Matt Galati
Member
What are some seed make ups you guys use for your shaded logging roads. My soil is very rocky and pretty poor.
Planting Logging Roads
- Thread starter Matt Galati
- Start date
Clover is our go to here for shaded areas...need some sun throughout the day but clover will grow in poor, rocky soil...at least it will here...
Matt Galati
Member
any type of clover?
j-bird
Well-Known Member
What are you trying to accomplish on these trails? If your using them for access - do you really want deer feeding in them?
Will these trails see lots of traffic? Do you think you may have some erosion issues?
For deer food - I agree with clover - perennial white clover. If your worried about erosion and or lots of vehicle traffic - I would stick with more of a perennial grass like orchardgrass and timothy. If it's real bad - then a fescue may be needed, but I try to avoid if I can.
Just some things to think about.....
Will these trails see lots of traffic? Do you think you may have some erosion issues?
For deer food - I agree with clover - perennial white clover. If your worried about erosion and or lots of vehicle traffic - I would stick with more of a perennial grass like orchardgrass and timothy. If it's real bad - then a fescue may be needed, but I try to avoid if I can.
Just some things to think about.....
Matt Galati
Member
I am not planting all of my logging roads but there are a few that connect food plots that i would like to to try and create some lines of movement on. My theory is the more area a deer needs to explore on my property the more time they will spend. The more time they spend, the greater chance i have to kill them.
None of the logging roads i will be planting will be used for access. I love clover, i think there is nothing better early season. My issue is it gets cold real quick in upstate NY. I feel like come november clover has little to no draw, i could be mistaken. How does fescue hold up with the cold?
j-bird
Well-Known Member
OK - I see no issue with that. I just hear people planting trails with deer food and then they also want to use the trails to access stands and the like and that tends to not work in a dual purpose role as well. What sort of light is going to be available and will you have a means to work the soil at all? I only recommended fescue for erosion control - it's way, way, way down on the list from a plot planting perspective, but great for holding soil. If you can work the soil - I would consider clover and a fall annual mix - of brassica and cereal grains. These should give you food later into the season for you. If you can't work the soil but can get at least down to bare dirt I would plant PPT and winter rye. The turnips are small seed and simply need pushed into the ground, rye will almost grow on dry concrete and will grow as late as anything as far as temps go. Both will need access to sun light for any decent result however. Clover is always your best bet simply because it is so adaptable to soil and light conditions that are less than perfect. Something to consider for late season food is preferred browse plants and shrubs. These can often be overlooked but are an important part of the deer's diet as well. For those I would suggest looking at native plants that you see browse activity on or suggestions from someone more familiar with your regional area.
Something else to consider may be a shift in your plotting. You have other plots - depending on size and when/where you hunt them, you may consider changing what you plant in those and make these trails your perennial clover plots. This may put you in a better position of early archery seasons and may give you other options you can now explore in the "larger" plots - depending on their size as well. Just something to think about. That availability of these trails now, may change the dynamic on your place if you choose to do that. Look beyond the immediate - the logging can really change things and you may need to take a step back and re-evaluate to make the most of this new dynamic.
Something else to consider may be a shift in your plotting. You have other plots - depending on size and when/where you hunt them, you may consider changing what you plant in those and make these trails your perennial clover plots. This may put you in a better position of early archery seasons and may give you other options you can now explore in the "larger" plots - depending on their size as well. Just something to think about. That availability of these trails now, may change the dynamic on your place if you choose to do that. Look beyond the immediate - the logging can really change things and you may need to take a step back and re-evaluate to make the most of this new dynamic.
Matt Galati
Member
Great advice here j bird. i think the perennials on the logging roads with annuals in the plots is a great idea. Ive been doing alot of hinging to try and improve woody browse. Thanks for the help
j-bird
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to talk you out of anything - just look at options. There is no 1 way to do any of this.....just what works best for you. I have been guilty of being set in my ways even as other options surfaced and it took me a while to see it. If I offered a spark of something, great, that is what we are all here for. Take lots of pictures and share them with us - you will be glad you have the pics and we can all learn something along the way.
dogghr
Well-Known Member
I plant 2 heavily shaded farm roads for a hundred yards back where they enter food plots. Plant usually RC, oats, WR mostly. I have thrown it brassica also, but they typically don't do great. I spread pellet lime and 19-19-19. Never done a soil test there. Overseed then pack with tractor or ATV. I used to do each fall, but do to constraints, I haven't last 2 years. But the clover and reseeding WR just keeps growing. Doubt I will replant until it ceases to exist. It makes for a great fall plot and deer and bear feed along them morning and evening sometimes without ever going to the main plots. If you can hinge cut to create bedding areas just past them, they are quite the magnet.
Chainsaw
Well-Known Member
For me anything that makes a deer like my woods more than the surrounding woods, I'm all for it. If it makes hunting them harder that's OK. Combined the Muzzle loader and rifle season spans eight weeks. Hunting needs to be difficult or it would end too quickly. I'm going with clover,winter rye and winter wheat for planting some of our logging roads.
