Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
This is a very unusual sight here. I thought the coyotes had wiped all of them out.
-
The forum has been upgraded to support both light and dark themes. Click here for directions.
Pair of Grey Foxes
- Thread starter Native Hunter
- Start date
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Lots of coyotes too?
weekender21
Well-Known Member
I thought reds were the ones decimated by coyotes but I may have that backwards.
I’ve seen a few reds in person at our place and get occasional night pictures but can’t tell if they’re reds or grays.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’ve seen a few reds in person at our place and get occasional night pictures but can’t tell if they’re reds or grays.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Greys are known for their superior tree climbing ability. That should help them some with coyotes.
weekender21
Well-Known Member
That’s what I’ve always heard as well. The reds are considered more vulnerable. I was pretty surprised to see the first one last year. Now I’ve seen two!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
weekender21
Well-Known Member
I’m no predator ecologist but from what I understand, coyotes and foxes are too similar in the role they play on the landscape. That’s why they actively seek out and kill foxes.
Interesting and adjacent, wolves in Yellowstone practically removed every coyote from the landscape due to seeing them as competition. The wolves don’t aggressively seek out foxes, in theory because there is no real overlap of the prey they hunt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, and coyotes would have no trouble killing foxes for two reasons:
1. They are more than twice the size of a fox.
2. Coyotes hunt in packs (I've personally witnessed packs of 7). Foxes are either in pairs or alone. If the fox gets cornered, it doesn't stand a chance.
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
OBSERVED INTERACTIONS BETWEEN COYOTES AND RED FOXES ALAN B. SARGEANT AND STEPHEN H. ALLEN U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center, Jamestown, ND 58402 North Dakota Game and Fish Department, Bismarck, ND 58501 . "...We solicited accounts of coyote-red fox interactions from university and natural-resource-agency personnel in several states and provinces of the midcontinent region and from other individuals in the region known or recommended to us. We requested accounts of coyotes killing red foxes and vice versa, coyotes chasing red foxes and vice versa, coyotes visiting rearing dens of red foxes when pups were present and vice versa, coyotes and red foxes simultaneously rearing pups in nearby dens, and coyotes and red foxes near each other without evidence of antagonism. We received 42 accounts of coyote-red fox interactions from 28 people (includes two accounts made us). Except for one observation made in California in 1965, they were from the midcontinent region, mostly North Dakota, and were made during 1970-1985. Most (71%) accounts described aggression by coyotes toward red foxes. Eight accounts described free- ranging foxes known or presumed to have been killed by coyotes. In a September interaction, two coyotes were observed traveling together along a hay meadow when a fox took flight. The coyotes chased and quickly killed the fox. Later that day the observer found and examined another freshly killed fox in the same area; the fox had been bitten severely, presumably by coyotes. In a January interaction, tracks in snow showed two coyotes had chased and killed a fox but left it intact. In an April interaction, tracks in snow showed two coyotes pursued a fox (lactating female) into a shallow pond where it was caught, pulled to shore, and killed. The four other interactions each involved single, freshly killed male foxes found during September-February. Three of these were examined and each had multiple severe bites on various parts of the body. Seventeen accounts described trapped (leg-hold) or snared foxes killed by coyotes. Many of these foxes were described as mauled, ripped apart, or fed upon. Five accounts described single coyotes chasing single foxes. Two chases were in spring; dates of others were not provided. One chase was interrupted when the coyote (adult female) was shot. We received one account of a fight between a coyote and a fox. It occurred in January and was observed for about 10 min before being interrupted. The coyote repeatedly attempted to catch the fox by biting in the flanks but the fox escaped by jumping high and running. Examination of snow at the site of the fight revealed coyote and fox fur, and a trail of blood left by the fox. We received three accounts involving a total of eight fox pups found dead at or near six rearing dens foxes; all were believed to have been killed by coyotes. We found four of the pups, all on the same day, three dens located within 3 km of each other in an area believed to have been The dens continued being used by remaining live fox pups...."
