Recreating a Deer Woods

[Chummer]

Here is the Jerky recipe to the best of my memory. I may or may not have a patent on it.
1 cup ketchup
1 cup coke
1 packet good season salad dressing mix
Cayenne pepper to taste.
Liquid smoke optional, usually I add it but I forgot on this batch.
Smoke for 4-5 hours @175

Anyone that has had a steak tip sandwich outside Feneway park this is what is believed to be their secret marinade.
Thanks for another great hunt. It is so much more fun when you anticipate a deer at any moment.

 

[Chainsaw]

Here is the Jerky recipe to the best of my memory. I may or may not have a patent on it.
1 cup ketchup
1 cup coke
1 packet good season salad dressing mix
Cayenne pepper to taste.
Liquid smoke optional, usually I add it but I forgot on this batch.
Smoke for 4-5 hours @175

Anyone that has had a steak tip sandwich outside Fenway park this is what is believed to be their secret marinade.
Thanks for another great hunt. It is so much more fun when you anticipate a deer at any moment.

Thank you for the jerky Jeremy and especially thank you for sharing your recipe. As I told you, Anne and I had never tasted jerky that we liked; It wasn't that jerky was not edible but all that we had tasted wasn't much beyond edible to us. The jerky you brought over has completely changed my mind on jerky;it is so tasty, so not greasy or fatty and so delightfully different than anything else. It has bite but not too much, just the right amount. Your jerky is right up there in flavor with the best Great Lake Cheeses and as all northern New Yorkers know that is saying something! Your jerky should be called FiveX jerky for sure. It is all I can do to save Anne a few bites for when she returns from her Florida sewing trip tomorrow. I can't wait to see her reaction when she experiences the flavors in your venison jerky. She may even take her muzzle loader off the wall to get us just one more deer just for jerky making.

And as to a good/great hunt, you are very welcome; As I told Rusty, it really is an honor to spend a day or days enjoying the company of true outdoor people, people who really enjoy the thrill of the outdoors and the camaraderie and excitement of the hunt whether successful or not and understand and have themselves taken hunting and habitat management to a level beyond what was even thought of thirty years ago. We are all so lucky to be able to do what we do and to have a forum like Deerhunterforum.com to meet up with others that enjoy the chase as much or more than the catching.

 

[Chainsaw]

I have been setting out trail cameras since they were invented and even the trail strings before that but it was more of a novelty than anything. Cheap cameras were junk and the only ones that I found to work were just way too expensive to have more than a couple or so. A thread by Tap enlightened me that inexpensive cameras were now being produced that actually worked. So although I have been using cameras since they first came out, this is only the end of the first year that I have used them for other than seeing what might be out there. With that said, do not consider my posts as coming from years of experience as I am in the infant stages of learning what the cameras can teach me.

My goal in running cameras is to first see what bucks are out there and second to determine best places to set stands for future years to intercept mature bucks. Though I have been hunting this property for thirty-ish years I have been hunting at best 2 1/2 year old bucks. The new game of actually hunting 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 year old bucks has shown to be completely different. The 3 1/2 and up deer are like a completely different animal;everything I have learned in the past for shooting bucks almost hurts me as these older deer are a whole new deal for sure! So keep that in mind and for those of you in the same boat as I enjoy learning this new stuff with me.

The year started out with six solid operating plot watchers, two perfectly working REconyx and 14 new browning Strike force cameras. so I'm starting this story with putting a single camera on a special doe bed and showing just a couple of days of activity on top of this doe bed. When the property was logged a tape was put around this twenty foot square area to mark it as off limits to chainsaws and skidders. It was a high spot in a level woods that rose a foot or so from the surrounding terrain and usually had evidence of a deer bed or two in it.

If you look extra hard a few flat spots in the leaves are evident showing the deer had been bedding here as they used to

Here the doe is about to bed.

And sure enough she beds down.

And her bedding rest is interrupted almost immediately.



She gets up,runs off and very soon she returns to bed again but is again quickly pursued.

Her day has more to come. Wife says TIME TO EAT.will continue.

 

[Chainsaw]

Then another of next years shooters enters the scene.
She returns at 3:15 to bed again.

