Ohio 500 ac

[Warner32]

Alright guys this is my first post on here. Yes I am another one of the QDMA transfers and I recognize some of the same guys on here that have made the transfer as well.. I have learned sooo much from all of you that I have been following that I decided to finally post and keep up with all the updates you guys have made on your habitats. I don't comment a lot on other guys threads and I apologize but believe me I do follow them closely. Busy time in my life right now so I barely have enough time to update my own thread haha which is why its taken me this long to finally transfer some pics over...

But for the guys on here that have been on here for a while let me say hello and hope to hear your input and see your habitat improvements and learn from you guys as well!

Here we go.. Ill start out by saying I hunt 500 acres in Ohio since I was 4 years old. I do not own the land but maybe own some of it someday. The landowner is a good friend of the families and has aloud us to hunt along with many other things habitat wise we would like to do. He is open to a lot of different ideas to help out the land to harvest deer. There is a lot of land here that I am very fortunate to hunt but it needs some improvements.. Im going to start by posting a lot of pictures of just the land

Rough estimate of property lines.. As you can see a lot of Timber with a few little fields

Box Blind is circled in one of our small plots

Red dot is another box blind over looking our biggest food

 

[Warner32]

We put in soybean by hand for the first time this year with a plot screen for entrance and exit.. came in great but the deer hammered it

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[Warner32]

Here are some of the bucks from the property the last couple of years

My little brother holding a stud shed

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[Warner32]

Here are some of the bucks we have harvested at this property

A buck my cousin shot this year... We predicted this deer to be atleast 7... have seen him for years! Old ghost finally slipped up

The buck I shot last year with my bow

This year we put in more work than we ever have... put in a nice small kill plot with brassica and mixed in clover and alfalfa as well as an underneath plot invade the deer were browsing heavy on the radish before it matured... I'm glad I did.

I ended up killing one of our 5 year olds out of this plot during rut he came in scent checking some does... had sheds from this buck the year before

We had a great year! Even got my wife her first deer ever! And with a compound all in video! Sooo proud of her couldn't believe it!

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[OkieKubota]

Welcome aboard and I remember you from the QDMA board.

I am moving your post to the Land Tours section as we are set up just a little different than QDMA with some really great features like tap a talk and such...

 

[Warner32]

Welcome aboard and I remember you from the QDMA board.

I am moving your post to the Land Tours section as we are set up just a little different than QDMA with some really great features like tap a talk and such...

Thank you I appreciate it! Yea I wasn't real sure where to post this but yes I have noticed it is much easier to post on this forum!


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[dogdoc]

dang dude---With the size of those mature bucks you have, I think we should be asking you the questions!

beautiful piece of property (got a pretty hunting partner also!)

welcome to the forum
todd

 

[dtabor]

Welcome! I was following your posts over at the other board. Glad to see you make the move here!

 

[Combat Infidel]

Wow looks like you have a great area


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[lakngolf]

Whatever you are doing, keep it up. Your results speak for themselves!

 

[dogghr]

I remember you thread from the other forum. Always loved the place. Looks like your work is paying off. Welcome aboard.

 

[Warner32]

dang dude---With the size of those mature bucks you have, I think we should be asking you the questions!

beautiful piece of property (got a pretty hunting partner also!)

welcome to the forum
todd

Hahaha! Thank you yea she is hooked now! But also a bit spoiled! Told her it may be a while before she has a chance at another buck like that!


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[Warner32]

Thank you guys for the kind words! And thanks for remembering my thread before.. I learned a lot from all of you guys on the other forum and put in a lot of work last spring and summer on this property.. and yes it paid off this season... nothing feels better than harvesting a deer you worked your tail off to bring in stay on your property.. and watch him utilize your hard work


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[Warner32]

Supplemental Feeding?

Alright I would like to hear some opinions on is it really worth it to try and supplemental feed during late winter spring and summer with a high protein diet? I am planning on purchasing a couple nozzle feeders and putting in a high protein grain... also throwing out some protein deer blocks as well

Anyone have much luck with it? Would really like to see an increase in some antler growth next year... a lot of bucks on this property just don't put on the inches year to year and wanted to see if adding some protein for them to eat will help

Here is an example... buck I shot this year compared to his shed the previous year.. he was probably 3 or 4 last year and was hoping for a big jump this year but just didn't happen.. we keep pretty close tabs on our deer with cameras and we notice this with a lot of them

Pretty much zero AG in the area so they do not get the nutrition farmland deer would


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[dgallow]

To get the most benefit from a supplement program, there are a few pre-requisites which need to be in place before you start. I don't want to sway you either way....just get you to thinking along the lines advantages/disadvantages and limitations.