Matt Galati
Member
Thinking ill plant the trails late season with WR, durana, alsike and chicory. Save my plots for annuals like brassica & soybeans.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
j-bird
Well-Known Member
Do you know if your deer like brassica? Deer use of brassica is VERY regional - some places the deer love them, and others the deer virtually ignore them.
Do your deer numbers and plot size work in your favor for beans? Normal ag beans are not browse resistant. Small plots, decent deer numbers or both can easily lead to bean plots of chewed up stubs by June. You can plant forage beans, but they tend to be more expensive and some don't produce the grain like ag beans do for later in the year and they stay green later as well. Typically you need to either protect the beans from the deer or simply overwhelm the deer with far more beans than they can ever eat.
Don't go too light on the cool season perennials (the clovers you listed) - these are very valuable to your deer in the spring and fall and in drought conditions where annuals may fail. You can also mix and match as well. I tend to have my perennial plots right next to my annual plots - creates a nearly year round food supply in one location - so hopefully the deer continue to come to the same place vs me having to worry about which food they are most interested. I can see the value of a trail plot between two plots or even connecting to a bedding area as well. Lots of options.
Matt Galati
Member
As a hunting plot i have had great experience and awful experience with brassica. Much of that i attribute to the ever changing environment that comes hand in hand with managing habitat in the mountains. With so many big woods we can never predict the acorn crop, or if mother nature will fry all of the apple trees. In years where the acorns dont drop much and we get a late frost my brassica has been a premium attractant as early as columbus day.
Just this past year deer didnt touch my brassica until january.
Ive had good experience with RW beans. I know they are pricey but im not planting big acreage and they have held up well with browse pressure. They also produced a good amount of grain for me.
I have three plots on this property. One plot is planted in alfalfa. Im going to frost seed some clovers in there this spring. My other plot I intend on planting a mixture of round up ready sugar beets and soybeans with a low count of corn for cover. The plot is only 1.5 acres. If it gets crushed its ok. The early planting date involved with soybeans will allow me to save the plot with cool season annuals if need be.
By third plot i will plant in a brassica mix with the trails planted in my perennials. My gut tells me i need more cold hardy food.
Just this past year deer didnt touch my brassica until january.
Ive had good experience with RW beans. I know they are pricey but im not planting big acreage and they have held up well with browse pressure. They also produced a good amount of grain for me.
I have three plots on this property. One plot is planted in alfalfa. Im going to frost seed some clovers in there this spring. My other plot I intend on planting a mixture of round up ready sugar beets and soybeans with a low count of corn for cover. The plot is only 1.5 acres. If it gets crushed its ok. The early planting date involved with soybeans will allow me to save the plot with cool season annuals if need be.
By third plot i will plant in a brassica mix with the trails planted in my perennials. My gut tells me i need more cold hardy food.
j-bird
Well-Known Member
Ok - so you have the experience with those - that's cool. I just wasn't sure. I have seen rookies jump into some of these sorts of things and not understand what they where getting into. Your obviously not a rookie at this so, I think your fine. I like a decent amount of cool season perennials around simply because of them being so easy and cover both spring and fall and tend to be more drought resistant.
Matt Galati
Member
My property is 3.5 hours away from where I live. The ease of perennials, from planting to maintenance makes them so appealing. I just feel they lose attraction in the cold weather when the rut is really on. Maybe I'm mistaken? I find myself always considering just replanting the plot in clovers because it's easy to frost seed and always seems to come in and draw well
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The Famous Grouse
Member
I agree to a point, but I wonder if some don't give up on brassicas too soon? All animals have a "food memory" such that they will seek out the food sources that were good for them before and they will do so at the time and place where these sources were found before. This is part instinct and part learned behavior.
I live in a place where there is NO agricultural planting of the "money" brassicas, turnips, beets, or radish. So I went in knowing that the deer could be reluctant to feed on these crops. And I was right! They totally ignored all the bulbs for the first 2 years. Honestly, I had turnips rotting in the plots in the spring.
Well, in year 3 they figured it out. I cannot be sure it made a difference, but I decided to help them out by pulling out some radish and turnip and just stomping the stuffing out of them every time I visited the plot after September 1. My theory was that with the way scent rules a deer's senses, if it smelled good, they would try it. And they did! Then they ate 5 acres of it like there was no tomorrow.
Just my experience with Brassicas, I'm going to keep planting it becuse I have no doubt that when the deer figure out they like it, it's dang near the only thing they want to eat.
Grouse
j-bird
Well-Known Member
I agree as well Grouse. I have planted mine for several years now - simply as cheap insurance and I see a little more use every year, but for the most part in my area they pretty much ignore it......but I also tend to have standing beans or standing corn right there as well. I just didn't want anyone thinking brassica would be a "money" type plot the first time they planted it......some get that result , but some don't......and some never do.
Elkaddict
Well-Known Member
I'd give rutabagas a try before throwing in the towel on brassicas. Matt, as I've expressed, variety matters a lot, but so does cold season tonnage. For off years with acorns/apples, I feel extra cold weather annuals are key. I'm still presently 60% annuals and am disinclined to change with what I see right now. I wish it were not the case....
Matt Galati
Member
Elk-
Do you agree with my experience with clovers? I find very little draw come November?
I see welters has a new variety called frosty berseem. Claims its palatable down to 10 degrees
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