year, we did not add fertilizer and lime, and instead hit with gypsum and a 40 lb sack of composted cow manure. The clover did extremely well, and kept up with the browse pressure to almost match the exclusion cage. Our game cameras showed deer in the plot multiple times a day/night, so we know they were using it. Last month, my dad and uncle said there were deer beds inside the plot since we let the cereals bolt and go to seed. However, even in the spots where the beds were, the clover was keeping up.

Only real difference between the years was A) I did the gypsum/compost cow manure option above, and B) I did include durana/patriot clover in the mix instead of run of the mill ladino clover. We did see each of the clovers planted represented during this past turkey season, so it wasn't necessarily the durana/patriot alone making the difference.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I aim for 250 lbs/ac and then adjust from there for soil composition. I made a lot of clay this year, so I went a little higher, and also switched to calcitic pell lime.

 

[buckhunter10]

@TX-Aggie You are most likely seeing a fantastic response from the clover when adding gypsum due to the CA,MG, K base saturation becoming more balanced. Niel Kinsey and Wiliam Albrecht speak/spoke about this topic. We don't need to lime/gypsum to just balance the PH but also the ratios. More importantly the latter. MG will actually raise PH higher than CA will, relative the PPM in the soil - so when MG gets to high we can have negative impacts on our plant's nutrient absorption.

CA and MG are inversely correlated, so as one goes up the other goes down. We should strive for around 70% CA base saturation on the soil colloid and around 10-20%. MG is very important in adding photosynthesis but we need CA to aid in the cell wall structure of the plants, and I believe there is some research that shows it makes nitrogen (and another nutrient uptake more efficient in the plant as well).

Here is a great website for calculating your base saturation %
https://norganics.com/index-2/calculation-pages/base-saturation-calculation/
For more information on understanding the antagonistic vs. synergistic relationships - specific to plant nutrient uptake and balancing the soil colloid holding potential -
Link: https://www.canna.ca/interactions_between_nutrients

Hope this helps

AT

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

So I’ve been trying to find information (good and bad) about spotted knapweed and I can’t find much other than that it’s the devil.

I figured I’d come here to see what you think, or if you even have any on your place. I feel like there has to be some sort of ecological bright side of a spotted knapweed infestation.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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[MarkDarvin]

So I’ve been trying to find information (good and bad) about spotted knapweed and I can’t find much other than that it’s the devil.

I figured I’d come here to see what you think, or if you even have any on your place. I feel like there has to be some sort of ecological bright side of a spotted knapweed infestation.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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Did something happen to the site that it showed up, like flood, drought, tillage, spraying, grazing? Is it getting outside a disturbed area, or just where an opening has been made?

 

[RGrizzzz]

@TX-Aggie You are most likely seeing a fantastic response from the clover when adding gypsum due to the CA,MG, K base saturation becoming more balanced. Niel Kinsey and Wiliam Albrecht speak/spoke about this topic. We don't need to lime/gypsum to just balance the PH but also the ratios. More importantly the latter. MG will actually raise PH higher than CA will, relative the PPM in the soil - so when MG gets to high we can have negative impacts on our plant's nutrient absorption.

CA and MG are inversely correlated, so as one goes up the other goes down. We should strive for around 70% CA base saturation on the soil colloid and around 10-20%. MG is very important in adding photosynthesis but we need CA to aid in the cell wall structure of the plants, and I believe there is some research that shows it makes nitrogen (and another nutrient uptake more efficient in the plant as well).

Here is a great website for calculating your base saturation %
https://norganics.com/index-2/calculation-pages/base-saturation-calculation/
For more information on understanding the antagonistic vs. synergistic relationships - specific to plant nutrient uptake and balancing the soil colloid holding potential -
Link: https://www.canna.ca/interactions_between_nutrients

Hope this helps

AT

I"m reviewing some soil tests for early 2020, before we limed per the test info, and I'm looking at the %saturation of the CEC. Some of the breakdowns for K/Mg/Ca look like the following below. Some of the numbers add up close to 100%, but many don't. What else is making up the saturation, if I'm not adding up to 100 or close to it?

K/Mg/Ca/pH
Dump - 0.8/2.4/20.8/5.2
House - 1.6/30.9/67.5/6.8
Mroad - 1.4/11.1/51.0/6.1

 

[buckhunter10]

I"m reviewing some soil tests for early 2020, before we limed per the test info, and I'm looking at the %saturation of the CEC. Some of the breakdowns for K/Mg/Ca look like the following below. Some of the numbers add up close to 100%, but many don't. What else is making up the saturation, if I'm not adding up to 100 or close to it?

K/Mg/Ca/pH
Dump - 0.8/2.4/20.8/5.2
House - 1.6/30.9/67.5/6.8
Mroad - 1.4/11.1/51.0/6.1

Other cations - see below

"Base saturation is the sum of base cations (Ca2+, Mg2+, K+, and Na+) held onto the soil exchange sites divided by the total CEC and expressed as a percentage."

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

Did something happen to the site that it showed up, like flood, drought, tillage, spraying, grazing? Is it getting outside a disturbed area, or just where an opening has been made?

On my place it’s not specific to one site, but it is prominent on my areas with poor/sandy soil (whether disturbed or not). It also loves spots there were tilled in the past, as expected.

It’s not out of hand but I’m looking for some guidance. Do you think it’s beneficial to soil health or should I start fighting it?


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[MarkDarvin]

On my place it’s not specific to one site, but it is prominent on my areas with poor/sandy soil (whether disturbed or not). It also loves spots there were tilled in the past, as expected.

It’s not out of hand but I’m looking for some guidance. Do you think it’s beneficial to soil health or should I start fighting it?


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I wouldn't let an invasive run free on my place. But, I'd also be careful not to create a second bigger problem trying to cure the first one. Check this out from Michigan State page 13:
https://d.lib.msu.edu/etd/2295/data...tion_of_associated_pollinator_communities.pdf
Spotted knapweed management
Concern about the spread of knapweeds and other invasive plants has led to the development of many different management strategies. These include prevention, cultural methods, conventional chemical control, and biological control. Because knapweeds are capable of quickly establishing large populations, the most effective method of control is to keep them from spreading in the first place. Preventative methods include keeping seeds from spreading to new locations, and the removal of colonizing individuals before they have a chance to spread. This approach necessitates the cooperation of many people and organizations working to stop new outbreaks.

Mowing can be an effective method of controlling spotted knapweed. It is important that the plants are cut while they are flowering, but before they have a chance to produce seed. If the plants are cut before the flowers open, there will be a second production of flowers later in the year (Story et al., 2010). Fire can kill adult plants, reduce the number of viable seeds in the seedbank and help native plants that are adapted to fire. Burning in mid to late-spring is the most effective. However, knapweed doesn’t carry fire well by itself, so seeding with grasses prior to burning can be helpful (MacDonald et al., 2007; Emery and Gross 2005). Burning in the summer can reduce knapweed densities, but it also has a detrimental effect on warm-season grasses (Emery and Gross, 2005). Late-spring burning can inhibit the growth of early-flowering native forbs (Rosberg, 2001), so caution must be used if providing resources for pollinators is a goal of restoration.