Recreating a Deer Woods

YES! Snow may be gone shortly. Ya--hoo!
Osceola, on pruning wild apples of course cutting away the dead branches which puts bugs and molds and maybe even a disease further from the tree is always a good thing. Let me premise this with I have zero training in pruning and repeat that mostly negative things have happened when I did prune mature wild apple trees. In some cases it was just plain bad pruning but in others it was not so bad or so we thought.

Once a tree is formed it evidently is pretty harsh on it to try to change it much. I wouldn't say never prune but would need an awful good reason to prune live parts off of a mature overgrown tree. Here are reasons I might be prompted to trim live parts off of a mature wild tree.
--If a tree looked to be shading itself out and hadn't produced many apples in two years or more and others around it did would be one reason with the goal being to let light in to fewer branches so they might produce fruit. If the tree was full but producing well which is the case with many here then I wouldn't even consider pruning it.
--If apple trees began blowing over from wind at an increased rate then I would consider thinning the remaining trees to reduce the wind to sail effect that a very full tree likely causes.
--If a tree grows 4 ft. tall and then the main leader runs parallel to the ground for twenty feet. I might prune it just after its turn at the four feet height or bend the leader to the ground and gently hinge if needed (above the four ft. height) and then cover the leader part that is on the ground every few ft. to maybe result in starting new trees.
--When two apple trees are growing too close to one another and they both are doing poorly, rather than prune them I have just picked the most dominant and cut the other to the ground. The deer keep the cut tree from getting in the face of the saved tree.

There are many good books on pruning and as I recall they say not to cut more than 30% of the tree per year, When it comes to mature wild apple trees I'd go with no more than 10% per year and again even then only if the tree showed a strong reason that pruning was required.

If anyone on the forum has pruned wild apple trees and had positive results, please show or tell us what your pruning goals were and what results you enjoyed.

And again on finding new trees yesterday sixty-five steps from my barn a "new" wild apple tree was discovered. It is covered in grape vines and has a six inch ash growing inches from it as well as buckthorn all around it.
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It is amazing that a wild apple tree with such a wide trunk as this one, maybe 14 inches wide, literally sixty-five steps from where we live has gone unnoticed all these years. It just shows that for those of us with properties where wild apple trees live likely have many around us that we have not yet discovered.
 
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You are right on them hiding. And thanks to you Chain, I found an apple in a thicket just off one of my food plots. I'm sure I've been near it many times. Will open it up from competion the next few weeks. Thanks
 
Having just read the book 'Botany of Desire" by Michael Poulan, I am even more resolved to focus entirely on releasing the great old wild apple trees on this property versus planting orchard bred trees. Utilizing the huge gene pools the great old trees will be selectively crossed to one another and the resultant seeds will be planted to create yet more unknown varieties with the characteristics that are serving the deer here so well. Thank you Shedder for mentioning the book. Although it was not a technical apple book it strengthened my knowledge, understanding and appreciation for the wild apple tree.

I am glad it worked out. I read it years ago so I reread the apple and marijuana chapters last night. I had forgotten most of the apple chapter except for the Kazak bit which was the most interesting to me. I was surprised at how much of the marijuana chapter I forgot which was ironic since marijuana's role in forgetfulness was a theme of the chapter

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https://www.amazon.com/Apples-Frank...id=1487518154&sr=1-1&keywords=APPLES+browning
https://www.amazon.com/Apples-Uncom...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VTDEW4RAB65H9QP874K2

https://www.amazon.com/Holistic-Orc...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MYR89PX9WA5EHJRP0QSC

These had good reviews so I am getting them from the library.
 
Watching deer after deer stop at a particular apple tree daily yet still holding apples as of today Feb. 17 (pictured on page three of this thread as it looked Jan. 7) has reinforced for me that apples that do not fall until February are among those that may have other characteristics that serve the deer well here, with this trees major strength being providing a deer preferred food during the late winter when food preferred or not is otherwise very scarce here. The tree is daily one of the very first stops after bedding by many different deer;Sometimes in their enthusiasm the younger deer will break away from the lead deer and sprint the last 100 yards to the tree. Here is what that same tree is still holding as of today(had a little snow on the lens).

Curious as to what flavor they possibly could have after hanging in the cold all winter I picked ten of the apples;they had lost some of their original weight with the average apple picked now weighing only two ounces. After squeezing the juice out of them and running the juice thru a coffee filter the taste test was ready. The juice from all ten apples filled only a small glass. A small baby sip at first was pure delight, to die for as some say! The rest of glass did not disappoint;it was a myriad of flavors I had never experienced; Yikes was it ever special!!! It left me wanting-NO, LONGING for more .

The fabulous taste of the winter-aged juice is not a deciding factor but we won't hold that against it either.

Very interesting and something I have wondered about.
 
You are right on them hiding. And thanks to you Chain, I found an apple in a thicket just off one of my food plots. I'm sure I've been near it many times. Will open it up from competion the next few weeks. Thanks
That's SUPER dogghr. I hope it turns out to be a dandy. You are welcome and Thanks for sharing that. I'm planning a couple of apple tree search and flag days myself for when the blossoms are out.
 