Buckly
Well-Known Member
Coyotes will take every opportunity to kill a red fox. The red fox is a more exposed to coyotes because they’re more of an open habitat animal just like a coyote. Not including pup rearing the coyote has a range of about. a 5-8 day circle. The red fox has 2-3 day circle. So the chance their paths cross in somewhat open terrain makes them more susceptible.. the grey fox however prefers more woodland brush type habitat and pretty much stays in a small tighter area making itthem far less likely to bump into coyotes. A grey fox also has no problem climbing and or going into holes to hide in the brush, protecting them. The red fox on the other hand to their demise prefers to run out in the open or even try to hide right out in the open. Grey fox seem to be susceptible to a bunch of diseases like distemper and can hurt the populations for a long time. Either way the red and grey fox populations are cyclic and can vary for longs periods of time. From the reports I hear, the grey fox is starting to get into a population increase right now and also somewhat the red fox. Some would say it correlates with the rabbit and mouse populations. These are my thoughts
George
Well-Known Member
Yes, plenty. Better cover may be better cover for fox too.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Time to thin those yotes down a bit?
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
It is temporary at best unless done very intensely over a very wide area. You can probably have some impact on deer recruitment based on timing in a smaller area. Hitting them hard in the winter before spring fawning probably improves fawn survival. Enduring that fawning cover is in large blocks rather than narrow strips makes it harder for coyotes to hunt fawns. I chatted with a USDA wildlife biologist one day who had been working on a study that seemed to indicate removing certain males and certain times from the population can make females produce more pups with a higher percentage female. I'm not sure how that study ended as it was in process when we chatted, but it certainly complicates coyote management.
George
Well-Known Member
I couldn't thin enough to possibly not do harm. What's more, by killing the wrong or dominants you can get more roguish behavior out of what were subordinates. In my first 4 years here 5 or 6 does frequenting my property were lucky to get 1 fawn live till fall. Last year I had 4 or 5 fawns make it till fawn. Chainsaw, imazapyr, and fire have made this possible. Last summer as I waded through blackberries to kill tree of hell, I found tiny little deer beds in the middle of the thickest briar patches.
G
Native Hunter
Well-Known Member
More trees to climb would definitely be better for the Grey Foxes.
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Yes, our recruitment is down since the coyotes moved in.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
A USDA wildlife biologist is not necessarily a neutral source to quote, with the hidden agendas of more recent graduates tainting the reputation of all (more on the agenda later).
Coyotes are not mythical creatures that can appear at will, they are flesh and blood that either exist or they don't. Just like deer herd reduction, if eliminated they cease to exist and there aren't any more. The idea of an unlimited resupply like a Greek Hydra is beyond factual. When we're talking about reducing, serious wildlife managers are thinking on a different scale than the people that talk about others moving in to take their place.
My friend thought he had a problem of around six or eight coyotes, he took out 21 over 3 months time on 400 acres with a thermal, however, after that his fun was over, there were no more. No more at all for several years.
Yes, taking a few over a few weeks time is nibbling around the edges and could make the coyote problem worse (or better). But that's not what we're talking about, when people in my circles are talking about it being time to reduce coyote numbers. Solutions where there just aren't any more left are very possible, and last a long time. Unfortunately, today's wildlife biologists don't want to hear this because they are being taught in school that predators aren't the problem, they are the solution. And many liberals are buying into this.
But the pioneers that settled this country sure didn't share these beliefs. They shot the predators and ate the game to survive. Now predators eat the game animals, and hunting probably won't survive. Which is the hidden agenda.
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
No hidden agenda here. She was working on her PHD and involved personally in the study. Coyotes were not an issue at my place at that time. It was just a side discussion. She wasn't pushing any point of view. She spoke as a scientist hedging her bets saying this is just one emerging study. She took no hard position on anything. She was there to help us establish an EQIP cost share program for firebreaks and controlled burns.