Do you have absolute control over buck age structure and deer density? Are you willing to shoot 1 or maybe no bucks on the property each season? If not, then supplemental feeding is not going to be the answer for your desired antler potential.

On most free-range properties the major limitations to antler growth are 1) buck age, 2) deer density effects on prevalence of preferred high quality native forage, 3) the quantity of preferred high quality native forage available to deer year round, and 4) deer density mediated effects on genetic expression of body size and antler growth potential. It takes well over 10 years to begin to reverse those effects alone...not to mention weather trend setback that will occur a long the way! As ex, the right amount and timing of rainfall alone compared to wet or dry years can yield a 10-15" jump in antler score across a herd.

Your money may be better spent....reducing doe density, increasing buck age structure and buck to doe ratio, and undertaking native land management steps which increase the quantity of high quality preferred native plants available year round, and use food plots to address native forage limitations. Then in 10 years if the antler potential is close to what it should be for your area, then consider supplement to further increase potential.

Baker is a good friend of mine.....he has been doing intensive deer management for 25+ years....including supplement program....and I have seen the effects of his entire program and age structure and antler potential....it works....but they don't all jump every year!. He would be a good one to talk with about this.....infrequently visits this forum as 'baker'....send him a PM.

 

[Warner32]

Thanks I appreciate the information! You bring up some very good points!

We have about as much control as 500 acres of free ranging deer will allow you... we keep pretty close tabs on all of our deer running about 15 cameras year round on bait stations.... I hunt in Southern Ohio so you are only aloud 1 buck a year here anyways...
As far as deer Denisty here it is actually pretty low right now.. but our Buck to doe ratio is excellent it very easily could be 1:1.. If we were to take an average of camera pictures I would argue we have more pictures of buck this entire season as we do does

This season btw 6 guys we have shot 2 bucks and only 1 doe... the bucks that were shot were both 140 class deer.. one was a 4 or 5 year old and the other we know for a fact was atleast 7... and we know the ages based on pictures of them from previous years

We do have some better genetics in the area but it has been about 4 years since we have had a booner on our property that we know of



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[Warner32]

To get the most benefit from a supplement program, there are a few pre-requisites which need to be in place before you start. I don't want to sway you either way....just get you to thinking along the lines advantages/disadvantages and limitations.

Do you have absolute control over buck age structure and deer density? Are you willing to shoot 1 or maybe no bucks on the property each season? If not, then supplemental feeding is not going to be the answer for your desired antler potential.

On most free-range properties the major limitations to antler growth are 1) buck age, 2) deer density effects on prevalence of preferred high quality native forage, 3) the quantity of preferred high quality native forage available to deer year round, and 4) deer density mediated effects on genetic expression of body size and antler growth potential. It takes well over 10 years to begin to reverse those effects alone...not to mention weather trend setback that will occur a long the way! As ex, the right amount and timing of rainfall alone compared to wet or dry years can yield a 10-15" jump in antler score across a herd.

Your money may be better spent....reducing doe density, increasing buck age structure and buck to doe ratio, and undertaking native land management steps which increase the quantity of high quality preferred native plants available year round, and use food plots to address native forage limitations. Then in 10 years if the antler potential is close to what it should be for your area, then consider supplement to further increase potential.

Baker is a good friend of mine.....he has been doing intensive deer management for 25+ years....including supplement program....and I have seen the effects of his entire program and age structure and antler potential....it works....but they don't all jump every year!. He would be a good one to talk with about this.....infrequently visits this forum as 'baker'....send him a PM.

But it would definitely be Interesting to see if it would even be worth putting out some sort of protein supplement.. I know it wouldn't hurt but don't know if it would really change much


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[dgallow]

Thanks I appreciate the information! You bring up some very good points!