Thanks for your advice on pruning and releasing, Chainsaw and Chummer. I've already put it to good use.
That's wonderful Osceola and you are very welcome. Let us know how they respond to being released. Most take a couple of years here but a few have shot up and out their very first season after releasing.
 
Very interesting and something I have wondered about.
Picked another batch today so my wife can taste it. Note that these things could have bacteria in them that could make some people sick; They have been froze and thawed a lot of times this winter. My stomach doesn't normally react to foods that I've seen bother other people so if anyone else tries this just take it slow to be sure it is safe. The tree holding the apples is in full view of the sun room so I watch a lot of the activity there.

I also shook a lot of apples loose for the deer there today. The snow is melting openings seemingly everywhere so more browse became available to the deer today. Too bad that red pine hadn't stayed hidden in the snow another week;it probably would have made it thru winter unscathed.
 
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Just got caught up on the last 4 pages. Always enjoy your updates and love of your land. The number of wild apples is simply amazing.
Keep up the great work. Spring will be here soon.
Todd

Thanks for the kind words DogDoc. Luckily for me my wife also shares a love of this land as I do although not quite to the extreme that I do.
The number of apple trees here is amazing but more so is the idea that these are trees not bred for their apple taste,color or size but rather have been naturally selected to cross with others based on their hardiness, disease resistance, cold resistance,ability to compete with buckthorn as well as natural timber trees, and fruitfullness. As I was taking some pictures today of the bare apple trees it struck me as to how many different shapes and characteristics there are here and thus how many different gene pools and combinations there must be. The thought of hybridizing these beauties with helping the deer as the single goal is extremely exciting. It just adds yet another dimension to our fun.
 
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I will post some after pics when I find them. I have been pruning all the wild trees for a few years now and other than one they have all responded great.
 
These are the pics I could find. All these trees have been pruned for the last 4 years. Before that they were swallowed up by cherry,elm, and maple. Most of them were in pretty bad shape, on their way out. The ones in the field were very thick with lots of suckers.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Chummer, Would it be correct to say that you pruned with the objective to control the suckers that came after releasing the apple trees? The trees look good and don't show any hits from cutting anything big out of them. I really like the very first apple tree. I like it's height, shape and its heavy display of blossoms. The others are all good of course as each adds to the food pile. The more misshapen ones could have excellent genes but were just over shadowed by other trees. There is no way of knowing what they would be had they had the field edge advantage the first one had.

Still that first one which looks to be pushing 35 to 40 ft. is an excellent breeder candidate to me. Have you measured its height?

Your pic of the food plot with clover, chicory and apple trees looks exactly like one of my food plots minus the tree tubes.
 
That would be the beauty of that first one. It was all covered up! All I did to that one was keep the trunk clear from suckers. The rest is to tall to do anything with. It is all of 35' tall. It is my favorite tree. It is resistant to fire blight and has golf ball size apples that drop in October. That is the one you told me to get a support under. The only field tree was the second one. My pruning is any dead wood year one, any branches rubbing together year two. After that I take one or two branches to open up the middle in trees that need it. Other than that I do sucker control in mid summer. All but the second tree were in a heavy wooded area. I cut everything and pulled it all out with a backhoe. Luckily this is the best soil on the place and clover and chicory does great. I have some pics of after stumps were pulled and before it was planted.
 
You and I Chummer are on the same page then on not pruning too much. I'm not saying we are right for all properties but for here patience and caution in pruning wild apple trees has shown to work out best. Thank you for adding your pruning program to this thread.
 
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I am glad it worked out. I read it years ago so I reread the apple and marijuana chapters last night. I had forgotten most of the apple chapter except for the Kazak bit which was the most interesting to me. I was surprised at how much of the marijuana chapter I forgot which was ironic since marijuana's role in forgetfulness was a theme of the chapter

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61JEhyD1FAL._SX395_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/Apples-Frank...id=1487518154&sr=1-1&keywords=APPLES+browning
https://www.amazon.com/Apples-Uncom...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VTDEW4RAB65H9QP874K2

https://www.amazon.com/Holistic-Orc...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MYR89PX9WA5EHJRP0QSC

These had good reviews so I am getting them from the library.

Thanks Shedder for the references. I shall check with the local library here to see if some are available. On the botany of desire I have read the apple section twice, the tulip section once and surprisingly have not checked the marijuana chapter yet. (And yes I do forget a lot also)

With a sudden shift to more tolerable weather I have been releasing apple trees, dropping more poplar and cedar for the deer and observing apple trees throughout the property in an effort to identify a preferred bunch to use for hybridizing. There is still snow so travel throughout the property is taxing. Not that I won't have time to read but as likely where you are when the weather allows we get out there. It may not last long But right now conditions are quite hospitable for some in the woods time.
 
Osceola, While surveying apple trees yesterday I noticed this pair which is in need of pruning. The branches are so tight the two trees can't possibly have enough air among the branches when their leaves come out.