Within 11 minutes the first buck is back again. This doe is having a busy day! She runs off yet again and he leaves his mark in her bed.

She returns to the bed in the early AM and she is quickly pursued yet again.

And yet again that afternoon.







At this point we put her on the don't shoot list!

 

[Chainsaw]

Two days go by and she seems to have been forgotten but then her bed is checked by another suitor.


And then the doe shows up again in the afternoon.

and four minutes behind her is an old flame.


And that night three more bucks came a calling. The next morning Rusty visited and we were hunting in this area so we pulled the card from cam 8 that had been set out the week before. I had intended to not visit any of the cams that had been set out the week before but because we were right there I couldn't help myself. I can't wait to check the other 33 cams but am planning on holding off for yet another week to check and pull the cams from their current locations with it being the first and final time for fourteen of the thirty-three cams still out (added a few cams since the season began). I don't expect all of the new locations to be winners but this one sure was. A new stand will be installed at this camera 8 location for 2019 hunting as soon as the weather permits.

 

[dogghr]

Cool pics and story Chainsaw. I got a Spypoint evolink for 180$ and I must say I'm hooked. My farm has very poor cell service but I did get 2 of 5 bars on the camera on the back ridge and it sends a pic to my cell phone each time it sees a deer. Pretty cool stuff and 2 year warranty. I posted a sample pic in a thread on trail cams section today if you want to see. Keep showing.

 

[Chainsaw]

Cool pics and story Chainsaw. I got a Spypoint evolink for 180$ and I must say I'm hooked. My farm has very poor cell service but I did get 2 of 5 bars on the camera on the back ridge and it sends a pic to my cell phone each time it sees a deer. Pretty cool stuff and 2 year warranty. I posted a sample pic in a thread on trail cams section today if you want to see. Keep showing.

I checked out your Spypoint pic Dogghr--very neat. I'm not there yet. I'm still trying to find the best stand sites for 2019 to hunt older bucks and can only get that with a season worth of pictures from lots of locations to analyze all at once. The $89.95 Brownings (on sales) fit the bill for that perfectly.

It is pretty exciting though to see the prices coming down on camera systems like the Spypoint you have. Currently though the instant feedback cams don't fit my program. And I do not carry a cell phone except for emergency use out on the trail. Am just not a phone guy.

 

[Chainsaw]

As I look towards 2019 and beyond there are many projects that when done could continue to improve this Recreating A Deer Woods project on this property. And some of those projects are ongoing and will be accomplished for sure. I can see continued improvements to this property bringing it up a notch or two but have been thinking for a year or so that it's maybe time to make the picture larger than I had been seeing it. One project stands out from all the rest in that vein and that is being a catalyst in Recreating The Deer Woods in as many area properties owned/controlled by like minded people as possible; not only would it help other landowners and some of whom have become friends to enjoy better deer hunting on their lands but it will also add to the hunting in this entire area including likely even my property.

I've tried unofficially helping others to improve their properties but haven't seen much forward motion so I've decided to start a more formal local Deer Management Cooperative for the properties in this area if I can drum up enough landowner interest. It will take a lot of time but I think it will pay off in so many ways. Beginning efforts will be to approach landowners bordering or close to this property to see how many are interested in actually joining in an effort to improving the deer habitat, following and helping to enforce all game laws, and managing the deer population while protecting both fawn and yearling bucks for the shared goal of all of us enjoying better deer hunting.

The NY DEC is encouraging co-ops and they published an article in the 2018 regulations book given out with every license about the very successful Yates county NY Deer Management Co-operative.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/15huntguide.pdf note-the link loads the whole PDF and then one must scribe down to page 32 to see the article.

I contacted John Hammer the Yates County Deer Management co-operative organizer and he was most helpful in giving me some direction in how to start and run a Deer Management Co-operative (co-op). Their co-op has over 10,000 acres officially signed up with it and another 15,000 acres unofficially following the program and other co-ops have been created as a result of the success of the Yates County Deer Management co-op. By all measures the co-ops have successfully improved the deer hunting in that county. I would be thrilled to get a thousand acres or so signed up here in 2019 to get one started here but that is getting ahead of myself.

The first step will be a landowners meeting in late January to introduce them to the Deer Management co-op concept and see how many landowners have an interest in forming, joining and participating in a Deer Management Co-op for this area.