We have about as much control as 500 acres of free ranging deer will allow you... we keep pretty close tabs on all of our deer running about 15 cameras year round on bait stations.... I hunt in Southern Ohio so you are only aloud 1 buck a year here anyways...
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Looks like you have good basal mass in the pic. The short tines are what I see common in the 'fescue belt' of the east central US....don't know if that is a caveat of cool season forage dominance or soils.....see longer tines in areas more dominant in warm season rangeland. Sometimes it is just the deer genetics...we have some like that that carry short tines through age.

Would you be happy seeing 2 booners in 10 years on your property? I think that is a reasonable goal for the Midwest.

The control part is where baker ran into problems and likely the same thing you will face....and it is what keeps us from feeding protein (a second point to me being a tight wad). Without full control (a high fence) it can be very difficult to get the age structure and epigenetic tweak needed for large antler management....neighbors will figure you out real quick! At 10 feeders (1 per 50 acres), feeding 36 out of 52 weeks (no feed Sept 1 to Dec 31), two 50 lb bags/feeder/wk, $15/50 lb for feed.....that is a $10,800 annual feed bill! Density may be low now but when you start feeding, density will increase and you may need 4 bags/feeder/week. What I am trying to say here is that done properly this can be quite expensive (as are any forms of confined animal management feeding).....and you are gambling the neighbors don't catch on and start hunting fence lines and knocking down the age ladder, especially the high potential 2s and 3s (that happens here often and a second stance I have against protein feeding).

IF booners are say a one in 10 year occurance in your area now, then I can say with reasonable certainty that if you simply undertake wise large scale native habitat improvements (TSI, clearcut openings in woodlands, prescribed fire, convert tame pasture to diverse rangeland, etc) combined with ample summer and fall plot acreage, you could increase the large antlered deer frequency to 1 in 5 years....in about a 10 year time frame. $10,000 per year for 3 years should be plenty money to do what all that is needed initially for the native stuff and plots....especially if you can get enrolled with NRSC for TSI cost share! Tweaking the native lands takes more time than money...you may have to buy that time in the form of labor if fully employed! The harvest part is just mental and good communication with each other....keeping buck harvest rate under 20% of what is available will get you good age classes....keeping pressure on does spares native food reserves for growing antlers and fatter residual does. Permanent water in another thing worth mentioning....a 1/4 ac pond in timber can create a hub of secure deer movement from bed to feed.....cost about $2 per yard to construct a 1400 yard pond.

There are some Texans close to me who brought in their blinds, protein feeders etc into this country....but haven't done squat to improve plant diversity and complexity of native lands nor plant foodplots nor knock back the does nor control livestock grazing....they just feed, pull cards, and sit....they still complain of pencil mass on antlers and are lucky to harvest 130 class bucks. From experience, pencil mass is simply due to too many deer for too long on degraded land with low native plant diversity and complexity. When they look at bucks we take they can't believe the mass we see on antlers and they can't believe we don't feed protein! These days I don't hear them brag at all about feeding protein and it is very likely only corn now fills the feeders! What they don't realize is that we turned around the pencil mass issue inside 10 years!

What I am trying to convey here is that a feed program without all the prerequisites done first is not going to do much for your long term goals....and is likely to create some new frustrations you didn't see coming! Think about all sides of the issue before pulling the trigger...you'll come out wiser and more blessed!

 

[CAS_HNTR]

To be honest, the areas in Ohio you are hunting have good genetics but the steep terrain and lack of crops will always be a handicap when it comes to producing monster racks consistently. You simple wont ever have the ability to let deer eat all summer on vast soybean fields and/or extensive area of "good" pasture.

One advantage you will have is the ability to offer cover and new growth, plus some good plots to help them along. As mentioned.....age, age, age....that is your friend. Offering large areas of browse in the form of timber cuts and/or a diverse variety of plants in a fallow field will be the best for the deer. Plots will never feed deer like 1000 ac of corn/beans but are a good supplement.

Focus on timber cuts and improving fescue fields....those are my thoughts.

 

[wbpdeer]

Warner32

Congrats on a great season. Your land has many mature bucks and most of us would kill for what you are enjoying. Your wife's buck is a super first deer. I would say continue with the food plots and improve what you have started. I have not reading enough to know if you have pears and apple trees.

Improve your timber some by getting rid of trash and add bedding areas where you can. Like DogDoc said, we should be watching what you are doing.

Obvious you have a great farm - improve it some and keep the hunting pressure as low as you can.

Thanks for sharing.

Glad to see you found our forum.

Wayne