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This year I'll take the dead branches and that one branch marked with orange tape on the left tree; as you can see it starts out on the right side of the tree and then goes right , then turns left and goes back thru the tree. I'll see how the tree reacts and if OK I'll look to see if it requires anymore next year. It will only take a few minutes and they really need it. The tree to the right has a couple of candidates for removal. I'll pick the worst branch and cut that one this year and see how the tree responds. These two trees are in a great spot and worth the short minutes it will take to help them along a little at a time.
 
Forgotten Fruit, a fun read

Before there were factory orchards full of patent-protected Galas and Fujis, there was the Blake. The Queen's Pocket The Esopus Spitzenburg. John Bunker is on a mission to bring back the apples that made America great.

Every fall at Maine's Common Ground Country Fair, the Lollapalooza of sustainable agriculture, Jon Bunker sets out a display of eccentric apples. Last September, once again, they covered every possible size, shape, and color in the wide world of appleness. There was a gnarled little yellow thing called a Westfield Seek-No-Further; a purplish plum impostor called a Black Oxford; a massive, red-streaked Wolf River; and one of Thomas Jefferson's go-to fruits, the Esopus Spitzenburg. Bunker is known in Maine as 'The Apple Whisperer," or simply 'The Apple Guy," and, after laboring for years in semiobscurity, he has never been in more demand. Through the catalog of Fedco Trees, a mail-order company he founded in Maine 30 years ago, Bunker has sown the seeds of a grassroots apple revolution.

see pdf for more
 

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I've picked out seven of The apple trees that will be used for crossing to create apple seeds for planting on the property. As I examined trees this week I'd have to say that there is no perfect tree. They all show some damage from weather, or fungus or mold or disease or something. Still each of these seven trees is a standout from the deer' perspective and are a testament to the old adage that you can't judge a book by its cover. Some of these seven trees are downright ugly but all are standouts among the large amount of trees on this property.
This first tree we named DR1 is off a turn in the driveway. Before and the 1st half of hunting season the deer visit this tree every morning just before sunrise. It produces a lot of apples and is pretty consistent.

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The next tree pictured here DL1is also a driveway tree growing directly across from DR1 and is very similarly shaped to DR1. It produces an insane amount of yellow apples and it too is visited daily by the deer during daylight hours. Last year it lost a large branch as there simply were too many apples for the shape and size of the branch.
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This next tree is a real beauty both in terms of apples produced and its shape and size. It seldom has any branches break. It is a very old tree with a height of over fifty feet and a drip line of around 90 feet. This tree named C1 is truly a beauty with the kind of genes that have stood the test of time. It is located with full exposure to the west wind which has been pretty strong at times over this trees lifetime.DSC_0083ab.jpg This tree Called A2 is possibly our heaviest apple and browse producer on the property. Yellow/green apples and tons of them. A very major branch broke two years ago but the tree did not let up. There are worn paths coming to this tree from every direction.

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This next tree with the orange tape on the trunk called A1 is a tree that most people might not want at first glance. It begins dropping apples in June and drops constantly throughout the summer. The deer flock to it all summer. Then when the apples ripen and the surprisingly huge amount still left fall to the ground the deer ignore them. But after a about three weeks when they have eaten their then favorite apples they come back and eat every single apple lying under this tree--no matter how rotted. So A1 feeds them early and then again late. It is a real sleeper and has the shape that can hold a lot of weight.

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This next tree G1 is also shown on page 3 post 45 of this thread. It is the very late tree that today is still holding apples. It has a ton of apples and is a very wide tree with it being about as wide as it is high. It will be used to cross with other trees to hopefully create more late ripening apple trees. It will be crossed with other lates as well as mids to develop a diverse mix of later producing trees.

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And this final tree of the seven G2 is strong tree about twenty-five feet high and 30 ft. wide. It has larger apples and has well worn paths coming to it from decades of visits from various directions. It is a great producer and a strong tree. A very large limb was removed from it two years ago in preparation for installing a fence;It didn't slow down its production any and it has been a great tree. The fence posts are twenty ft. apart for size reference.

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All of these trees have about 50% bare ground under them due to the amount of deer traffic they receive. So That's the types of trees that will be used in creating seeds to plant here. I consider these trees to be more desirable than a delicious or other modern apple for this deer property and look forward to stacking the deck with good crosses to make some great seeds.

I collected scions this week and had some with a silver cover on some buds. I don't know if that is powdery mildew or not. Most years here the winters hit minus twenty-five so that has not been an issue.
 
I don't know if I missed it but are you grafting this year? I have been collecting scions as well. I think I am going to graft some of those flowering crabs over. This will be my first attempt so I am a little hesitant to cut apple trees in an attempt to improve happy, growing trees. If you are grafting I can get you some Kerr scions. I have a few planted and I think they will be the best tree for our area. They are a 2" crab that appears to slowly drop all Fall. They are also disease resistant and late bloomers. I think they could be as fool proof as I can hope for. I am hopeful I will have my first blossoms this year.
 
Great stuff Chainsaw and others.
I would sure be interested in any late blooming apple trees from up north! Maybe mark a few this spring? Ya, like you need more to do.:)
I dont see a lot of woody winter browsing down here. Winters are too green. My rye hardly stopped growing this winter. Not complaining really, except its too warm this year in particular. Gonna be another screwed up spring. Maybe like we have never seen before.
 
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