 

[Buckly]

I hope your much more successful in that than I was ever able to do. I found many, actually almost all were interested and on board but, the reality was much different in practice. When it came down to actually implimenting some controls they did what they always did. I tried harder and expanded out. People were on board right up until it came time to make harvest decisions then it went right back to same old same old. I gave up after many years. As you have done, I have put my experience to work helping others to set up their properties. Alas, I find the same results. Either in habitat improvement, habitat manipulation or hunting strategies and goals. Always on board but never in reality. The level that we as habitat managers, have attained and promote is of the rarest interest to many.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thanks for the feedback Buckly; the older mindset around here is just as you had there and that part is discouraging. I'm hoping that the timing now though is exactly in our favor as compared to what it might have been even just a few years ago. Thinking is gradually changing and for anyone hunting on lands abutting this property they are seeing or should be seeing a 2 1/2 year old or older deer now and then even if it is a dead one in the back of a buddy's truck;2 1/2 year old bucks are not rare anymore here in this immediate area. It shouldn't be too much of a stretch to get more people to let yearlings walk for the sake of better hunting at least on private land. The Yates County Deer Management Co-op voted to set the buck size at minimum antler width of 14 inches outside with exceptions for first time shooters and very old shooters. That protected enough of their yearlings,that the resultant 2 1/2's some of which made it thru the next two seasons really upped the game.

The most important change and the hardest will be getting people to follow the game laws especially the one where during rifle each person gets to use only the one buck tag assigned to them and that is it. If we were to accomplish only that it would improve the area hunting a great deal. The game wardens have helped and will help us somewhat with that one but they can only do so much on that without landowner/hunter support and peer pressure. I'm hoping that some of the wives that don't hunt that buy licenses might lose interest in doing that if/when someone is or some people are arrested and appropriately fined for cross tagging and the word of it gets out that it is no longer acceptable. Note-it has always been illegal here but was socially acceptable behavior and still is to some still holding on to old ways.

Your statement "The level that we as habitat managers, have attained and promote is of the rarest interest to many." is so, so soberly true; still if we can elevate their interest and commitment to match even twenty-five percent of ours we will have made some headway. We can't make others think like we think at this time nor should we try but there is the reward for them. If they follow the game laws and let yearling bucks walk, manage the herd size and recreate deer habitat they will have greatly improved hunting.

Like they used to say in the corporate world, we'll run it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it or something like that. If it doesn't fly it will just be another swing and a miss. In either case we will continue to protect our bucks in and around this property and work with the game wardens whenever we get the opportunity.

 

[Chummer]

Cooked the Korean barbecue tonight. Huge hit, I even had to take some out of the jerky pile and cook a second batch. Neighbor kid didn’t want to try it, then she called to ask her mom if she could stay for dinner and ate a pile of it. Top notch.

 

[Chainsaw]

Cooked the Korean barbecue tonight. Huge hit, I even had to take some out of the jerky pile and cook a second batch. Neighbor kid didn’t want to try it, then she called to ask her mom if she could stay for dinner and ate a pile of it. Top notch.

That's great Jeremy! It is always a winner for us and it is so easy to cook. I'm glad you gave it try.

 

[Triple C]

Dave - An admirable mission you have in attempting to develop a co-op of surrounding property owners to collectively manage their property to improve the age structure of bucks and perhaps the overall herd dynamics of the deer population in general. I too have attempted such on a much smaller scale. My neighbor to the north and south lease their property to clubs. 1000 acres to the south and approximately 400 acres to the north. Neighbor to the west is high fence on his 1300+ so all good there and neighbor to the west runs cattle with very little hunting pressure. The hunting culture for many in our area stems from decades of doing the same thing - if it has bone it's game on. With 287 acres of prime habitat and extreme trigger control, we have managed to maintain a very healthy doe population that uses the farm daily. And, we are very successful in getting a substantial number of bucks to the 2.5 yr old age range each year as we head in to the season. Getting those 2.5 yr olds thru the season is a whole different story. Many disappear as the season progresses and are never seen on camera again. A very, very few make it to 3.5 or older. Since purchasing the property in 2011, we've killed only one 4.5 yr old buck and six 3.5 yr old bucks. Our largest was a P&Y 3.5 yr old that scored 136 and change. Not bad for our area. However, to continually pass on the 2.5 yr olds and watch the vast majority disappear each year is a bit disheartening. IMO, the 2.5 yr old buck might as well have a bounty on his head in our state. They can push a 100 inches in bone and usually have a small basket rack of 6 to 8 points, making them look bigger than they are from behind a scope. With fairly high hunter density, it's often, "If I don't shoot it the next guy will" prevails. We've already seen several beautiful 2.5 yr olds disappear from camera this year that were passed on multiple times on our place. They are all to often, prime, prime targets for most guys that hunt our area. And, the 2.5 yr old is often the most aggressive in chasing doe(s) all around the woods as he's not quite figured it all out. They chase and chase and might as well say "somebody shoot me".

At the end of the day, we take it in stride and remind ourselves that all hunters don't have the same goals and desires as we do. And that's ok. If they're obeying the game laws then who am I to suggest that they not shoot a legal deer of their choosing? We just keep on passing on them and hope that a very small number make it to 3.5 and older. Here's a prime example of a buck that might as well have a bounty on his head - he's a beautiful 2.5 yr old and only by pure luck, hasn't crossed paths with a hunter on adjoining property. Otherwise he would be dead, and as of this writing, may be.


We still have 3.5 weeks of rifle season ahead of us here in GA. I'd give this buck a 25% chance of making it thru the season - maybe less. Only thing he's got going for him is that this late in the season a lot of guys are not hunting as often as during the pre-rut and rut phase so not as many opportunities to walk in front of a trigger. Hope he does as he will be on our hit list for next year. But...a whole bunch similar to him never make it thru.

I'll be following along in your effort to continue to improve your area thru the co-op cause. And, I firmly believe that if anyone can pull it off it's probably you. Your passion is contagious! Merry Christmas Dave! Keep on posting.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thank you for the vote of confidence and encouragement TripleC; honestly starting a deer management co-op is a huge almost daunting task for me to plan out in working with so many diverse interests regarding how each landowner runs THEIR hunting on THEIR land. Since they are not actively seeking change, I need to convince them that the rewards of hunting older deer is achievable on their properties and well worth an unfilled tag now and then and is also worth following the game laws. Luckily we have had a spectacular rut year on this property with thousands of pictures to back it up while others have had a very poor rut year so timing is on our side and if I can put together a good presentation of what our hunting was like this year there will be a reaction from them for sure and hopefully more positive than negative. With hunting season now over there are great deer still alive and roaming our land, its now or never. If I can't convince them this year that northern NY in today's world can and does produce great deer under the right conditions, I probably never could.I will not be alone on this endeavor; My closest neighbor will help as he is just that kind of person and one of a small group of very dedicated and enthusiastic younger hunters has offered to help me and likely others will follow his lead. That may be just enough extra umph to pull it off. I just must keep the first year scope of the Co-op narrowed enough so as not to become overwhelmed.

Regarding your property producing multiple 2 1/2 year olds year after year and seeing only a small number survive; that is truly frustrating but it was normal here as well. It sure is a better place to be though than those still struggling to see even a single yearling make it to 2 1/2. We still have our limit set at 2 1/2 and up ourselves as some years there may be only one or two 3 1/2 available and some in my group are thrilled with a 2 1/2 year old although I pass on 2 1/2 and my wife normally does as well. Even with that we end up taking only one to three 2 1/2 and up bucks per year off this property (some years no 2 1/2's get taken) and at least one year even no adult bucks were taken(The word adult is used because I'm not counting a mistake fawn buck taken by me of all people every once in a while).This year is different regarding the buck inventory here with 3 1/2's a plenty! Still we took only two adult bucks. Hopefully the well stocked 3 1/2 and up buck inventory on this property was not an anomaly. An advantage that this area has in getting 2 1/2's to the next level is that while the legal hunting seasons are long, the weather can be really tough from Nov. 20 on and that severely limits the amount of hunters still out there.

This is one of the shooters that ended up surviving the season; note the temperature and the extremely limited visibility on this Nov. 16 day. Even though deer were legally shootable after this date and some giants were still being taken legally and illegally, the area woods were pretty quiet hunter wise. So in this case the harsh climate here is "helping" some deer survive to true maturity.

TripleC, for your group to have taken seven bucks 3 1/2 and up in seven or eight years is pretty darn good in my book. It is about what we have done here and I consider it to have been a home run, not a grand slam but a great intermediate leg in our journey. With the combined fourteen hundred acres to your south and north are they on board with letting 2 1/2's walk or are they just letting yearlings go and thus are the ones taking the majority of 2 1/2 year olds? I can understand if they aren't in the let the 2 1/2's walk arena. It might be too quiet of a hunting season for them if they were. Being on a lease they are no where near invested in the idea of growing older deer as most on this forum. On properties that large a middle road might be accepted by either the landowner who can negotiate the terms of the lease or the hunting club members some of whom will feel one way on the subject and some on the other. In other words if they re not passing 2 1/2's already maybe an agreement could be reached where they limit the number of 2 1/2's taken each year so that more bucks do in fact make it into the next level yet they won't feel the pain as with the larger step of stopping all at once. Something like in 2019, only a combined total of twelve 2 1/2's are taken and then they are off limits and then in 2020 only ten would be taken etc. I would presume that they have not had near the results with 3 1/2's as you if they are the ones shooting most of the 2 1/2's. They might be convince able.

And I hope the 2 1/2 in your post makes the season; he is a fine looking deer in the making!

 

[Chainsaw]

This is the recipe we use for the Korean Barbecue venison that Chummer commented on. The original is published in "The Complete Venison Cookbook" or "Venison Cookery". We have changed it over the years as below to suit us. The ingredients we use are a pinch or two of black pepper, 1/4 cup of low sodium soy sauce,1 table spoon water, 3 tablespoons brown sugar, 2 table spoons of sesame oil, 2 teaspoons dehydrated minced onions, 1/4 teaspoon of garlic, 1/2 teaspoon of ground ginger.
Mix all of that together and about a pound of venison cut into bite size pieces. We use loins or top round pieces. The venison is cooked quickly so the better cuts are used but usually the scrap parts/odd shapes from those cuts are used.

Let the venison sit in the marinade/sauce for no more than twenty minutes--it gets too salty tasting for our taste if left in any longer. Heat pan using close to high heat and using a slotted spoon move venison into heated pan. Venison will immediately sizzle if pan is ready. Cook just long enough for med rare and stir and flip a lot. Total cook time is usually less than a few minutes (Five minutes would be too many). No matter how quick we have cooked it it has never come out too rare. It makes for more perfect cooking if the venison was room temperature at first but it is ok if not.

 

[Triple C]

With the combined fourteen hundred acres to your south and north are they on board with letting 2 1/2's walk or are they just letting yearlings go and thus are the ones taking the majority of 2 1/2 year olds?

And I hope the 2 1/2 in your post makes the season; he is a fine looking deer in the making!

Dave, the 1000 acre tract that joins me to the south is not much of a concern. They don't shoot a lot of deer based on number of shots heard during previous seasons. I've yet to meet any of them. A huge swamp and creek separates our properties. As for the 400 acre tract to the north, for years it has been a killing field. But, times are changing. From what some of the new members have told me, the landowner has put in harvest and antler restrictions. A changing of the guard is occurring on this property in terms of membership and it sure looks like it is headed in the right direction for improved deer management.

 

[farmhunter]

This kind of change is happening all around -as I've mentioned - a similar case for us Chainsaw. It does seem that people, neighbors are following the lead of a few. Any buck seen, much less shot after opening day was a rare occurrence around me when I started hunting. I've been keeping harvest records on 200-400 acres of land since 1984. In recent years - I can only formally keep track of our 180 acres, but my 150 acre nieghbor and my 400 acre neighbors share their harvest data with me. And I get informal (read dont trust totals) information from 160 and 50 acre neighbors,

Good luck if you give a presentation. I think you will have those neighbor's respect if nothing else - and I do think that little voice in the back of their heads speaks to them even if they choose not to join all in.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

The hunter density is very high around me, and the 2 1/2 year olds get obliterated around the rifle opener here as well. APR’s have allowed the spikes and 4 points to make it to small 6 and 8 points but that’s usually where their lives end. Around me, I think the only way to get a good amount of bucks to make it to 3 1/2 is to only allow one buck tag.
The properties surrounding me are mainly extended family so we’ve been collaborating a lot lately. While I can’t ask others to stop shooting 2 1/2 year old bucks, I think I’ll begin to mention that I’m going for 3 1/2 and older and hope that others begin to buy in and follow.
You can grow the best food in the county, but you can’t control what others shoot


Sent from my iPhone using Deer Hunter Forum

 

[Chainsaw]

Dave, the 1000 acre tract that joins me to the south is not much of a concern. They don't shoot a lot of deer based on number of shots heard during previous seasons. I've yet to meet any of them. A huge swamp and creek separates our properties. As for the 400 acre tract to the north, for years it has been a killing field. But, times are changing. From what some of the new members have told me, the landowner has put in harvest and antler restrictions. A changing of the guard is occurring on this property in terms of membership and it sure looks like it is headed in the right direction for improved deer management.

Just returned from a rest from winter, loved the Georgia rt. 95; three lanes, no potholes and the cleanest roadside between here and Vero Beach Florida. And the Georgia welcome center was awesome--very relaxing and interesting break from driving. It is great to hear that times are changing for improved deer management in your neighborhood. Having a few 3 1/2's on your area will be likely now and it isn't everything but sure is a great thing to have. I look forward to hearing how it goes.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thank you for the encouragement Farmhunter, I'm sure that some will join in and help improve the hunting for all and some may not. I'm putting together data to show what is happening here to help convince them that it can happen on their grounds as well. While my property is larger than most it is still very vulnerable to neighbors as there are many, many neighbors and almost all hunt and many shoot as they please. It will take me a little longer to get an initial meeting going as planned but I want to have as solid data as I can going in.

I'm working this week on defining the population numbers and buck to doe ratio along with other data. Numbers are being crunched from about 40,000 trail cam pictures taken this past fall and it is a larger job than I had anticipated. Trail Cams were set at three pictures per sighting with two cams set in mini food plots(less than 1/2 acre) and 29 cams set on trails in the woods with a a couple of those set on actual deer beds. Note-started the season with sixteen trail cams and added 15 more in mid season. Printed buck pictures of each sighting of the top seven bucks on the property that made it thru seasons end accompanied me to Florida where I got to studying them regarding day versus night time activity. The numbers were very encouraging to us and a great testament that the low pressure hunting so many on this forum practice does really help to encourage deer movement in daylight hours.

Trail cams set on about 350 acres took pictures of 33 different bucks thought to be 2 1/2 years old or older. Total pictures of the top seven shooter deer that survived the season was 109 separate sightings so the average of the seven top end bucks had his picture taken in 15.57 separate sightings. There were three pic taken on each sighting but we count the three as just one. The total number of pictures taken during the night time (dark to daylight) was 31 so 28.44% of buck movement caught on camera was nocturnal. The remaining 78 sightings (71.55%) were daytime taken buck pictures.

Additionally two separate sightings of deer breeding behavior were recorded during daytime and zero during night time. If we assume at this point that there were 66 does on the property that got bred three times each (3 x 66=198 breedings) and the cameras caught 2 or 1.01% of the breeding then they also caught only 1.01% of the deer activity on the property.

Notes-I did not calculate day versus night nor even total separate sightings for other than the top seven deer because I'm focusing on the behavior of the top seven deer. Some deer spooked and likely avoided those particular camera setups after that; some deer didn't seem to mind the cams. The two deer during breeding activities didn't even notice the cams or at least didn't react to them in any way. Generally I'm surmising that most deer avoided the cams after their first picture experience rather than completely ignoring them.

Here are a couple of pics of an older deer that didn't make the top seven cut. He reminds me of a Tugg Hill deer that Chummer shot a couple of years ago and may very well have come from "The Hill".



Best of luck to you Chipdasqrrl in upping the game to 3 1/2. It sure isn't easy and making the jump for me to let 2 1/2 go took a long while. I can understand why those with a lot less opportunities than I may never get there but it is ok because it is beginning to work here anyhow. Apparently once they hit 3 1/2 a higher percentage of them make it beyond that or so it appears so far to be that way.